"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
God is not governed by time, so to say He can’t see into the future is talking rubbish at best."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
God is not governed by time, so to say He can’t see into the future is talking rubbish at best."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
God is not governed by time, so to say He can’t see into the future is talking rubbish at best."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
( 7 ) : ” THE GREATEST FALSE TEACHING OF THE CHURCHES ! “
August 17, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment
The standard teaching in the present day churches is that yes, we cannot save ourselves : That the only thing we have is our own free will, to either choose or reject God . Well does the Bible teach that we choose God of our own free will ? JOHN 1 ( 13) : ” Which were born NOT OF THE WILL OF MAN , BUT OF GOD ! ” ROMANS 9 ( 16 ) : ” So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH , BUT OF GOD . ” JAMES 1 ( 18 ) : ” OF HIS OWN WILL begat he us with the word . ” So according to the Bible : It is NOT OF MAN’S WILL , BUT ONLY GOD’S WILL ! EPHESIANS 1 ( 11 ) : ” Him who works ALL THINGS AFTER the counsel of HIS OWN WILL . ” : ALL THINGS AFTER HIS WILL LEAVES NO PLACE FOR OUR OWN SUPPOSED FREE WILL ! So this teaching that man has his own free will is completely contrary to scripture : It falsely exalts man with power that he in truth does not have. Well you might ask : Why did not God not give man his own free will ? HEBREWS 12 ( 2 ) : ” Looking unto JESUS , THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! ” : So CHRIST IS THE SOLE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! THERE IS NO ONE BETTER QUALIFIED THAN CHRIST TO TRAIN US : CERTAINLY NOT OURSELVES : SO THIS IS PRECISELY WHY CHRIST DID NOT GIVE US A FREE WILL , BECAUSE ONLY CHRIST CAN DO A PROPER JOB ! Only CHRIST knows what things we need to learn , we do not know these things : so what in the world would we do with a free will if such a thing existed : Answer : We wouldn’t have a clue , which is of course why CHRIST did not give us a free will : WE ARE JUST CLAY IN THE GREAT POTTERS HANDS , and thank God , no one can do a better job then God! PHILIPPIANS 1 ( 6 ) : ” He which began a good work in you will continue it unto the day of CHRIST . ” : He began it , not us , and he will finish it not us ! PHILIPPIANS 2 ( 13 ) : ” For IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU , BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE ” : GOD NOT US ! This is solely the work of God : to say that man has any part in it is falsely exalting man : usurping the work of God and falsely placing it in man’s hands : an obvious blasphemy against God , and it is widely taught in the mainstream churches, and needs to be exposed for the blasphemy that it is ! EPHESIANS 2 ( 8-10 ) : 8 : ” For by grace are you saved through faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift OF GOD ” 9 : ” NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST ” 10 : ” For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP ” Nothing of ourselves! ROMANS 13 ( 1 ) : ” THERE IS NO POWER BUT GOD ! ” No room here for man to have his own power of free will : No power but God. PSALMS 65 ( 4 ) : ” Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST AND CAUSEST TO APPROACH UNTO THEE . ” : God chooses his elect , and God causes them to come to him by his call, not us by our own supposed free will : totally unscriptural ! Choosing God would of course be a good thing to do, and if we really did choose God of our own free will we would be at least partially righteous, because choosing God would be a good thing, but such is definitely not the case as the Bible clearly says there are non righteous because we do not have the power to come to God of our own will as CHRIST clearly says in JOHN 6 ( 44 ) : ” No man can come to me unless THE FATHER DRAWS HIM . ” : ONLY THE FATHER CAN DRAW HIM : HE CANNOT COME OF HIS OWN POWER ! STOP BLASPHEMING AND SAYING THAT MAN SAVES HIMSELF BY HIS OWN FREE WILL WORK OF CHOOSING GOD : IT IS TOTALLY AND SOLELY THE WORK OF GOD !
