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No such thing as an ex-Christian

Beanieboy

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?
 

wnwall

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?


To quote Paul Washer, "The greatest heresy in the American, Evangelical, Protestant church is that if you pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart he will definitely come in. You will not find that in any place in scripture."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYsClDclvf0

It's true. You cannot find a single passage saying, "Pray and ask Jesus into your heart." Jesus preached repentance, a turning away from sin, a desire not to be like the world, a desire to glorify God in everything you do; Jesus never preached that saying a prayer and asking him into your heart makes you a Christian. Instead, Jesus said,
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?" And then will I declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 7).
Whether or not you said a prayer one time has nothing to do with whether God created a new heart in you. Regeneration is a supernatural work of God where he takes dead hearts of stone and breathes new life into them, not a work of a prayer.
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 4:6).
And God has promised that anyone who he breathes new life into he will preserve to the end.
I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6).

I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38-39).​
 
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tapero

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?

Hi as to tongues, yep, of course has no meaning or bearing on being a Christian.

If you know that you came to Christ and believed, you are a Christian. This is something you would know.

There are many people who believe they are christians but are decieved..just want to mention that the bible speaks of such... especially the Lord Lord passage, they obviously believed they were believers, and Christ said away from me I NEVER KNEW you, hence they were never believers and were using demonic powers to do what they did, but they were decieved, either by themselves, or another.

If you have wandered from the truths in the bible to things that stray from Gods truth that is something of concern, but not for me, only for you.

Going to church, tongues, all that stuff of course does not make anyone a Christian..and saying I believe does not mean one is a Christian, but believing is how one comes to Christ and only that person knows if he believes in Christ.

so anyone can be decieved believing they are a Christian.

anyone can mouth the words, and not be a Christian.

and a Christian would get the truths of God and many other things as pertains to our walk from the bible.

when and if one wanders and believes in truths contrary to the bible, a red flag should go up, as something is wrong.

So, the key is to know whether you are a Christian or not a christian, is not up to us at all.

but do beware and of course not saying this about you, people are decieved and yet do believe they are a Christian.

Tongues is not a sign of anything. most to many who do tongues, start babbling and that's how they start speaking in tongues in fact is how they are taught to speak in tongues.

There are no tongues in the bible as pertains to other than foreign languages being tongues..and then those when used need an interpretor so another may benefit. At least paul so urges that is the proper use of tongues otherwise it benefits no other person.

Bible is very clear it is a foreign language and a mere reading of context reveals such.

So a non believer or believer can babble and call it tongues and is babbling.

If it's not a foreign language useful to another, and it's called prayer tongues, no such thing.

ah, reading on now, you call yourself a former Christian? Does that mean you do not believe in Christ? I'm reading the latter portion of your post now.

As to ex Christians.

I believe once saved always saved, so if someone is truly a believer and they would know, unless they are decieved by themselves or another, then yup even if they walk away from God they are still saved.

13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Above is the proof, and though one needs be sure that they are believers.

If someone needs help to grasp more to know that they are believers they could reach out to someone to help them.

So, to me, a person who is a believer is christ and walks away, is always a christian, even if they call themselves an atheist.

God knows their heart, knows why and what happened, knows the stumbling block, and they may return to God or they may not in this life, but if they did believe, the seal, mark guarantee above, is not void, the Holy Spirit does not jump out, God does not lie.

So, again, the thing is to be sure one is a Christian..and such can be known...we know.

blessings,
tapero
 
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heron

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I have no doubt that you were a Christian when you chose to be a Christian. That is the whole principle of trust that we all have to base our faith on -- taking God at His word, that if we choose to follow Him, then we are followers. Disciples.

People do a lot of damage when they judge spirituality on outward expressions of gifts. God knows the heart.

While I agree that tongues should not indicate whether someone is a Christian or not, it is definitely in the Bible. To say that tongues are not part of Christianity just reflects personal choices not to agree with parts of scriptures. Jesus himself spoke of tongues.

Mr 16:17
These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues. (Greek links.)


The first recorded instance was in Acts 2, where it was clearly languages speaking the good news to visitors in the city for a census -- where no one (possibly) would have been able to tell them about Jesus in their own languages.

But later Paul teaches on tongues, both in the service 1Co 12:10, 28 -and in private prayer 1Co 14:18 . Most Christians who practice tongues believe in a clear separation between private prayer and congregational messages that need interpreting.

