No Seminary, No Formal Religious Training

[FaithT]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

The ND church that has an educated pastor is a church I’d really like BUT has one thing that bothers me (and an acquaintance who is a member of their church). The head Pastor downplayed Covid as well as mocking wearing masks. I’m afraid of going there for fear of catching something, plus, leery of joining a church where they don’t place a priority on the safety of its members. That Pastor even had Covid himself and still doesn’t have a healthy fear of his congregants catching it.

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

 

[topher694]

Formal education is good, absolutely nothing wrong about it, but it can be overrated, or perhaps a better way of saying it is, over emphasized. Formal training does NOT make one a good pastor, nor does lack of formal training make one a bad pastor. There is no better teacher than experience, and sometimes formal education can get in the way of God. Pastoring a church is a calling not a career choice.

 

[tall73]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

The ND church that has an educated pastor is a church I’d really like BUT air has one thing that bothers me (and an acquaintance who is a member of their church). The head Pastor downplayed Covid as well as mocking wearing masks. I’m afraid of going there for fear of catching something, plus, leery of joining a church where they don’t place a priority on the safety of its members. That Pastor even had Covid himself and still doesn’t have a healthy fear of his congregants catching it.

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

Jesus' disciples learned on the job with Christ. Paul also trained Timothy on the job, while ministering.

Most pastors have scholastic training. But I have known some good pastors who did not have such training. And some churches train people locally so that they gain experience ministering in the community. Ultimately the faith is passed down person to person, and learning to minister is more about stepping out in faith, using the spiritual gifts God gives you, and learning from those who are mature in the faith how to serve the Lord.

 

[Albion]

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

Very few of the usual denominations--Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Episcopal, etc.--will approve of a pastor who has no formal religious training. Where you are most likely to encounter it would be with very tiny denominations or non-denominational/independent congregations.

But this doesn't mean that non-denominational churches routinely authorize ministers who are only self-taught. If the idea of an ND appeals to you in principle, look around. You should be able to find ND congregations with pastors who have solid educational credentials.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

This varies between groups, but as a former Lutheran, conservative Lutheran raised and catechized in the Wisconsin synod and knowing lots of Missouri synod folks, I know those folks take their seminary very seriously.. especially learning Greek and Hebrew!

I would say much more than other Protestant groups, your average Baptist, Pentecostal etc. There are actually certain groups like Word of Faith (Rhema Bible training Center) that are negative concerning traditional seminary considering most of what is taught from a traditional seminary nearly useless (too academic and not hands on practical) and maybe even dangerous (too liberal) unless it comes from one of their approved "Bible Training" Centers or Schools.

 

[zippy2006]

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

Yes. You may be able to find an exception or two, but they would be rare. You will save yourself a lot of time and headaches if you only look at churches with trained pastors (and, more generally, trained leaders).

 

[FaithT]

Yes. You may be able to find an exception or two, but they would be rare. You will save yourself a lot of time and headaches if you only look at churches with trained pastors (and, more generally, trained leaders).

That’s what I think too. I mean, without formal training, anybody could be a pastor and all they could be teaching is their opinions.

 

[FaithT]

Yes. You may be able to find an exception or two, but they would be rare. You will save yourself a lot of time and headaches if you only look at churches with trained pastors (and, more generally, trained leaders).

I’m pretty sure I’m going to stay put. Our sermons haven’t been speaking to me lately but there’s always time for that to change. I love my church other than that. I’ve really learned a lot since going there.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

The ND church that has an educated pastor is a church I’d really like BUT has one thing that bothers me (and an acquaintance who is a member of their church). The head Pastor downplayed Covid as well as mocking wearing masks. I’m afraid of going there for fear of catching something, plus, leery of joining a church where they don’t place a priority on the safety of its members. That Pastor even had Covid himself and still doesn’t have a healthy fear of his congregants catching it.

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

Where there is a lack of training in Church History, Biblical Languages, cultures surrounding the Bible expect false teachings galore.

