No salvation outside the Church

St_Barnabus

Secular Carmelite OCDS
Jun 6, 2008
1,822
394
Midwest USA
✟54,616.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Zazal said:
Sometimes I seek the prayers of friends (to pray to our Saviour) as this is established biblical theology...and the Bible teaches us that He hears us...but there are no such directives that come close in the Bible that involve any of the Heavenly Host. Also if this is not clearly established, where do I get the faith to believe it is...in other words how can I be sure I am not wasting my time (or worse) and doing something that has no merit whatsoever?...Who's account do I believe and trust?

I apologize for coming late to this thread, for I have been recovering from surgery and did not follow along. You're very on-the-mark asking for prayers from friends, the living members of the Body of Christ. Do you believe that death is merely a temporary separation of body and soul? The soul is still alive in Christ, and will ultimately be resurrected with their body in a glorious manner. [no disease, handicaps, deformities] I trust you believe in the resurrection ... ?

Not being present in the body does not mean the person is incapable of hearing our prayer, in their spirit. They are able to intercede for us in the same way that someone who is in the flesh can pray for us, and their prayers may be even more effective than those prayed by our friends who are living.
 
Upvote 0

thereselittleflower

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2003
34,832
1,526
✟50,355.00
Faith
Catholic
Do you know if everyone was unanimous in thinking this was an acceptable practice, or were there voices of dissent, and are there any in authority amongst the Catholic hierarchy now that express misgivings?

Absolutely everyone was unanimous! There were no voices of dissent from the Early Church Fathers.

The evidence is in the fact that prayesr to Mary and the Saints were practiced everywhere in christendom in the early Church .. we see these prayers inscribed on the walls of the catcombs where Christians buried there dead.

We have the Sub Tuum prayer from the early Church directed towards Mary "We Fly to your Patronage Holy Mother of God"
Sub tuum praesidium

The earliest text of this hymn was found in a Coptic Orthodox Christmas liturgy of the third century. It is written in Greek and dates to approximately 250.[1] It is used in the Coptic liturgy to this day, as well as in the Byzantine, Ambrosian, and Roman liturgies. It is especially sung by young Christian men and women who are being educated by the Marist Brothers.

Beneath your compassion,We take refuge, O Mother of God:do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:but rescue us from dangers,only pure, only blessed one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub_tuum_praesidium
This is the earliest known copy. It was used everywhere in the Church spread out over many counties. . this in an era where it took time for something to spread and receive such universal acceptance, which means it was in use FAR EARLIER than the date of this known copy.

This is a prayer was not simply something that was floating around on the fringes of Chrsitianity, it was used in the LITURGY of the Church which gives it VERY HIGH universal importance in the Church.

If such prayers were not part of the faith the Apostles handed down to the Church, then we would have seen such pratice squashed immediately by the Early Church Fathers who were quick to denounce and expose heresy, and never ever make it into wide spread use, and especially not into the Liturgy!

The fact of its universal use and acceptance and practice in the Church WITHOUT even the TINIEST HINT of criticism or concern from the Early Church Fathers should settle the matter simply and easily.
 
Upvote 0

WarriorAngel

I close my eyes and see you smile
Site Supporter
Apr 11, 2005
72,850
9,387
United States Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟441,719.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
In fact TLF - we see instead - the ecf's defending Mary - and teaching on Her Holiness thru our Lord Jesus Christ.
On Her perpetual Virginity.
On being the New Eve without sin.

It's in there. [sorry Prego pasta commercial got to me.]
 
Upvote 0
Apr 14, 2011
1,448
68
✟9,428.00
Faith
Christian
What's stopping salvation outside the Church?

If it's nothing and my question is inert, then what does the Church mean by "no salvation outside of the Church"?
wolf%20in%20Sheep%27s%20clothing.jpg



Are the Catholics barking again? Augustine was correct that there are many sheep outside The Church as well as many wolves within The Church.
 
Upvote 0

Zeek

Follower of Messiah, Israel advocate and Zionist
Nov 8, 2010
2,888
217
England
✟11,664.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Thanks friends....have read everything again, and will re-engage as soon as possible, but I have made an awful gaff and forgotten to fill in my tax-return (online) so I must concentrate on that as it must be in by 31st. ...if I can't reply before then, be assured I will consider everything written and begin replies Feb 1-2nd.

I do appreciate the time, patience and friendly way most of you have laboured so valiently to provide answers and examples, and explained some Catholic procedures I am not fully familiar with.

Therese and others... I honestly try and lay down my pre-conceptions, prejudices and mis-conceptions, I pray about things I check out the scriptures and try to bridge the gap between my faith in the Bible and my lack of faith/uncertainty over many extra-biblical traditions and pronoucemnents. In GT I can be more direct and forceful, sometimes trying to provoke a serious response by a different method, but in here I am forced to approach things differently....both are helpful.

It is my desire that although we may strongly differ on certain issues, we can see and enjoy the unity that is ours through the Spirit and love of our Saviour.

Best. Zazal
 
Upvote 0

whitebeaches

Legend
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2007
76,787
4,594
✟144,700.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Mod Hat On
1784842-857949-woman-s-summer-red-straw-hat-sea-shells-and-modern-sunglasses-isolated-on-white-background.jpg

This thread has undergone a cleanup for the violation of the Congregational Forum Restrictions rule: Do not teach or debate in any Congregational Forum unless you are truly a member and share its core beliefs and teachings.
It is quite possible another cleaning may take place. If you notice a post of yours missing it was removed in the cleanup. Please remember the board rules when posting. Thank you and may you have a wonderful day.
Mod Hat Off
 
Upvote 0

Zeek

Follower of Messiah, Israel advocate and Zionist
Nov 8, 2010
2,888
217
England
✟11,664.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Sorry folks, I had fully intended to re-engage in some of the interesting things we were looking at in this thread..(I finally finished filling in my tax form), but despite my efforts not to go beyond Forum rules, and not to offend any of my Catholic brethren, it seems I failed again....apologies to whomever I offended.

I think for the most part I had better stick to GT or some other areas where it seems much harder to tread on peoples toes.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by beggarsall
That man wasn't saved because Jesus was the head of the church.

He was saved because he put his faith in Jesus Christ. You don't have to be in the church to do that.
Jesus Christ was saved by having faith in Jesus Christ?¿?¿
Can't one have faith in themselves? :p





.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums