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No such thing as an ex-Christian

Reformationist

Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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Beanieboy, for your consideration:

1 John 2:19,20
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.

If this doesn't answer your question, then nothing will. The leaving, to not return, is brought to light to remind those with genuine faith that true believers do not fully and finally depart from faith, for faith never fails. If someone leaves to never return, believers needn't be troubled, for their apostacy evidences a lack of genuine faith.

God bless
 
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Open

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What is key to salvation? I assume that is what we are ultimately talking about here....
John 3:16 would say belief.
Yet deamons believe.
My understanding is salvation is through faith.
Faith in what, or indeed whom?
Scripture says Christ and his sacrifice.
Surely this is the cornerstone of salvation.
Are not all other matters are 'add ons'?:scratch:
 
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Reformationist

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There is more to being a Christian than an outward display of complicity. As I stated in post 21, those who are Christ's never fully and finally lose faith. Most of us know that there are times when our faith appears unshakeable. Other times, less so. It is not our obedience to the Law that makes us Christians. We are followers of Christ because of a change in our constituent nature, a change that was wrought in us from above. The Lord not only changes our nature such that we willingly, though imperfectly, submit to Him as both Lord and Savior, He indwells us and never abandons us, always strengthening us lest we fully falter. We see an example of the preservatory nature of our relationship with God in the story of Peter's thrice denial of Christ. Peter returned not because of some natural loyalty and solidarity. He returned because Christ Himself made intercession on his behalf:

Luke 22:31,32
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

We read that Peter did, indeed, reject the Lord in his flesh. It was, however, the will of God that Peter's faith not fail and so it was the Lord who preserved Peter. Peter proved that, of himself, he was easy prey for satan.

That is one of the most beautiful elements of God's role in the life of those He sets apart. He does not leave them to work out their own salvation, for to do so would be to consign all believers to merit only condemnation. In our own strength, we will fail. Thanks be to the Lord that, due to His preservation, the saints of God, the true saints of God shall persevere. It is for this very reason that God's response to those who presume that a mere outward compliance with the mandates of God suffices for true faith will be, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (Matt 7:21-23)
 
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Reformationist

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thanks :) I think its very powerful and goes right to the core of the matter whether one is or has ever been saved.

Content of the video aside, why is it that preachers always talk like that? These big congregation preachers like Joel Osteen always have these ridiculously pregnant pauses and overexagerated wispers. It's like they're trying out for a part in a major motion picture rather than simply sharing the Truth of the Gospel. Personally, nothing turns me off quicker than when preachers talk like that, as if they need to add their own dramatic inflection to the Word of God.

Anyway, no offense A4T. I'm not trying to rain on the "I love the video" parade but that type of preaching seems to me to be employed by people who think the Word Itself can't capture the hearts of God's people.
 
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Reformationist

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(-:
I think they just get into safe ruts.

Yeah. You're probably right. 'Course, as they're being trained as ministers, that's probably the style that they're exposed to most often as that seems to be the predominant preaching style so they probably think that's the way they're expected to preach when they get their own congregation.

God bless
 
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DerSchweik

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How can one be born again and then be unborn again?

Sure brother, I think we can. We call it death.

Being "born again" is a physical analogy that describes a spiritual rebirth to a new life. Jesus defined "eternal life" as a relationship, as knowing God.

We enter this relationship willfully, of our own choosing, and in accord with His criteria (e.g. belief, repentance, confession, etc.).

We can exit the relationship in the same way - willfully.

This is why we are admonished throughout the New Testament to endure, persevere, to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" until "we see the day [of His return]" because of the DAILY temptations, persecutions, and accusations thrown at us by the devil and his minions to get us to stumble, to question, to leave the Lord.

That we are thus admonished naturally implies, nay requires the possibility we may NOT endure, NOT persevere, NOT work out our salvations with fear or trembling.

That we still can sin, and indeed do sin requires the possibility that we can become hardened by the deceitfullness of this sin - otherwise there would be no need to admonish us in our behaviors.