1Co 12:30
1Co 13:1
Most of 1Co 14

Isaiah is quoted by Paul in one of these discourses on handling tongues in the church . 1Cor 14:21

IS 28:11 For with stammering lip and other languages, He will speak to this people.

There are plenty of other criteriae that people could base Christian conviction on, and tongues is such a surface reflection, easily mimicked, contrived, striven for, or just plain randomly spoken... Just remember that what one Christian says is not representative of everyone in Christendom, or representative of God's viewpoint. Including mine.


so anyone can be decieved believing they are a Christian.

anyone can mouth the words, and not be a Christian.
-for emphasis-
Jesus expressed that too.
Mt 23:27

God wants to work with all of us. The imperfect, the people tempted to decieve, the people who have messed up Christianity horribly, the people who haven't a clue. God doesn't stop when we give up on other people. If a minister goes bad, God doesn't throw him out the window. You know the verses about shaping like clay, and refining like fire. Corruption is brought to the surface for skimming.
I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?
My opinion is that you know God's heart better than people think you do.

If Jesus could say that the thief next to Him on the cross was destined for paradise, just for defending Him, what right do we have to say that a believer does not deserve God's love and mercy?

Brash doctrine can damage. People develop understanding through gradual reasoning and subtle influence. There is no beneficial outcome in insulting someone else's spirituality or good intent.
 
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WarEagle

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If you know that you came to Christ and believed, you are a Christian.

And this is found in verse...?

As to ex Christians.

I believe once saved always saved, so if someone is truly a believer and they would know, unless they are decieved by themselves or another, then yup even if they walk away from God they are still saved.

I see. So then, 2 John 1 is wrong?

So, to me, a person who is a believer is christ and walks away, is always a christian, even if they call themselves an atheist.

The key words here being "to me". To you, they're a Christian. According to the Bible, they're apostate and unsaved.

God knows their heart, knows why and what happened, knows the stumbling block, and they may return to God or they may not in this life, but if they did believe, the seal, mark guarantee above, is not void, the Holy Spirit does not jump out, God does not lie.

So, basically what you're saying is that one can be born again, and yet still go back and serve the very sin that he is supposed to be dead to?
 
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WarEagle

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I have no doubt that you were a Christian when you chose to be a Christian. That is the whole principle of trust that we all have to base our faith on -- taking God at His word, that if we choose to follow Him, then we are followers. Disciples.

How can one be born again and then be unborn again?
 
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ConanTheLibrarian

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One of the differences between Catholicism and most evangelicals is that, in our view, God always respects human freedom. It is possible for people to turn away from Him, or more often simply drift away. I have no reason to doubt that your earlier expereince as a Christian was a real one.

As Catholics, we are constantly reminded of how important it is to remind ourselves of the fundamentals of our faith, lest we drift away. That is why we stress such things as regular attendence at the mass and praying the rosary. (The rosary is, itself, a summary of the Christian faith. I could go into more detail about that, but that would be a whole other post!)

Ultimatly, though, our own subjective feelings are not so important. It is not a question of, "how do I feel," but rather "is this true"? Feelings come and go and, to be honest, I feel rather crappy right now, but I know in Whom I believe. Christianity is true, regardless of how I may happen to feel at the moment.

The media recently reported how, in Mother Teresa's journals, she admitted to doubts, and real struggles with her faith. Yet, she persevered in spite of those doubts. As far as I am concerned, that showed her to be a person of heroic faith all the more.

Even if you may feel empty, do not give up. The door to God's mercy is always open.
 
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Speculative

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One of the differences between Catholicism and most evangelicals is that, in our view, God always respects human freedom. It is possible for people to turn away from Him, or more often simply drift away. I have no reason to doubt that your earlier expereince as a Christian was a real one.
I agree with Conan on this one.

I never really understood what the point was, anyway, of telling someone who has fallen away, "you never were a Christian". That seems counterproductive to reconciliation, to me.

The main point is, if you have rejected Christ, you are not a Christian now and that's what we should focus on.
 
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jad123

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One of the differences between Catholicism and most evangelicals is that, in our view, God always respects human freedom. It is possible for people to turn away from Him, or more often simply drift away. I have no reason to doubt that your earlier expereince as a Christian was a real one.

As Catholics, we are constantly reminded of how important it is to remind ourselves of the fundamentals of our faith, lest we drift away. That is why we stress such things as regular attendence at the mass and praying the rosary. (The rosary is, itself, a summary of the Christian faith. I could go into more detail about that, but that would be a whole other post!)

