No US fighting during WWII

[Tiger Lily]

The American soldiers were the laughingstock of the entire war. The germans laughed at their poor training, the brits didn't think it would cause much of a difference, and well, they weren't reverred at all. And not for no reason neither. The quality of the American military training was poor at best. Still is in many ways. Your elite soldiers are beaten in most NATO exercises by Norwegian conscripts!
What you do have which makes your military strong is manpower, technology, and that's it. You still lack training.

That is a terrible insult considering our soldiers had little time to train to your high standards before being sent to Europe to die or be wounded there during WWII. They did amazing things with what they had. The war was won, what more do you think there should have been? I don't think you even know what you're talking about at all. You just seem to enjoy the insults.

 

[Tiger Lily]

I agree 100% with you mate. It's as if America is the guardian angel of the world and expressions like 'our oceans' only make Europeans roll their eyes. It's often asked why Europeans don't like Americans....welll...

I've never even heard that "our oceans" before. That is all mostly International waters out in the oceans. We only claim what is immediately off our shores. Either get your facts straight...or either that, you were listening to someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

 

[constance]

The National Socialism Movements (most notable are Nazis) are disavowed by all other Socialist movements. While they chose to label themselves "Socialist", they are more closely fascists(although really more a statolatry).

Socialism is not a "Bad Thing" (TM)

Constance

 

[Tiger Lily]

Before everyone jumps all over faith guardian, I want to point something out. If Norway is anything like Petersburg, the kind of Americans we get over there are not the people you'd want representing your country, guys. Most Americans I encountered not in the US were company-man expatriots who never bothered to learn the language and complain all the time about the local people. I had very few interactions with Americans besides listening to them shouting at waitstaff in English. It is very easy to start to think that all Americans are like that, arrogant, rude. So perhaps instead of busting out the angry-face icon, people ought, you know, try to CHANGE his opinion of American behaviour?

The arrogant person called faith guardian isn't worth our time, I'm afraid. He sounds like he has set his opinion against us. I don't understand that kind of harsh judgmentalism without knowing the facts. Perhaps he should do some reading about what really happened in WWII, then talk with some sense.

 

[TheReasoner]

You have some screwy history books! Nazis were Socialists.

Well, we're socialistic too. But definately neither nazistic nor fascistic.
You can't call fascism socialism. Fascism is fascism. Check the definition:

fas·cism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle.]

You can say Hitler's rule was socialistic, but to claim that it was socialism... That's to take it too far. Socialism in itself is not fascistic. It does not have anything in common with nazism.

 

[TheReasoner]

I've never even heard that "our oceans" before. That is all mostly International waters out in the oceans. We only claim what is immediately off our shores. Either get your facts straight...or either that, you were listening to someone who didn't know what they were talking about.

Sure. I know that, I'm sure he does too. But that is not what many Americans tell, on the web and otherwise. What you claim politically, and what some Americans claim with statements are often very different things.

 

[redkingjoe]

Hitler was a Nazi. A Nazi is a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparteip or National Socialist German Workers Party.

See Nazi Ideology

National Socialist Program in particular the German Party Platform and Austrian Party Platform.

See also Branches of Socialism

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparteip or National Socialist German Workers Party are just names. similarly, a guy studying in "National Elite School" might not be elite at all.

Socialist are not racists

 

[TheReasoner]

That is a terrible insult considering our soldiers had little time to train to your high standards before being sent to Europe to die or be wounded there during WWII. They did amazing things with what they had. The war was won, what more do you think there should have been? I don't think you even know what you're talking about at all. You just seem to enjoy the insults.

Our high standars?
The Norwegian army was a bunch of ragtags. We had only gained our freedom a few years earlier, then the Germans invaded, and we didn't even get to mobilize properly. Yeah, we made many mistakes prior to the war. And yes, many Norwegians did join the nazis. Many French did too. And many Americans for that matter were supporters of Hitler. That is nothing to be proud of. Nor is Quisling anything to be proud of.

I don't say what I say to insult. I felt very much insulted, and reacted with anger, as you do now. It is like spitting in our face to claim we'd have lost without you. It feels as if you claim we would have been the third reich had you not come. That the war was won because of you. It was not. We'd have won without you. Ofcourse this would have caused a lot of huge problems we'd have felt today. The borders around would be different, beating Hitler would be tougher, the war would have cost a lot more lives. And the American economy would not have gotten the strength it has. After all, while the Marshall help - which was a Godsend at that time - was a huge help to us, do not forget that it was also a huge help to you.

So. In essence I am saying; Yes we needed your help. And thank you for coming to our aid when we needed it. But I am also saying that please, pretty please, don't assume we'll grovel and wash your feet with our hair because of it. Yes, what you did then was good. But it does not cover up for these issues. Don't assume it will cover up for Bush's "you're either with us or against us". The world is not USA. The world does not love the USA. The USA is coming across to us as very very arrogant. It is coming across as very self righteous, and very pompous. The US is in fact coming across as a bully and a wiseguy of a nation. While I know many Americans who prove to be very different from this generalization, you do need to show a different face outwards. Because what you show now. And what your country does now - military wise - will cause more and more hatred. None of us wants that, right?

 

[Redneck]

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparteip or National Socialist German Workers Party are just names. similarly, a guy studying in "National Elite School" might not be elite at all.

Socialist are not racists

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Link

Ok. What was the ideology of the NSDAP?

"Collective or government ownership of means of production and distribution of goods." -That seems to be a key concept of socialism.

What does the program of the NSDAP say about that?

We demand that the State take over all large businesses, such as trusts.

So they demanded that the government take over all large businesses. Ok. That's part of the means of production.

