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No Such Thing As Homophobia!
- Thread starter ShieldOFaith
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TeddyKGB
A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude
- Jul 18, 2005
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One could make the case that hatred of anything is irrational, but I digress.
Hatred of homosexual behavior becomes irrational when actions against it occur far out of proportion with actions against other "sins." Movements to prevent gay marriage are rampant at all levels of government. But how many times have you heard the same people call for a constitutional amendment preventing obese people from going to McDonald's?
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"What about any deeply religious person who experiences personal awakenings while worshiping a God who seems to have communicated the sinful nature of racial equality?"
- Just as the deeply religious person that is against homosexuality for religious reasons, the person you describe is not necessarily against racial equality because of fear and hate.
It is almost as simple-minded as bigotry to think, "All forms of disapproval over this issue are rooted in fear and hate." For one thing, you are now proposing a dogma yourself, and making two claims most dogmatists make: 1) "I am infallible about my decision concerning this matter." 2) "This law I am infallible about applies to every situation that could possibly exist."
You don't see how simple-minded that is?
I'm not defending homophobia OR disapproval of homosexuality. I think both ways of thinking, whether they occur together or apart (for instance, the homophobic person who's irrational fear of gay people is acknowledged by the person to be irrational, the homophobic person who actually approves of the gay lifestyle), are an irrational way of thinking.
I think the vast majority of racists are hate-filled. We don't, however, use the term "race-a-phobe" to describe them. And that's not to say some racism isn't rooted in misinformation, and purely an irrational prejudism free of hatred. You can indoctrinate an EXTREMELY peaceful person to be philosophically against a particular race without feeling hatred or fear, if you have long enuf to brainwash the poor fellow.
Do I think propaganda exists in support of homosexuality? Yes, we'r a propaganda society, in my eyes. Anti-racism and anti-drug propaganda exist too... Every time you watch a movie, or a television show, or a commercial, that stimulates your emotional faculty rather than your reasoning faculty to get you to support something, you'r viewing a type of propaganda. I don't think that sort of viewings should be banned - it's often art. But I thinking we need to be stimulating the reasoning faculty, and defeating emotional bias in viewers, more than we have in the past, as a culture.
BigBadWolf, I'm a very patient man but I feel I'v noticed a tendency in you to force anything you see to warp, just slightly, so it fits into what your tunnel-vision wants you to see. I could say this to almost anybody, including myself, but I think you see the evidence that supports your conclusions... more clearly than the rest of the evidence.
- Just as the deeply religious person that is against homosexuality for religious reasons, the person you describe is not necessarily against racial equality because of fear and hate.
It is almost as simple-minded as bigotry to think, "All forms of disapproval over this issue are rooted in fear and hate." For one thing, you are now proposing a dogma yourself, and making two claims most dogmatists make: 1) "I am infallible about my decision concerning this matter." 2) "This law I am infallible about applies to every situation that could possibly exist."
You don't see how simple-minded that is?
I'm not defending homophobia OR disapproval of homosexuality. I think both ways of thinking, whether they occur together or apart (for instance, the homophobic person who's irrational fear of gay people is acknowledged by the person to be irrational, the homophobic person who actually approves of the gay lifestyle), are an irrational way of thinking.
I think the vast majority of racists are hate-filled. We don't, however, use the term "race-a-phobe" to describe them. And that's not to say some racism isn't rooted in misinformation, and purely an irrational prejudism free of hatred. You can indoctrinate an EXTREMELY peaceful person to be philosophically against a particular race without feeling hatred or fear, if you have long enuf to brainwash the poor fellow.
Do I think propaganda exists in support of homosexuality? Yes, we'r a propaganda society, in my eyes. Anti-racism and anti-drug propaganda exist too... Every time you watch a movie, or a television show, or a commercial, that stimulates your emotional faculty rather than your reasoning faculty to get you to support something, you'r viewing a type of propaganda. I don't think that sort of viewings should be banned - it's often art. But I thinking we need to be stimulating the reasoning faculty, and defeating emotional bias in viewers, more than we have in the past, as a culture.
BigBadWolf, I'm a very patient man but I feel I'v noticed a tendency in you to force anything you see to warp, just slightly, so it fits into what your tunnel-vision wants you to see. I could say this to almost anybody, including myself, but I think you see the evidence that supports your conclusions... more clearly than the rest of the evidence.
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The obese people are not trying to destroy the country by trying to get special rights in committing their sins.
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Homosexuals aren't trying to get "special rights" either.
personally, if I decided to marry another man, i wouldn't care if the government recognized my marriage or not because I'm an anarchist.
but if you recognize the rights of citizens of your country to marry, and that's really all i think the homosexuals want aside from getting bigots to stop throwing glass bottles into their faces and beating them up and killing them,
you should recognize the rights of citizens of your country to marry the way they so choose, not the way your religious dogma tells you they should.
personally, if I decided to marry another man, i wouldn't care if the government recognized my marriage or not because I'm an anarchist.
but if you recognize the rights of citizens of your country to marry, and that's really all i think the homosexuals want aside from getting bigots to stop throwing glass bottles into their faces and beating them up and killing them,
you should recognize the rights of citizens of your country to marry the way they so choose, not the way your religious dogma tells you they should.
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TeddyKGB
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My statement required no qualification, but here you go trying to score cheap points. Tres classy.
Perhaps you'll be forced to agree that the government's campaign against trans-fats is hardly in the same league as the religious right's jihad against homosexuality.
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TeddyKGB
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When you use strictly religious terminology within the context of a political argument, you lose immediately. The government can neither permit nor prohibit "sin."
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StarCannon
Warmaster
They're just trying to get their unions recognized by a secular government. Is that so hard to understand?
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Polycarp1
Born-again Liberal Episcopalian
I don't think the law should be used to enforce the beliefs of some religious group, no matter how small or large. And this is probably good, because can you imagine how many people who state they are Christian would be arrested for violating the commandments on how to treat your neighbor and how to do unto others? The jails would be full to bursting.
To get back to the OP, though, I think it's been made quite clear that the term "homophobia" is used to refer to a particular syndrome of behaviors that do not match what the etymology of the term might suggest. But this is only in keeping with the English language's tendency to adapt terminology to meet its needs. Consider that the person who posted the OP is "Shield of Faith." Now, shields are made of metal, formerly of wood and/or leather, and cannot post on the internet. Faith is an abstract concept, from which a shield cannot be fabricated. And even if one could manufacture a shield out of faith, it would be unable to post on the internet. But, we understand that the human being who posts under that name adopted it in reference to the fact that faith is a shield of the believer in a quite real metaphorical sense -- just as 'homophobia' refers to a set of behaviors that are not a 'phobia' in the strict psychopathological sense.
To get back to the OP, though, I think it's been made quite clear that the term "homophobia" is used to refer to a particular syndrome of behaviors that do not match what the etymology of the term might suggest. But this is only in keeping with the English language's tendency to adapt terminology to meet its needs. Consider that the person who posted the OP is "Shield of Faith." Now, shields are made of metal, formerly of wood and/or leather, and cannot post on the internet. Faith is an abstract concept, from which a shield cannot be fabricated. And even if one could manufacture a shield out of faith, it would be unable to post on the internet. But, we understand that the human being who posts under that name adopted it in reference to the fact that faith is a shield of the believer in a quite real metaphorical sense -- just as 'homophobia' refers to a set of behaviors that are not a 'phobia' in the strict psychopathological sense.
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