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If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
God knows the future, because it's spread out in front of Him like a map. Just as you can look anywhere you please on a map, and point to any specific place, so He can look at the map and
( 7 ) : ” THE GREATEST FALSE TEACHING OF THE CHURCHES ! “
August 17, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment
The standard teaching in the present day churches is that yes, we cannot save ourselves : That the only thing we have is our own free will, to either choose or reject God . Well does the Bible teach that we choose God of our own free will ? JOHN 1 ( 13) : ” Which were born NOT OF THE WILL OF MAN , BUT OF GOD ! ” ROMANS 9 ( 16 ) : ” So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH , BUT OF GOD . ” JAMES 1 ( 18 ) : ” OF HIS OWN WILL begat he us with the word . ” So according to the Bible : It is NOT OF MAN’S WILL , BUT ONLY GOD’S WILL ! EPHESIANS 1 ( 11 ) : ” Him who works ALL THINGS AFTER the counsel of HIS OWN WILL . ” : ALL THINGS AFTER HIS WILL LEAVES NO PLACE FOR OUR OWN SUPPOSED FREE WILL ! So this teaching that man has his own free will is completely contrary to scripture : It falsely exalts man with power that he in truth does not have. Well you might ask : Why did not God not give man his own free will ? HEBREWS 12 ( 2 ) : ” Looking unto JESUS , THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! ” : So CHRIST IS THE SOLE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! THERE IS NO ONE BETTER QUALIFIED THAN CHRIST TO TRAIN US : CERTAINLY NOT OURSELVES : SO THIS IS PRECISELY WHY CHRIST DID NOT GIVE US A FREE WILL , BECAUSE ONLY CHRIST CAN DO A PROPER JOB ! Only CHRIST knows what things we need to learn , we do not know these things : so what in the world would we do with a free will if such a thing existed : Answer : We wouldn’t have a clue , which is of course why CHRIST did not give us a free will : WE ARE JUST CLAY IN THE GREAT POTTERS HANDS , and thank God , no one can do a better job then God! PHILIPPIANS 1 ( 6 ) : ” He which began a good work in you will continue it unto the day of CHRIST . ” : He began it , not us , and he will finish it not us ! PHILIPPIANS 2 ( 13 ) : ” For IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU , BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE ” : GOD NOT US ! This is solely the work of God : to say that man has any part in it is falsely exalting man : usurping the work of God and falsely placing it in man’s hands : an obvious blasphemy against God , and it is widely taught in the mainstream churches, and needs to be exposed for the blasphemy that it is ! EPHESIANS 2 ( 8-10 ) : 8 : ” For by grace are you saved through faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift OF GOD ” 9 : ” NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST ” 10 : ” For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP ” Nothing of ourselves! ROMANS 13 ( 1 ) : ” THERE IS NO POWER BUT GOD ! ” No room here for man to have his own power of free will : No power but God. PSALMS 65 ( 4 ) : ” Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST AND CAUSEST TO APPROACH UNTO THEE . ” : God chooses his elect , and God causes them to come to him by his call, not us by our own supposed free will : totally unscriptural ! Choosing God would of course be a good thing to do, and if we really did choose God of our own free will we would be at least partially righteous, because choosing God would be a good thing, but such is definitely not the case as the Bible clearly says there are non righteous because we do not have the power to come to God of our own will as CHRIST clearly says in JOHN 6 ( 44 ) : ” No man can come to me unless THE FATHER DRAWS HIM . ” : ONLY THE FATHER CAN DRAW HIM : HE CANNOT COME OF HIS OWN POWER ! STOP BLASPHEMING AND SAYING THAT MAN SAVES HIMSELF BY HIS OWN FREE WILL WORK OF CHOOSING GOD : IT IS TOTALLY AND SOLELY THE WORK OF GOD !
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point to any specific event He wants to.
But that in no way implies that He predestines you to salvation or damnation, as that is still your choice. He merely sees you making the choice. That's not the same thing as forcing you to do so.
The fact that He sees you eating an ice cream at 2pm tomorrow doesn't mean He forced you to eat an ice cream tomorrow. You could choose to have a coffee instead, and He'll just watch you having a coffee at 2pm tomorrow.
What is a mystery is how He can have a plan of salvation if all He's doing is watching 7 billion people drinking coffee or eating ice cream at 2pm tomorrow. He'd have to be more active than that, otherwise this Plan of His depends on nothing more than the collective free choices of humanity, most of the choices being inconsequential eg. eating ice cream, adding up to some sort of eternal Plan.
He's in the mix somehow, and so is the devil, but don't ask me how. He does know what you'll do - whether you'll CHOOSE for Him or against Him.
I make the claim my own father turned up in my own room the night he died. He started with an apology for the way he'd treated me, including saying at one stage "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!" and "I can't believe how cruel and stupid I've been" and "I did it deliberately" (ie. destroyed my confidence) etc.
However he also said at one point "I always was doomed! I didn't really have any choice!" I argued back (and I was an atheist back then, nearly 40 years ago), saying "That can't be right!" He replied "Oh, it's right, all right, you can see that from here!"
But later in the same exchange, he admitted "I was WILLING!". I'd say, very willing, since I was on the receiving end of his cruelty for 20 years. My sister tried to commit suicide twice when she was about 14, as I'd moved away from home and she copped more of it as I was no longer there to be the floor mat. Fortunately she survived both attempts.
It's a mystery, this peculiar mix of predestination and free will. But even if God watches us do things, we've still got free will, and we're still WILLING. Watching a thief break into a home and steal is not the same thing as making him break into the home and steal.
Knowing all future events does not mean you cause all those events.
Likewise, God can know the future, but those decisions are still yours to make.