Ultimatly, though, our own subjective feelings are not so important. It is not a question of, "how do I feel," but rather "is this true"? Feelings come and go and, to be honest, I feel rather crappy right now, but I know in Whom I believe. Christianity is true, regardless of how I may happen to feel at the moment.

The media recently reported how, in Mother Teresa's journals, she admitted to doubts, and real struggles with her faith. Yet, she persevered in spite of those doubts. As far as I am concerned, that showed her to be a person of heroic faith all the more.

Even if you may feel empty, do not give up. The door to God's mercy is always open.

While am I classified as Protestant or Evangelical or whatever I agree with 100% on this. The same freedom that I have to accept or reject God's gift I can turn my back and give that gift back.
 
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Key

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Were you ever a Christian? Well that's a tricky question, because, being a Christian is not a "One time deal", it's a continual thing, each day, each hour, each moment of your life, you make a choice.

Jesus speaks of this clearly. In the parable of the seeds being sowed. Some will hear the words and reject, others will accept, grow, and then die,and yet others will grow and multiply. Matthew 13:18-23

So, your just a seed that feel to rocky soil, you shot up, and died. It's as simple as that. (Sorry for being harsh)

See, a Seed digs it roots, the soil does not dig the roots for the seed, nor does the planter dig the seeds roots, the seed itself digs it's own roots, we as humans are no different, we must dig our own roots, seeking our continual growth, feeding ourselves. Sometimes, it's not easy. But then again , nothing worth truly having is ever easy to obtain.

So were you ever a Christian, well, that my friend is for you to answer.

Allow me to humor you with my own story, at this one: I hated church, I had not gone to church, until I was around 10 years old, and that was because my Mom wanted me to go, I have to say I hated every moment of it, it was like school, only now I had to deal with it on Sunday. It was everything I could despise, an extra day of "Class" where I had religion shoved upon me, and was taught how much a sinner I was, how I was so "Faulty", well, even at 10, I knew I had my own problems, I did not need anyone telling me I had any extra stuff wrong with me, like this sin trash. So, by the time I was 15, and could convince my mom to let me do my own thing, I stopped this whole Church nonsense. I did not fit in at school, and I did not fit in at church. The building may have changed, the people did not, it was the same bunk, now with a "Jesus Twist" and lets not forget the whole "I'm more holy then you" attitude that dripped from the walls of this place like poison, and that was all I knew, or needed to know. It was enough for me to realize I wanted nothing to do with this mess, or the people involved in it.

Anyway, fast forward the next 10 years. I tried to become a Christian again (Imagine that), because someone touched me, showed me a different Jesus, but, I still saw the same followers. The same judgment, the same hyperbole I did the first time, and it was a very short matter of time before I walked away in disgust.

I embraced it all, I read it all, everything from the Necronomicon, to the Koran. Every little black story and black spot on the Christian History. I dove deep into Wicca, and embraced Buddhism. I meditated seeking the balance of Taoism, You name it, I pretty much either knew about it, or tried it up close and personal. In the end, it was all the same, the same people, the same bunk, the same issues. Sure, some seemed a little more friendly then others, but it was all the same trash, given enough time, it all came down to the same things. I'm more in tune to the spirits, I'm more peaceful, I have found enlightenment, I can make my spells work, blah blah, blah. it was all the same.. and boiled down to "I'm better then you".. that was all it ever was to me.. people with ego's and way to much bloody pride.

And the Christian Church still reeked as haven for these "Things" that I could not bring myself to not hate, on every level.

Then, one day, I met, for lack of a better word, an angel, Oh MAN.. she ticked me off at every chance, every way, in every fashion. If it could have been done wrong, she did it wrong. I could not help myself to not hate her way of screwing things up. How is that an angel you ask? Well, simply put, she knew she had issues, she knew she made mistakes, and was not above admitting it, and more then that, she accepted me for my mistakes, as I was, how I am, with all my faults and drawbacks. She showed me, exactly what Jesus was like, and that word is "Accepting", so it took me a great many tries to find Christ, and a great many failures. And in a world where everyone else seems to be fakers, and just putting on a show, but passing judgment on you behind your back, or comparing themselves to you, and finding fault, putting you down to try and make themselves seem so much better, I found that Jesus did not do this.

Which I opened the Bible again, the only difference this time was, I was looking for Jesus, I was not seeking to become a "Christian".

