No one is righteous vs. the righteousness of Christ

[com7fy8]

But what identifies us as a member of the body of Christ? Our humility, or Christ in us?

Not our own humility, but Jesus in us is humble; so we do have the humility of Jesus in us.

Jesus says, "I am gentle and lowly in heart", in Matthew 11:28-30.

Being "lowly" includes being humble to submit to our Father and always desire and do what He wants and has us doing with Him. So, it means being in companionship with God. And God is all-loving, even though He is so superior to all humans. Yet, He cares for any and all people. So, even though God is so superior, He is not at all conceited . . . if He is so interested in us humans.

And Jesus on the cross shows this, how He is so unconceited that He suffered and died like He did because He so cares for any and all people, plus has hope for any evil person, at all >

"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 john 2:2)

So, Jesus Himself is so humble . . . so unconceited . . . that He desires to forgive and adopt any person, at all, to become family with us.

 

[com7fy8]

Yet I know how often I stumble and fall, and how He has dealt with me...should I have less compassion, then, on others who have stumbled?

He is our example of how He desires us also to have compassion on others. This is included in being righteous . . . in the right way of love and living and relating.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Jesus was even sweetly pleasing to our Father while going through all that > "a sweet-smelling aroma".

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, with Jesus we too forgive sweetly and kindly and tenderly, first in order to be sweetly pleasing to our Father. And to relate this to this thread's topic, becoming so generously and sweetly forgiving is included in growing in the righteousness of Jesus in us > this is not the imputed righteousness, but the growing and developing righteousness which abides in God's love and grows in us as we grow in His love. This, "of course", all is in Jesus who is our righteousness growing in us as our new inner Person >

"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God---and righteousness and sanctification and redemption---" (1 Corinthians 1:30)

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

We are to be the light of the world...we must shine out in the darkness...and if we do that, we can't help but expose the sin around us...can we?
Do we rightly name sin for what it is? Yes, I believe we have that responsibility.

We need to point out what is wrong, so we ourselves don't do it and get into it.

And by living the way God has us love, this can help to show how sinful things are so wrong . . . having people miss out on how they could love.

 

[TheBarrd]

He is our example of how He desires us also to have compassion on others. This is included in being righteous . . . in the right way of love and living and relating.

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Jesus was even sweetly pleasing to our Father while going through all that > "a sweet-smelling aroma".

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

So, with Jesus we too forgive sweetly and kindly and tenderly, first in order to be sweetly pleasing to our Father. And to relate this to this thread's topic, becoming so generously and sweetly forgiving is included in growing in the righteousness of Jesus in us > this is not the imputed righteousness, but the growing and developing righteousness which abides in God's love and grows in us as we grow in His love. This, "of course", all is in Jesus who is our righteousness growing in us as our new inner Person >

"But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God---and righteousness and sanctification and redemption---" (1 Corinthians 1:30)

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)


We need to point out what is wrong, so we ourselves don't do it and get into it.

And by living the way God has us love, this can help to show how sinful things are so wrong . . . having people miss out on how they could love.

Yes! And by living the way God has us love...why, we shine a light into the darkness, don't we? We can't help it...it is the Light within us being reflected back into the world.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

What identifies us as a member of the Body of Christ, you ask?
I will let Jesus answer you:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

What is this love?

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Notice there, where it says that charity (we would say love) "vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up"?
That would be humility.
Love is humble.

Please stick to the OP. If you'd like to answer the rest of the post you're responding to, that'd be great too. Thanks.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Certainly we should be marked by growing into the likeness of Christ. If one has made progress, it shouldn't be surprising that he might seem holy to others who see him.

The only problem I see is if he sees himself as holy. Pride is the ugliest and most destructive sin.

I may have misunderstood, but it thought you were asking how we ought to see ourselves. That's why I answered as I did.

Thanks for this. I think this gets to the heart of it pretty well. Those around us, as we progress, should be able to see Christ in us - it's borne out by the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. But we should be aware of spiritual pride as well. The distinction I was making at the beginning was that, because of spiritual pride, we can declare that we are "not righteous" to such an extreme that we never fully accept the righteousness of Christ that is alive in us, that helps us to act in true humility. This is the humility that is not our own, but is of the Spirit.

 

[TheBarrd]

Please stick to the OP. If you'd like to answer the rest of the post you're responding to, that'd be great too. Thanks.

You asked me what identifies us as being Christians.
I answered you as honestly as I know how...what identifies us, according to Jesus (Who ought to know), is our love.
And I answered you in accordance with the OP, in that I showed you that love is humble.

I'm not sure what I didn't answer...but you got the best I have.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

You asked me what identifies us as being Christians.
I answered you as honestly as I know how

Yes. In bright red glowing letters.

What identifies us, according to Jesus (Who ought to know), is our love.
And I answered you in accordance with the OP, in that I showed you that love is humble.

I agree that we must show humility in love - the kind that is motivated by the love of Christ that is in us. But we also need to be aware of false humility that clothes itself in the language of perpetual sin and unrighteousness, even after we receive the righteousness of Christ.

I'm not sure what I didn't answer...but you got the best I have.

