No new Mosques?

[MrLuther]

Although I am sure that the religion of the original pagan worshipers of Mecca was more peaceful and humane than Islam.

Uhm....actually, no. Islam was a major improvement upon the pagan religion and practices of the Arabs pre-islam. That's how messed up it was.

 

[Crypto]

LOL. You can't even tell us his name, let along his credentials.

Personally I don't value the opinions of Muslim clerics. I'm a Baha'i, remember? By 'credentials' I was looking for *academic* credentials which might establish his credibility in these matters. But it is pretty clear from that vid that he is nothing more than an Islamophobic Christian evangelist.



Really? Surely you can produce the texts in my religion which require this?



They were probably more peaceful and humane than you are, in any case.

I can't tell you his name because you'd try to kill him. I know how the "religion of peace" works. You are a follower of the pedophile. That's all I new to know about your beliefs.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I can't tell you his name because you'd try to kill him.

You can't actually believe that can you? Accusing a person you have never met of being a potential killer just waiting for someone to bad mouth Islam (a religion they don't even practice) so they can off the person. How silly.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Uhm....actually, no. Islam was a major improvement upon the pagan religion and practices of the Arabs pre-islam. That's how messed up it was.

The pre-islamic Arabs made my ancestors the Tatars of the Golden Horde (Mongols) look like a pack of Girls Scouts.

They were quite easily the most Barbaric people to ever walk the Earth. And that includes the Arab tribes that Claimed to be Jewish or Christian.

It was a very brutal land and home to very brutal people. In just 20 years the Qur'an united them and brought peace to the Arabian Peninsula.

 

[Crypto]

Uhm....actually, no. Islam was a major improvement upon the pagan religion and practices of the Arabs pre-islam. That's how messed up it was.

I disagree. Nothing can be worst than Islam. Look at the way in which Muhammad's soldiers treated old people:

She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter [and another] were also taken. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope between her legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two). (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 980)

I am sure that old pagans were more merciful than this.

 

[Crypto]

You can't actually believe that can you? Accusing a person you have never met of being a potential killer just waiting for someone to bad mouth Islam (a religion they don't even practice) so they can off the person. How silly.

Islam teaches you to kill apostates and to kill those who criticize Islam. So, of course I can tell that she (or her brothers) are not trustworthy. Islam is about murder and rape. What good can come of you, people?

 

[Crypto]

The pre-islamic Arabs made my ancestors the Tatars of the Golden Horde (Mongols) look like a pack of Girls Scouts.

They were quite easily the most Barbaric people to ever walk the Earth. And that includes the Arab tribes that Claimed to be Jewish or Christian.

It was a very brutal land and home to very brutal people. In just 20 years the Qur'an united them and brought peace to the Arabian Peninsula.

Lies. In just 20 years you slaughtered countless innocent people in the name of your false religion. Now you are doing the same thing all over the world.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I disagree. Nothing can be worst than Islam. Look at the way in which Muhammad's soldiers treated old people:

She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter [and another] were also taken. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope between her legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two). (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 980)

I am sure that old pagans were more merciful than this.

Look at what you are using as a Source.

You may want to learn that the writings of Ibn Ishaq were never saved. None of his works were preserved, what is passed down were copies of edited restored versions. Even Hisham admitted to filling in gaps as to what he thought Ibn Ishaq wrote.


While Ibn Ishaq is known to have written the first Biography of Muhammad(saws) it was destroyed before it was ever copied.

Here is a youtube video explaining the problems with Ibn Ishaq. It is on Youtube by an esteemed Islamic Scholar so it must be the true Muslim view.

[youtube]wsmSDIw5MDY[/youtube]

 

[Crypto]

Look at what you are using as a Source.

You may want to learn that the writings of Ibn Ishaq were never saved. None of his works were preserved, what is passed down were copies of edited restored versions. Even Hisham admitted to filling in gaps as to what he thought Ibn Ishaq wrote.


While Ibn Ishaq is known to have written the first Biography of Muhammad(saws) it was destroyed before it was ever copied.

Here is a youtube video explaining the problems with Ibn Ishaq. It is on Youtube by an esteemed Islamic Scholar so it must be the true Muslim view.

If you disregard Ibn Ishaq you might as well disregard Muhammad, since all of the biographies of Muhammad are based on the work of Ibn Ishaq. This work survived in fragments that the rest of the biographers of Muhammad used to build their own versions.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Lies. In just 20 years you slaughtered countless innocent people in the name of your false religion. Now you are doing the same thing all over the world.

Virtually every non Muslim killed by Muslims in the past 20 years was 9/11 by 29 individuals that do not represent Islam.

In the same period of time how many Muslims have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by Non-Muslims.

As an American engaged in combat during Vietnam I killed way more innocent people with napalm and ait-to-ground missiles than any Muslim has killed since 9/11.

Come to think of it I have not harmed even one person since accepting Islam and have become an anti-War Pacifist.

Can only speak for myself but it seems my pre-Islamic past was more Violent than what my Islamic years are.

 

[WoodrowX2]

If you disregard Ibn Ishaq you might as well disregard Muhammad, since all of the biographies of Muhammad are based on the work of Ibn Ishaq. The work survived in fragments that the rest of the biographers of Muhammad used to build their own versions.