So yah, I warm a pew at the local church, and I know it's a cool show, but nothing more then that, I am not going to set the roots of my faith in a building, because it's just a building with some people in it. When I stopped trying to find Christ in a Church, I finally found him, hidden where he had always been, right in the Bible, just waiting for me, to finally look. So, maybe you were a Christian, or maybe you were just looking to find Christ in a church. Who really knows.

As for me, all it really means is that you may have some grasp of scripture, and maybe an idea what the inside of a church looks like, the same feeling I have had about "Christians" since the day I met them. Unless you could prove to me otherwise.

Does this make me Judgmental? a little, more skeptical really I have seen and endured too much, to just assume that there is such a thing as a "Christian", it's really about the individual, not the group as a whole.

Does this in any manner demote you in my eyes? No, not in any sense. Believe what you will, my door shall remain open to you, if it is not a discussion of religion, then let us talk of sports, or some such.

Your still unique person, your not a thing with a religion tag on their forehead.

Maybe, we as a whole, need to see that, not only in ourselves, but in everyone, regardless of belief, or world view.

God Bless

Key
 
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Reformationist

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Well, truly being a Christian and never losing your way aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Many of the most vigilant and hardy Christians have left the faith for a season, only to return later. With that said, there is no such thing as one who is truly saved and then becomes unsaved. Salvation is something done to us, not with us. We participate in our sanctification but true conversion is wrought in us by no less than the power of God Himself, for man is, in his natural state, incapable of cooperating with God. The problem is that you seem to equate making a verbal profession of faith (you accepted Jesus into your heart) with a possession of genuine saving faith. Just as the Bible states that wisdom is justified by her children, so to is our faith shown to be genuine by our works (Luke 7:35; James 2:24). It would seem, though I don't presume to judge the veracity of your previous profession of faith infallibly, that your course in life indicates a spurious profession of faith.

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?

Again, it would depend on how the term "Christian" is being used. If it merely means one who outwardly appears to evidence faith, I would say they are wrong. If, however, the term "Christian" refers to someone who is converted by the regenerative power of God, then they are correct. There is no one that experiences true conversion that, later, fully and finally renounces God.

God bless
 
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tapero

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And this is found in verse...?



I see. So then, 2 John 1 is wrong?



The key words here being "to me". To you, they're a Christian. According to the Bible, they're apostate and unsaved.



So, basically what you're saying is that one can be born again, and yet still go back and serve the very sin that he is supposed to be dead to?

Hi, thought I gave the verse, sorry if I didn't.

As we can't debate in this forum, willl just give verse that most of what you asks refers to:
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.
.

if you have a different belief than I, not a problem, and since we can't debate, not much more I can say to other you wrote. Many posting here, have different beliefs as to what Gods word says. Is how it is.
 
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heron

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I saw a docu-film on Joan of Arc yesterday. She was going full guns with spiritual and political success, when her assigned army suddenly chose not to follow her visions. They split.

God told Joan that she would be captured, and that she needed to take imprisonment calmly.

She was captured, and had to stay imprisoned much longer than she expected. After six months, she decided that she needed to escape, no matter what her voices were saying. (As we tend to do...) She was still getting a clear message that she needed to stay where she was, or she would die.

She jumped out of the tower (in the film) and wasn't hurt -- a typical angelic rescue story. But she was recaptured, and sent to a worse prison.

Everything that happened from that point on not only got worse, but her bravado was scoffed at; her religiousity was flipped and called witchcraft, in order to destroy her; her old best friends did not come to rescue her; the spirit of her work in freeing France had not only faded, but Britain gained confidence, in having complete control over her.

Eventually she became self-destructive, and lost everyone's respect. Her life purpose had died, and was being thrown back at her.

What I got out of it was not so much about disobedience, but trusting those times where we seem to have no impact in life, no valuable input, no noble missions to battle out -- resting in the tower prison was her purpose for that time.

It was probably meant to strengthen the resolve of the other soldiers, bring repentance and a listening spirit in them, and strengthen the whole country (into a formal country) with the martyrdom concept. But she didn't trust the message to wait.

Did she stop being a Christian when she ignored God's voice? No. According to the story, her heart was still devoted. But later she was under duress with illness, food poisoning, people who betrayed her, discouragement about her call, and a close call with being burned at the stake. She became very disillusioned, and signed papers against her original convictions.

God was with her through all of this, but the organization of people and events surrounding her mission fell out of the most ideal plan. She went through more difficult circumstances than she would have in the primary plan.

