Noah and Gilgamesh

[Clizby WampusCat]

So I finally read the Epic of Gilgamesh (EoG) and the flood story at the end. I always heard it was similar to the Noah story and it was written prior to the Noah story. Atrahasis was another similar story prior to the Noah account.

EoG written ~ 2100 BCE
Noah Story written ~1400 BCE
Arathasis story written before 1600 BCE, probably prior to 2100 BCE

Here are some examples:

EoG: I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a swallow and released it.
The swallow went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Bible: After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth. He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.

------------------------

EoG: Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed
(a sheep).
I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat.
Seven and seven cult vessels I put in place,
and (into the fire) underneath (or: into their bowls) I poured
reeds, cedar, and myrtle.
The gods smelled the savor,
the gods smelled the sweet savor,

Bible: So Noah came out, together with his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives. All the animals and all the creatures that move along the ground and all the birds—everything that moves on land—came out of the ark, one kind after another. Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma...

------------------------

EoG:On Mt. Nimush the boat lodged firm,
Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing no sway.

Bible: The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.


So why are there very similar accounts prior to the Noah account. If you say that they all were written after the flood then ok, but how do you know which account or God is the correct one? It seem most likely that the story was updated to jive with the new single God concept, not that it actually happened.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

So why are there very similar accounts prior to the Noah account. If you say that they all were written after the flood then ok, but how do you know which account or God is the correct one? It seem most likely that the story was updated to jive with the new single God concept, not that it actually happened.

They are similar accounts because the Bible, especially Genesis is a Near Eastern book, that reflects that kind of culture. It's funny you should mention this because I was just starting today a project of Bible commentary where I foot note how the text reflects its native culture etc. and how it often does so to make some subtle and not so subtle social commentary based on the various allusions, tropes, etc. of those previous known stories.


Anyway right now I am working on how early Genesis comments on the other Creation myths of the Near East.

 

[Andrewn]

EoG: Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed
(a sheep).
I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat.

What really amazes me is that all peoples offered sacrifices to their gods. How did they get the idea that gods like the smell and blood of sacrifices?

Is this a universal unconscious archetype? Or is it a command of God as the OT presents sacrifices?

 

[HTacianas]

So I finally read the Epic of Gilgamesh (EoG) and the flood story at the end. I always heard it was similar to the Noah story and it was written prior to the Noah story. Atrahasis was another similar story prior to the Noah account.

EoG written ~ 2100 BCE
Noah Story written ~1400 BCE
Arathasis story written before 1600 BCE, probably prior to 2100 BCE

Here are some examples:

EoG: I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a swallow and released it.
The swallow went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Bible: After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth. He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.

------------------------

EoG: Then I sent out everything in all directions and sacrificed
(a sheep).
I offered incense in front of the mountain-ziggurat.
Seven and seven cult vessels I put in place,
and (into the fire) underneath (or: into their bowls) I poured
reeds, cedar, and myrtle.
The gods smelled the savor,
the gods smelled the sweet savor,

Bible: So Noah came out, together with his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives. All the animals and all the creatures that move along the ground and all the birds—everything that moves on land—came out of the ark, one kind after another. Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma...

------------------------

EoG:On Mt. Nimush the boat lodged firm,
Mt. Nimush held the boat, allowing no sway.

Bible: The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.


So why are there very similar accounts prior to the Noah account. If you say that they all were written after the flood then ok, but how do you know which account or God is the correct one? It seem most likely that the story was updated to jive with the new single God concept, not that it actually happened.

It's likely the same story told from different perspectives.

 

[Halbhh]

So why are there very similar accounts prior to the Noah account.

Actually, having a lot of accounts about an event, like an volcanic eruption, large earthquake, huge regional flood, etc....would tend to suggest the event was a real event. So, diverse stories about something don't suggest it didn't happen, but instead suggest it did happen.

As to which tradition is 'correct', if you were to only want a non-believer point of view with some insight, you'd best be served to at least get what Joseph Campbell offers -- about how these metaphorical stories are formed to convey truths about how to live life. They are practical, working as metaphor, for real life. Is that familiar sounding to you? If not, you might find Joseph Campbell a good next step, to learn more about how stories work. He did a series of 6 interview with Bill Moyers that are quite helpful in showing how stories convey truths about living life. Even a non believer can learn that level of understanding, the basic correct understanding of how stories work to convey deep truths about how to live life.

But, for me, being a very practical person, I wanted to not only understand how stories work, but to get something more valuable here and now. One obvious way to learn about how much validity there is in any wisdom tradition/system of ideas is to test the ideas, by trying them out, to see what happens: do the ideas work better than competing ideas, when put into practice?