You said the magic words: to build their own versions.

To learn the History of Muhammad one reads the Ahadith, which pretty much detail every day of his life for the last 20 years of his life.

The Biographies based on Ibn Ishaq are quite unreliable.

You may know some Muslims that find them to be Credible, but I don't know of any.

It is sad as Ibn Ishaq probably did write a very accurate Biography.

 

[Crypto]

Look at what you are using as a Source.

You may want to learn that the writings of Ibn Ishaq were never saved. None of his works were preserved, what is passed down were copies of edited restored versions. Even Hisham admitted to filling in gaps as to what he thought Ibn Ishaq wrote.


While Ibn Ishaq is known to have written the first Biography of Muhammad(saws) it was destroyed before it was ever copied.

Here is a youtube video explaining the problems with Ibn Ishaq. It is on Youtube by an esteemed Islamic Scholar so it must be the true Muslim view.

If you want to know the true face of your religion, watch this video. It is beautifully explained:

Fitna - Full movie - YouTube

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Islam teaches you to kill apostates and to kill those who criticize Islam. So, of course I can tell that she (or her brothers) are not trustworthy. Islam is about murder and rape. What good can come of you, people?

You believe Islam teaches that but she doesn't. Even if she happened to agree with your take on Islam that still wouldn't obligate her to kill the person in question because SHE ISN'T A MUSLIM. You seem to be missing that point so I put it in bold. Bahai is actually it's own separate religion. Bahai =/= Islam. Ask most any Muslim, especially the right wing ones you believe represent true Islam, and they will tell you this. Ask any Bahai and they will say the same. Bahai do not follow the Islamic shariah law and they have their own Scriptures. You can easily verify this for yourself here:

The Bahá’í Faith - The international website of the Bahá’ís of the world

Or here:

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WoodrowX2]

If you want to know the true face of your religion, watch this video. It is beautifully explained:

Fitna - Full movie - YouTube

It is an interesting Video. If you believe it to be true, I see that as your loss.

Like all videos produced by those with an agenda to destroy Islam, I find it as reliable as your concept of the "Black-Stone" Fragments.

So far I have not seen you post anything to indicate you have any knowledge of Islam.

But in fairness, before accepting Islam I too hated Islam with a passion and did believe all that I heard about it.

I find this video to be closer to the Truth than the Hate Videos are

[youtube]U3RLI6efPGw[/youtube]

I believe you are sincere in your hatred and that you do believe Islam to be Evil. I happen to find a different picture than what you see.

I just hope you do not become engulfed with hatred and allow hate to prevent your finding Beauty and Joy in this world.

 

[Crypto]

It is an interesting Video. If you believe it to be true, I see that as your loss.

Like all videos produced by those with an agenda to destroy Islam, I find it as reliable as your concept of the "Black-Stone" Fragments.

So far I have not seen you post anything to indicate you have any knowledge of Islam.

But in fairness, before accepting Islam I too hated Islam with a passion and did believe all that I heard about it.

I find this video to be closer to the Truth than the Hate Videos are


I believe you are sincere in your hatred and that you do believe Islam to be Evil. I happen to find a different picture than what you see.

I just hope you do not become engulfed with hatred and allow hate to prevent your finding Beauty and Joy in this world.

I don't hate you. On the contrary, I hope you meet Jesus someday. I'll pray for you. What I dislike is your ideology, simply because I am not OK with people who want to kill me and enslave me. Jesus freed us from hate. If you knew the true God, you'd also be free from hatred.

 

[smaneck]

I disagree. Nothing can be worst than Islam. Look at the way in which Muhammad's soldiers treated old people:

She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter [and another] were also taken. Zayd ordered Qays to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope between her legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two). (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 980)

I am sure that old pagans were more merciful than this.

You do realize that drawing and quartering (which is what this is called) was practiced in England up through the 18th century? It was still on the books until 1870, although in the 19th century quartering was done posthumously. In any case, this story is not found in any of the hadith collections and for that reason most Muslim scholars doubt its authenticity. Ibn Ishaq is not the most reliable source.

 

[smaneck]

Jesus freed us from hate. If you knew the true God, you'd also be free from hatred.

Could have fooled me. I've never seen more hatred spewed forth on this list than your postings here.
I'll believe you are free from hate when I believe Christian Identity, the Nazis and the KKK are free from hatred.

 

[smaneck]

LAWL
"It's on a random website on the Internet, so it must be true!"

You realize I'm not suggesting it is true, only that there are some Hindus arguing along lines?

 

[smaneck]

I do not know of any Muslim who claims the Qur'an is original. We believe it is the same message that was given to all Prophets, Adam, Moses, Abraham, David, Solomon, Jesus, Muhammad (Peace be upon all of them) it does not contain anything that was not revealed in the past.

I don't think that is what he meant by the Qur'an not being original. Kenzoo is following an evangelical school that tries to argue that the final canonized version done by Uthman's committee was an interpolated version of the original Qur'an.

 

[LoAmmi]

Jesus freed us from hate. If you knew the true God, you'd also be free from hatred.

No. I'm sorry, but Christians are as freed from hate as any other group of people.