People in different circumstances make similar choices. Sometimes they decide that what they had believed to be true is no longer what they believe.

That is a rational decision in their minds, based on a collection of experiences, readings, teachings... it is a decision that what seemed right at the time no longer seems right. God doesn't suddenly walk away the minute we start thinking about other religions. He doesn't cease to exist when we have given up on Christendom. He watches us making choices, and brings people across our path to help, but doesn't demand that we stay in His graces.

Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord.

Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.Isa 1:18
 
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Tinkerbell33

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?
there is such a thing as an ex christian. Maybe you did actually accept him into your life. There are many warnings in the Bible about losing your faith.

I don't understand how someone can reject Jesus once he is their lives. He has been in my life for two years and I hope I will never reject him or crucify him again because he id the light of my love and has given me peace.

Did you feel at peace when you believed in Jesus?, what made you lose your faith?
 
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aiki

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Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?

1Jn 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

The Bible makes it clear that there are definite indicators of genuine salvation that we are to look for in ourselves and others by which we can determine if we (and they) are truly saved. You and I need to know now if we are saved, because if we are not, and think we are, well, we will find ourselves like these folk:

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity.


What an incredibly horrible thing to think you're a child of God and going to heaven when in fact you're unknown to God as one of His children and going to Hell. This is why the Bible commands Christians to "Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves." (2 Cor. 13:5)

As I said, the Bible gives us some indicators of genuine salvation:

1. Obedience to God's commands/ bearing fruit.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keeps his (God's) commandments dwells in him, and he in him.


Joh 15:14 You are my friends, if you do whatsoever I command you.

1Jn 2:17 ... he that does the will of God abides forever.

Joh 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain..."

Joh 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing."

2. A love for Christ and fellow Christians.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loves him that begat loves him also that is begotten of him.

Joh 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loves me not keeps not my sayings...
"

3. A hunger for the Word of God.

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.

Jer 15:16 Your words were found, and I did eat them; and your word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by your name, O LORD God of hosts.

Peace to you.
 
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Mary_Magdalene

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Were you ever a Christian? Well that's a tricky question, because, being a Christian is not a "One time deal", it's a continual thing, each day, each hour, each moment of your life, you make a choice.

Jesus speaks of this clearly. In the parable of the seeds being sowed. Some will hear the words and reject, others will accept, grow, and then die,and yet others will grow and multiply. Matthew 13:18-23

So, your just a seed that feel to rocky soil, you shot up, and died. It's as simple as that. (Sorry for being harsh)

See, a Seed digs it roots, the soil does not dig the roots for the seed, nor does the planter dig the seeds roots, the seed itself digs it's own roots, we as humans are no different, we must dig our own roots, seeking our continual growth, feeding ourselves. Sometimes, it's not easy. But then again , nothing worth truly having is ever easy to obtain.

So were you ever a Christian, well, that my friend is for you to answer.

Allow me to humor you with my own story, at this one: I hated church, I had not gone to church, until I was around 10 years old, and that was because my Mom wanted me to go, I have to say I hated every moment of it, it was like school, only now I had to deal with it on Sunday. It was everything I could despise, an extra day of "Class" where I had religion shoved upon me, and was taught how much a sinner I was, how I was so "Faulty", well, even at 10, I knew I had my own problems, I did not need anyone telling me I had any extra stuff wrong with me, like this sin trash. So, by the time I was 15, and could convince my mom to let me do my own thing, I stopped this whole Church nonsense. I did not fit in at school, and I did not fit in at church. The building may have changed, the people did not, it was the same bunk, now with a "Jesus Twist" and lets not forget the whole "I'm more holy then you" attitude that dripped from the walls of this place like poison, and that was all I knew, or needed to know. It was enough for me to realize I wanted nothing to do with this mess, or the people involved in it.

Anyway, fast forward the next 10 years. I tried to become a Christian again (Imagine that), because someone touched me, showed me a different Jesus, but, I still saw the same followers. The same judgment, the same hyperbole I did the first time, and it was a very short matter of time before I walked away in disgust.

I embraced it all, I read it all, everything from the Necronomicon, to the Koran. Every little black story and black spot on the Christian History. I dove deep into Wicca, and embraced Buddhism. I meditated seeking the balance of Taoism, You name it, I pretty much either knew about it, or tried it up close and personal. In the end, it was all the same, the same people, the same bunk, the same issues. Sure, some seemed a little more friendly then others, but it was all the same trash, given enough time, it all came down to the same things. I'm more in tune to the spirits, I'm more peaceful, I have found enlightenment, I can make my spells work, blah blah, blah. it was all the same.. and boiled down to "I'm better then you".. that was all it ever was to me.. people with ego's and way to much bloody pride.