( 7 ) : ” THE GREATEST FALSE TEACHING OF THE CHURCHES ! “
August 17, 2017gigoboy777 Leave a comment
The standard teaching in the present day churches is that yes, we cannot save ourselves : That the only thing we have is our own free will, to either choose or reject God . Well does the Bible teach that we choose God of our own free will ? JOHN 1 ( 13) : ” Which were born NOT OF THE WILL OF MAN , BUT OF GOD ! ” ROMANS 9 ( 16 ) : ” So then IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH , BUT OF GOD . ” JAMES 1 ( 18 ) : ” OF HIS OWN WILL begat he us with the word . ” So according to the Bible : It is NOT OF MAN’S WILL , BUT ONLY GOD’S WILL ! EPHESIANS 1 ( 11 ) : ” Him who works ALL THINGS AFTER the counsel of HIS OWN WILL . ” : ALL THINGS AFTER HIS WILL LEAVES NO PLACE FOR OUR OWN SUPPOSED FREE WILL ! So this teaching that man has his own free will is completely contrary to scripture : It falsely exalts man with power that he in truth does not have. Well you might ask : Why did not God not give man his own free will ? HEBREWS 12 ( 2 ) : ” Looking unto JESUS , THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! ” : So CHRIST IS THE SOLE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH ! THERE IS NO ONE BETTER QUALIFIED THAN CHRIST TO TRAIN US : CERTAINLY NOT OURSELVES : SO THIS IS PRECISELY WHY CHRIST DID NOT GIVE US A FREE WILL , BECAUSE ONLY CHRIST CAN DO A PROPER JOB ! Only CHRIST knows what things we need to learn , we do not know these things : so what in the world would we do with a free will if such a thing existed : Answer : We wouldn’t have a clue , which is of course why CHRIST did not give us a free will : WE ARE JUST CLAY IN THE GREAT POTTERS HANDS , and thank God , no one can do a better job then God! PHILIPPIANS 1 ( 6 ) : ” He which began a good work in you will continue it unto the day of CHRIST . ” : He began it , not us , and he will finish it not us ! PHILIPPIANS 2 ( 13 ) : ” For IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU , BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE ” : GOD NOT US ! This is solely the work of God : to say that man has any part in it is falsely exalting man : usurping the work of God and falsely placing it in man’s hands : an obvious blasphemy against God , and it is widely taught in the mainstream churches, and needs to be exposed for the blasphemy that it is ! EPHESIANS 2 ( 8-10 ) : 8 : ” For by grace are you saved through faith, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift OF GOD ” 9 : ” NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST ” 10 : ” For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP ” Nothing of ourselves! ROMANS 13 ( 1 ) : ” THERE IS NO POWER BUT GOD ! ” No room here for man to have his own power of free will : No power but God. PSALMS 65 ( 4 ) : ” Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST AND CAUSEST TO APPROACH UNTO THEE . ” : God chooses his elect , and God causes them to come to him by his call, not us by our own supposed free will : totally unscriptural ! Choosing God would of course be a good thing to do, and if we really did choose God of our own free will we would be at least partially righteous, because choosing God would be a good thing, but such is definitely not the case as the Bible clearly says there are non righteous because we do not have the power to come to God of our own will as CHRIST clearly says in JOHN 6 ( 44 ) : ” No man can come to me unless THE FATHER DRAWS HIM . ” : ONLY THE FATHER CAN DRAW HIM : HE CANNOT COME OF HIS OWN POWER ! STOP BLASPHEMING AND SAYING THAT MAN SAVES HIMSELF BY HIS OWN FREE WILL WORK OF CHOOSING GOD : IT IS TOTALLY AND SOLELY THE WORK OF GOD !
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However, I agree that if the future actually exists, it means you are predestined in a way to it. Your future is decided for you, even if God is not involved.
I experiment a bit with this by claiming that the future consists of infinite possibilities, and God knows each possibility in absolute detail. In fact, maybe he even lives in them, In some sort of multiple universe idea.
"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
God said that he declared the end from the beginning. Knowing what we are going to do has nothing to do with controlling what we do. God is outside of time."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
"No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
You are in or out with God, you are for Him or against Him. There is no fence sitting allowed. Either we represent God all the time in everything we say or we do not represent Him at all. So God knows in advance what we will do because He tests us."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
Hunters in a dry land know the big game will be going to the watering hole. God can predict more complex patterns than this."No one—even God—can know in advance what a (libertarian) free-will agent will choose. For if He did know in advance what you will choose, then you are not free to choose."
If you disagree, please provide an argument (or proof or evidence) why with Scripture & or logic, reason, etc.
Further comments by the person quoted above follow:
"For example, suppose God knows you are going to eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. That implies that you CANNOT refrain from eating an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow. For if through your free will, you could refrain and did refrain, then God didn't know that you would eat an ice-cream cone at 2 P.M. tomorrow."
"I should also make clear that God not knowing in advance what we will choose in no way implies that he is not omniscient. For God DOES know all that is possible to know. No one can know the future (in the absolute sense of "know") because the future does not yet exist, and so there is nothing to know."
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