We demand profit sharing in large concerns.

Part of the abolition of private property.

The State must provide for improvement of public health by protecting mothers and children, ending child labor, and supporting health education for the young.

Don't many socialist European countries have something similar to that?

We demand a ruthless struggle against profiteers, who must be punished with death.

Part of the government regulation of means of production.

We demand that all war profits be taken over by the State.

That also falls under government regulation of means of production.

Link

 

[TheReasoner]

Redneck:

What makes socialistic democracy bad?

 

[TheReasoner]

The arrogant person called faith guardian isn't worth our time, I'm afraid. He sounds like he has set his opinion against us. I don't understand that kind of harsh judgmentalism without knowing the facts. Perhaps he should do some reading about what really happened in WWII, then talk with some sense.

Hm. Thanks. Yeah. I like being spat on.
I did go to school you know. And I did serve in the army. Both places receiving pretty thorough information on WW2. Plus from my grandparents who worked for the resistance. What facts do you feel I missed out on Tiger Lilly?

 

[Redneck]

Redneck:

What makes socialistic democracy bad?

The tragedy of the commons.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Well, we're socialistic too. But definately neither nazistic nor fascistic.
You can't call fascism socialism. Fascism is fascism. Check the definition:


You can say Hitler's rule was socialistic, but to claim that it was socialism... That's to take it too far. Socialism in itself is not fascistic. It does not have anything in common with nazism.

Socialism has always failed. That much you can see thoughout history.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Hm. Thanks. Yeah. I like being spat on.
I did go to school you know. And I did serve in the army. Both places receiving pretty thorough information on WW2. Plus from my grandparents who worked for the resistance. What facts do you feel I missed out on Tiger Lilly?

You seem to have a pretty set opinion about us, and doubtful you really care, faith guardian. Why should anyone even talk to you? You insult us, and even find fault with our soldiers who fought during WWII like they were a bunch of idiots, and try to set up an intelligent dialog here after that? I don't even want to talk to you until you "get off your high horse," (as you put it.) America shed a lot of blood during WWII, and if you have no respect for that either, then God help you. Hitler had a well-prepared war machine which America was not prepared for. If our Army looked underpowered in the beginning of the war, it was. That is no reason to make fun of them. It just proved we were not a warring society. We still aren't, in spite of what you think we look like. We have an all volunteer Army at this time.

Socialism is a dangerous form of government with no checks and balances, and it has proven to be so down through history. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to make the same mistakes." Socialism is one gigantic welfare system with nothing to support it, it will eventually fail and collapse upon itself. Socialism has always proved itself totalitarian in nature sooner or later. Oh sure, they "sugar coat" it in the beginning, and then it grows rather monsterous when it is too late to do anything about it. Your anti-Americanism really shows, as socialists despise democracy, so therefore we are the target for you. It appears your schooling has caused you to be deluded about a lot of things, and I'm really getting tired of that. Sure, point your fingers at us and call us "uninformed" or whatever, but at least we have the freedom to think for ourselves in the U. S.

 

[marshlewis]

Ever heard of 'The Holy Roman Empire' It was none of those things.
Ever heard of The democratic republic of Germany. That was east germany under the soviets.
The Nazis were another example of where the name does not fit the reality. and thats just german examples.

 

[Milla]

Socialism has always failed. That much you can see thoughout history.

Oddly, I hadn't noticed Scandanavia dissolving into poverty and war.

 

[marielle]

Oddly, I hadn't noticed Scandanavia dissolving into poverty and war.

Big deal. What about the rest of it? China isn't either at the moment, but watch out. Also watch out for North Korea. With all of the abuse Europeans like to lob at the Americans, if it keeps going on, see if we care if some fascist country decides to take over Europe again. I hope it doesn't come to that, but ...it looks like it is taking that direction. You won't have any friends left after a while.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Sure. I know that, I'm sure he does too. But that is not what many Americans tell, on the web and otherwise. What you claim politically, and what some Americans claim with statements are often very different things.

You are mistaken. When we say "our oceans" in conversations, we are talking about all people, all nations...collective "our" ...not as a possession of the U.S. You clearly read more into what is said than is necessary.

 

[Tiger Lily]

many Americans for that matter were supporters of Hitler.

Not that many.

I don't say what I say to insult.

But you did, extremely so.

Our high standars?
It is like spitting in our face to claim we'd have lost without you.

I never said that. It is hard to speculate such a thing.

But I am also saying that please, pretty please, don't assume we'll grovel and wash your feet with our hair because of it.

I never said that, and I wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth.

Don't assume it will cover up for Bush's "you're either with us or against us". The world is not USA. The world does not love the USA. The USA is coming across to us as very very arrogant. It is coming across as very self righteous, and very pompous. The US is in fact coming across as a bully and a wiseguy of a nation. While I know many Americans who prove to be very different from this generalization, you do need to show a different face outwards. Because what you show now. And what your country does now - military wise - will cause more and more hatred. None of us wants that, right?

Yeah, right. Blame Americans for everything. We're the world's scapegoat now.

The fact is the U. S. economy suffered greatly during the war. It wasn't until post WWII that the ecomony picked up and became strong. So don't give me that, either, that if it wasn't for the war we wouldn't be what we are today. That's a bunch of baloney.

 

[but'n'ben]

Socialism is a dangerous form of government with no checks and balances, and it has proven to be so down through history. Socialism is one gigantic welfare system with nothing to support it, it will eventually fail and collapse upon itself. Socialism has always proved itself totalitarian in nature sooner or later.

Er, no. Communism is. They are both very different. Let's not immediately link socialism with fascism.