And the Christian Church still reeked as haven for these "Things" that I could not bring myself to not hate, on every level.

Then, one day, I met, for lack of a better word, an angel, Oh MAN.. she ticked me off at every chance, every way, in every fashion. If it could have been done wrong, she did it wrong. I could not help myself to not hate her way of screwing things up. How is that an angel you ask? Well, simply put, she knew she had issues, she knew she made mistakes, and was not above admitting it, and more then that, she accepted me for my mistakes, as I was, how I am, with all my faults and drawbacks. She showed me, exactly what Jesus was like, and that word is "Accepting", so it took me a great many tries to find Christ, and a great many failures. And in a world where everyone else seems to be fakers, and just putting on a show, but passing judgment on you behind your back, or comparing themselves to you, and finding fault, putting you down to try and make themselves seem so much better, I found that Jesus did not do this.

Which I opened the Bible again, the only difference this time was, I was looking for Jesus, I was not seeking to become a "Christian".

So yah, I warm a pew at the local church, and I know it's a cool show, but nothing more then that, I am not going to set the roots of my faith in a building, because it's just a building with some people in it. When I stopped trying to find Christ in a Church, I finally found him, hidden where he had always been, right in the Bible, just waiting for me, to finally look. So, maybe you were a Christian, or maybe you were just looking to find Christ in a church. Who really knows.

As for me, all it really means is that you may have some grasp of scripture, and maybe an idea what the inside of a church looks like, the same feeling I have had about "Christians" since the day I met them. Unless you could prove to me otherwise.

Does this make me Judgmental? a little, more skeptical really I have seen and endured too much, to just assume that there is such a thing as a "Christian", it's really about the individual, not the group as a whole.

Does this in any manner demote you in my eyes? No, not in any sense. Believe what you will, my door shall remain open to you, if it is not a discussion of religion, then let us talk of sports, or some such.

Your still unique person, your not a thing with a religion tag on their forehead.

Maybe, we as a whole, need to see that, not only in ourselves, but in everyone, regardless of belief, or world view.

God Bless

Key


Thank you for posting this Key. I can relate to this and it has helped me see that I am not alone! Thanks. :)
 
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salida

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There is such a thing as an ex-christian. God doesn't force anyone at all times to fellowship with Him. There are christians who will fall away and will never come back. In fact, the Bible says those who do this have done Hebrews 6:6 - crucified the Son of God twice and and 2 Peter 2:22.
 
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Angel4Truth

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On another thread, someone claimed that there was no such thing as an exChristian. I explained that I had always gone to church, prayed to God, accepted Jesus, asked for forgiveness of sins, read the bible, was baptised, confirmed, and even spoke in tongues at 18.

My understanding of God has changed, however, so I wouldn't technically call myself a Christian, but my beliefs are closer to that of Buddhism.

The poster then claimed, "Well, you weren't really a Christian then. Going to church doesn't get you into heaven, and praying in tongues doesn't even exist."

I realize that going to church doesn't make you "saved", but I accepted Jesus into my heart before, and that does. Tongues is a sign of it, but not necessary. However, when one claims that I wasn't a real Christian, I have to ask, how would anyone know they were, then? I prayed for Jesus to be my Saviour, and yet, it didn't take? I never imagined that I would ever call myself a former Christian at the time, so how can anyone know for sure that they are really a Christian if this is true?

Q: What is your opinion of people that claim there is no such thing as an ex-Christian (because you never really were one)?


I think this video will answer your question- its called how do you know your saved?It says it much better than i can : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY6F0pkArds
 
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rd151

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There are without doubt many who at one time professed Christ and now no longer do.The bible calls this departing from the faith. To say these individuals were never Christians at all is silly. For certainly all these people believed on Jesus in the beginnning, were baptized and attended church. But for various reasons departed from the faith. This occured in Paul's ministry at the end of his life. He mentioned how many had forsaken him and gone back into the world, and only Timothy was his co worker in Christ.

God certainly does not "hogtie" anyone into heaven or force us to continue in the faith, but allows us to that freedom of choice. Certainly, the blessed Holy Spirit convicts us, but there will come a time when men can harden themselves to that conviction and "return to the pigsty" they once were brought out of. Hebrews 6.
 
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