 

[topher694]

Where there is a lack of training in Church History, Biblical Languages, cultures surrounding the Bible expect false teachings galore.

Have you been trained in these things?

 

[bèlla]

Good shepherds have a genuine concern for the flock, self-awareness, and a teachable spirit. If you aren't surrendered it doesn't matter how many letters you have behind your name. You're not operating in the capacity God expects.

The 4 Spiritual Types are a handy reference for your question. Where you fall along the spectrum will influence the kind of ministry that resonates. If you're intellectually driven you may prefer a pastor with professional training. But each approach has its downsides. You can rely on head knowledge and quench the spirit or put too much faith in your emotions and lack discernment.

I had a bible study teacher who demonstrates the problem with judging a book by its cover. She didn't go to bible college. But she started teaching classes while her kids attended school. She led Precept studies. When she came to the church and began to teach the women were overwhelmed.

They wanted knowledge. But not that much! She wasn't following the script. I had access to the leader's guide. Most of the material she provided was the result of her own study and planning. She was thinking so far out the box and digging into the word from different angles they couldn't handle it.

She had to dial back her knowledge to accommodate them. They weren't prepared to work at that level. She knew her stuff. And that wasn't solely about the topic. She spearheaded initiatives which didn't exist. Like paid childcare provided by members of the church who lacked employment. While the parents studied they cared for their children. She had financial aid to ensure everyone could participate and a weekly prayer list and prayer group that followed.

And she co-led a small group for married couples with her spouse. The girl was bad. I say that with much respect. I've never met another like her and probably won't. She was one of a kind.

I shared an experience recently which referenced a church with vibrant ministries for giving and service. They go above and beyond anything I've encountered in the body. The pastor didn't have a degree either.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

 

[Sketcher]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

If you go strictly by the example of the Apostles, what were their educational credentials? Aside from Paul, not very impressive. One could say that three-odd years of being close disciples of Jesus has a lot of value, and I'd agree - but that's very different from a seminary education. That being said, since we have a more educated population these days, and given the role and the power a pastor has these days, I would say that a seminary education is definitely a good thing for a pastor to have. However, even that isn't enough; he would need to be reasonable and humble enough to separate what he does know from what he does not, and responsible enough with that knowledge to not speak beyond his knowledge. He needs to be careful when giving examples or making comparisons, especially.

The ND church that has an educated pastor is a church I’d really like BUT has one thing that bothers me (and an acquaintance who is a member of their church). The head Pastor downplayed Covid as well as mocking wearing masks. I’m afraid of going there for fear of catching something, plus, leery of joining a church where they don’t place a priority on the safety of its members. That Pastor even had Covid himself and still doesn’t have a healthy fear of his congregants catching it.

That's disappointing. I'd say don't go to any church that is like that.

 

[FaithT]

If you go strictly by the example of the Apostles, what were their educational credentials? Aside from Paul, not very impressive. One could say that three-odd years of being close disciples of Jesus has a lot of value, and I'd agree - but that's very different from a seminary education. That being said, since we have a more educated population these days, and given the role and the power a pastor has these days, I would say that a seminary education is definitely a good thing for a pastor to have. However, even that isn't enough; he would need to be reasonable and humble enough to separate what he does know from what he does not, and responsible enough with that knowledge to not speak beyond his knowledge. He needs to be careful when giving examples or making comparisons, especially.


That's disappointing. I'd say don't go to any church that is like that.

Yeah, they clearly didn’t want to admit to me that their pastor wasn’t formally trained, but I kept bugging them until they finally told me.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

The ND church that has an educated pastor is a church I’d really like BUT has one thing that bothers me (and an acquaintance who is a member of their church). The head Pastor downplayed Covid as well as mocking wearing masks. I’m afraid of going there for fear of catching something, plus, leery of joining a church where they don’t place a priority on the safety of its members. That Pastor even had Covid himself and still doesn’t have a healthy fear of his congregants catching it.