If we cannot fall away,
  • Why do we still sin? And why all the admonishments against sinning as Christians?
  • Indeed, if we cannot fall away, what then is the purpose of sin in our lives (given we do still sin)?
    • God is not tempting us to sin, satan is. Is God then using satan to somehow discipline us?
    • Is it God's intent we "learn" something in our sin?
If we persist in our particular sins, we can become hardened by them, hardened to the point we can eventually retract our decision to serve Christ as Lord. This is why we must take sin seriously, why we must fellowship regularly with other Christians, regularly read our Bibles, regularly pray to God, and regularly strive to do His will in our lives and serve as Jesus served.


No, "once saved, always saved" is a delusion and not of the Lord (who cannot lie). Does He strengthen us, empower us, provide us ways out when tempted? Absolutely! Amen!:amen: But we should not be naive to the possibility we can become hardened by sin too, should we persist in it.
To be absolutely clear, the Christian, indwelt by His Holy Spirit, is no longer ruled by sin - sin no longer has absolute power in the Christian's life. This is why we are to "consider ourselves dead to sin" and "alive to Christ." With the Holy Spirit in our lives, we have the power to overcome sin in our lives - and with every temptation, God provides us a way out.​


But this is a hostile world - as we all know too well. And until we are safely in His arms in eternity, we must be ever vigilant:​


"Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, casting all your anxiety upon Him, because He cares for you. Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. And after you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you." I Peter 5:6-10​
May God's grace be with us all as we strive to serve Him in all faith and perseverance.
 
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ryanb6

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?


5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus Philippians 1:5-6

if it is not a completed work then it is not of God.
 
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ryanb6

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once saved always saved?.....i dont know the answer to that one but i recall demas a convert/disviple of paul forsaking paul as he "loved this present world",i would take that as turning his back on christianity

9Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, "This man is the divine power known as the Great Power." 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into[c] the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin."
24Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me." 25When they had testified and proclaimed the word of the Lord, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many Samaritan villages
Acts 8:9-25

Simon believed in a different God than the God of scripture. He thought God could be bought.


sorry i just read your post more thoroughly and i believe we are speaking of different things. sorry
 
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ryanb6

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23May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3-5
 
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SonicBOOM

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?


it's an impact of the heart that makes us a Christain and this is something that alot of people have a hard time understanding. Being a Christain doesn't rest upon praying a prayer or even beleiving the right doctrine for a certain time. It rests upon a touch of the heart. so therefore you can pray a prayer and accept the Christain relelgein but never ever let God into your heart for real. The evedence of this is usaully a backsliding or a falling away from the faith. People have diffrent reason for leaving and their reason often reveal why they attending the Christain relegein for the time they did.

If a person rejects Christainity on an intelectaul level than they saught out Christainity because of intelect. If they left Christainity because it was unfullfilling than they came to Christainity hoping to be fullfilled somehow. If they left Christainity because they prefer sin than they came to Christainity because of emotions and thrills.

the point of the matter is that a real and true Christain has no "other" motive. They accept Christ for an entirely diffrent reason. It's not to give or get anything... it's simply that they've encountered God.
 
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seashale76

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?

I think people often confuse the term Christian with the term salvation. Christians are part of the body of Christ and are working out their salvation in the life of the Church. Christians are still running their race. At any point, a person has the free-will to choose to no longer follow Christ and no longer be in communion with the Church. This would certainly make one an ex-Christian. However, really, why do you care what someone else says about you in this instance? You are no longer following Christ, so it is technically a moot question for you to be asking.

Regarding your last question and my opinion: My opinion is that these people have watched too many Way of the Master videos with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. They need to give up these modern innovations and are more than welcome to come home to the Church.
 
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Sarah991

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No matter how many different branches of Christianity there are, all Christians believe in the God in the Bible and they believe that Jesus Christ was the son of that God. I myself, am an ex-Christian, I used to believe in that but now I don't. I personally cant see any way anyone could say there is no such thing as an ex-Christian.
People's beliefs can change
 
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ryanb6

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No matter how many different branches of Christianity there are, all Christians believe in the God in the Bible and they believe that Jesus Christ was the son of that God. I myself, am an ex-Christian, I used to believe in that but now I don't. I personally cant see any way anyone could say there is no such thing as an ex-Christian.
People's beliefs can change
you had not been transformed by the holy spirit, sorry. if you do not continue with us you were never of us. the bible makes that clear. many people will say didn't they do great things in Jesus name and he will tell them to depart, he never knew them. sorry, i say this in love but you were never a christian.
 
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