The part in bold below. The initial comment in the OP I was referring to was that "no one has the righteousness of God except Christ", and I proposed a counter-point. I also provided a link to the initial thread where I got the quote for context. In context, I believe that the person was advocating a type of false humility.

I agree. But what identifies us as a member of the body of Christ? Our humility, or Christ in us? Christ works initially in the salvic act, as well as to keep us, so what room is there to boast of anything? But, also, what room is there to declare that the righteousness of Christ does not live in us? Both seem to be extremes on the same continuum.

 

[TheBarrd]

Yes. In bright red glowing letters.

In most of the Bibles I've ever seen, the words of Christ are in red. That is why I quoted Him in red.

I agree that we must show humility in love - the kind that is motivated by the love of Christ that is in us. But we also need to be aware of false humility that clothes itself in the language of perpetual sin and unrighteousness, even after we receive the righteousness of Christ.

Yes. And that is what I said.

The part in bold below. The initial comment in the OP I was referring to was that "no one has the righteousness of God except Christ", and I proposed a counter-point. I also provided a link to the initial thread where I got the quote for context. In context, I believe that the person was advocating a type of false humility.

I wasn't a part of the former discussion, so I have no opinion on that discussion.
I'm aware that there are wolves among the sheep...this is not surprising.

I had no intention of offending you, Sir, and if I have done so, I apologize.

Perhaps your opponent in the other thread was referring to the place where it says "There is none righteous, no not one..."
The only righteousness any of us can lay any claim to, of course, is the righteousness of Christ.
This should not bring pride to our hearts...if anything, we should be humbled by the very fact that we cannot be righteous on our own...we needed a Savior to be our righteousness for us.

I can only bow my head in grateful prayer for this great mercy afforded to me...

Thank You, Jesus.

 

[samcarternx]

As I see it, it is simple. The old man is the sinner and when one is "born again", the old man dies on the cross and Christ is formed in him by the Holy Spirit and he becomes a "saint". As he lives out this truth by grace through the faith given him (faith of the "Son of God"), he becomes mature and then as "perfected" although true perfection comes on that "perfect day".

 

[TheBarrd]

As I see it, it is simple. The old man is the sinner and when one is "born again", the old man dies on the cross and Christ is formed in him by the Holy Spirit and he becomes a "saint". As he lives out this truth by grace through the faith given him (faith of the "Son of God"), he becomes mature and then as "perfected" although true perfection comes on that "perfect day".

That's more or less the way I see it, as well.
Except I think we need to "take up our cross" every day. That old man is a sneaky ol' devil. You can kick him out the front door...but that nasty dude has a habit of sneaking back in through a cellar window when you aren't looking.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Are we to always see ourselves in a constant state of unrighteousness, or does God declare us righteous through Christ?

The answer to this is yes. It's not either/or, it's both.

We are completely and miserably unrighteous; God does declare us righteous on Christ's account.

Simul iustus et peccator.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[TheBarrd]

The answer to this is yes. It's not either/or, it's both.

We are completely and miserably unrighteous; God does declare us righteous on Christ's account.

Simul iustus et peccator.

-CryptoLutheran

More peccator than iustus...

 

[samcarternx]

True, in myself there is no good thing, however, when I am used by His grace to do His will, His righteousness is counted to me so that I might wear the robes of righteousness.

 

[TheBarrd]

True, in myself there is no good thing, however, when I am used by His grace to do His will, His righteousness is counted to me so that I might wear the robes of righteousness.

Changing filthy rags to clean white robes takes a bit of doing.
It doesn't happen in a snap.

 

[samcarternx]

I agree it doesn't happen in a snap and it will never happen if we don't believe it. It is by grace through faith and that is not of ourselves, but it is the gift of God. I think of it like a new baby when Christ is formed in us and as we respond to the grace of God we think and act as He does, and grow and finally mature into His likeness and on that perfect day we in Him and Him in us know Him as He is because we are just like Him. None of us deserve this awesome outcome, but I am rejoicing and giving thanks for such a wonderful salvation. Whooot

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Changing filthy rags to clean white robes takes a bit of doing.
It doesn't happen in a snap.

Strange that one would want to be a filthy rag when they can be clean, but such is life.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Perhaps this thread serves to answer my question on the basis of "imputed righteousness".

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Perhaps this thread serves to answer my question on the basis of "imputed righteousness".

I was thinking some of that reading the other thread. "Imputed" has a number of overtones for me, though. Too many that I haven't really looked into, and the context in which one might be using the term - whether it's a correct use or not.

 

[samcarternx]

Imputed isn't quite right. Since by His grace, I was the instrument by which the acts were done, I am clothed in them even though it was His will and His doing through me. He gets the glory of doing the right and I get to be there.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I was thinking some of that reading the other thread. "Imputed" has a number of overtones for me, though. Too many that I haven't really looked into, and the context in which one might be using the term - whether it's a correct use or not.

Yes, I can't articulate it clearly at this point. Certainly we "put on Christ". And we are to be changed into His likeness (I fully support the dogma of theosis). But there are some implications in "imputed righteousness" that I have trouble with ...