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

To put the Bible literally, one doesn't need a college degree or anything to lead a church. However, one does need to at least be mentored by someone who is older and in authority (another Pastor) and, of course, have that call of God on their lives.

Most actual denominations (that is a church that is under a governing body) require some form of actual religious training outside of discipleship. Assemblies of God has (or had) a program called Master's Commission that would allow one to be ordained into ministry without actual seminary or a college degree. Outside of a denomination, one can be ordained by their Pastor and elders if they so choose though, normally, this is rare overall and most churches in general prefer that one goes to seminary or Bible College anyways.

 

[FaithT]

To put the Bible literally, one doesn't need a college degree or anything to lead a church. However, one does need to at least be mentored by someone who is older and in authority (another Pastor) and, of course, have that call of God on their lives.

Most actual denominations (that is a church that is under a governing body) require some form of actual religious training outside of discipleship. Assemblies of God has (or had) a program called Master's Commission that would allow one to be ordained into ministry without actual seminary or a college degree. Outside of a denomination, one can be ordained by their Pastor and elders if they so choose though, normally, this is rare overall and most churches in general prefer that one goes to seminary or Bible College anyways.

I’ve decided to stay put. The messages are becoming more relatable. You can’t please everybody all the time.

I’d prefer a pastor who has had formal training. I don’t know if this particular church even has elders. I’ve been under the impression that it was started by one guy and has family pastoring with him, but I may be wrong.

 

[FaithT]

I’ve decided to stay put. The messages are becoming more relatable. You can’t please everybody all the time.

I’d prefer a pastor who has had formal training. I don’t know if this particular church even has elders. I’ve been under the impression that it was started by one guy and has family pastoring with him, but I may be wrong.

I just read that the lead pastor founded the church in 2003. I can’t find any mention of staff. It appears to be a family run group.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I’ve decided to stay put. The messages are becoming more relatable. You can’t please everybody all the time.

I’d prefer a pastor who has had formal training. I don’t know if this particular church even has elders. I’ve been under the impression that it was started by one guy and has family pastoring with him, but I may be wrong.

If this is a church in the USA they should have an elder board if they are a 501(C)(3) organization (meaning your donations are tax deductible).

 

[Tigger45]

The Apostles were 1st century Jews who naturally acquired knowledge of the Tanakh and languages we who are of the 21st century would need to learn thru education. (other than Paul who was formally trained) Not to mention that on top of that they learned about the Kingdom of God from the King Himself 24/7 for over three years.

 

[FaithT]

If this is a church in the USA they should have an elder board if they are a 501(C)(3) organization (meaning your donations are tax deductible).

I don’t know, I only went there once, just to check it out. All I do know is that the head pastor founded this church; has no formal training in becoming a pastor; and his son or whatever relative also pastors this church.
Oh, and either his son or another person started some form of study and quit.

 

[actionsub]

Got a question. I’m currently going to a Lutheran LCMS church and their music is fabulous but their messages don’t touch my heart, they usually aren’t relatable.

I have a Catholic background and when I left the CC I checked out a non denominational (ND) church where the lead Pastor had been educated at a Bible College, and I think the others have religious training or education too; a ND church where I later found out the lead Pastor doesn’t have any special education regarding religion, his fellow pastors don’t either, but I think one started study and quit, IIRC, and dragging that information out of them was like pulling teeth; and the Lutheran LCMS where the Pastors both have extensive education.

Is it common or even acceptable for a pastor to not have religious training? I guess he did self study but that’s a thing that makes me go “Hmmm.”

So when looking for a good church, is it necessary for their pastors have to have training in religion?

Depends on the training. I'm not a pastor; I work in social "justice" ministry. I dropped out of seminary, mainly due to some family events that made it impossible for me to continue. Not finishing will probably be the biggest regret I carry to the grave.
Your experience with the COVID-denying pastor is proof that an MDiv isn't everything. When looking for a good church, look at both the training AND the character of the person in the pulpit.
If the walk matches the degree, you've found a keeper.