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That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple. That's different from bowing towards the former temple of Aphrodite (mandatory for Muslims) or kissing a meteorite shaped as a vagina (popular among Muslims).
What's next? Are you going to call the steeples on churches phallic symbols?
The Kaaba was never a temple to Aphrodite. Muslims believe it was built by Abraham and Ismael and dedicated to the worship of God. Only later was turned into a house of idols just as the Temple was turned into 'a den of thieves' according to Jesus.
According to Islamic tradition pilgrims from all over Arabia used to come to Mecca to worship. What do you think they worshiped?
This is what John of Damascus wrote in 730 A.D.:
You say that Abraham build the Ka'aba. However, you have absolutely no evidence for that. It is just an empty claim, like most Islamic claims.
I told you Arabs turned it into a house of idols.
Taking John of Damascus' word for what the Arabs were doing is a little like taking the Romans word for it that what happened in the Christian eucharist was a form of cannibalism. Sorry but if the black stone is a meteorite, it isn't the head of Aphrodite.
You are right. There is no historical evidence that Abraham even existed. I believe in his existence based purely because my scriptures say so, same as you.
That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple. That's different from bowing towards the former temple of Aphrodite (mandatory for Muslims) or kissing a meteorite shaped as a vagina (popular among Muslims).
Leviticus 16
2 The Lord said to Moses: Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die. For I will appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.
Exodus 25
22 There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.
Taking John of Damascus' word for what the Arabs were doing is a little like taking the Romans word for it that what happened in the Christian eucharist was a form of cannibalism. Sorry but if the black stone is a meteorite, it isn't the head of Aphrodite.
OK
sorry interrupt your explanations, just NOTE for you, that Christians face alter/cross is not God's command but it's church command.
The church applies this rule is to harmonize people who serve God in the same faith.
Both Christians and the Church acknowledge this...so, it's not God's command, for God Himself had said "You shall not bow down to their gods or serve them or do after their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break down their pillars and images."(Exodus 23:24)
please understand the different between the Church command, and God's command.
That makes me wondering is... Allah asked the follower to bow/even sujood face on Kaa'ba, Hajar al-aswad particularly
Catholic is a religion, base on God but rules and found by human being.
Understand, thank you.
the different is only, God never asked HIs follower to worship/bow to anything beside Him, and God's direct command to His follower regarding prayer was:
(Matthew 6:5-6)
Prayer
5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
yes, maybe.. because pray is our communication with God privately.. and as a non-Muslims I know that God would never wanted His creature to worship other than He.
So curious, how come there are God(the True One) command human being to worship face on something like in the pict above..
no offence
You may not have noticed. The member (Smaneck) you are replying back to is not Muslim.
She also probably has more justification to be anti-Muslim than any member on this forum.
It's always different when ones own religion does it. It's only bad when other people do it. That's the basic law of religious one upsmanship. God's presence is actually in ones own temple just not the other guys.That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple.
Yet its fine to take Muhammeds word that that Christian scruptures are all altered and unreliable. The point you've made can be used against him.
Its also an Irony, that Islam builds most of its bedrock on claiming how "Corrupted" Judeo-Christian scripture is, yet its Islamic "scripture" itself that twists and alters everything from the ground up, changing Biblical stories, changing the Judaic Line of lineage to Ishmael over Isaac,
denying the Crucifiction
the Bible specifically warns about false prophets, who will preach a diffrent version of Christ and deny the Crucifiction
It's always different when ones own religion does it. It's only bad when other people do it. That's the basic law of religious one upsmanship. God's presence is actually in ones own temple just not the other guys.
I must admit the terms Russia and Mosques, seem incompatible in the first place.
Russia is in quite a predicament when it is now said, at least in this report, that Russia has allowed itself to need the Muslim immigrants. Being unable to survive without them now was not a wise move early on.
You may not have noticed. The member (Smaneck) you are replying back to is not Muslim.
She also probably has more justification to be anti-Muslim than any member on this forum. But she is one of the most repectable people I have ever come across on a forum as she sticks to facts and not accusations nor opinions.
http://www.teachislam.com/dmdocument...rram_Murad.pdf"But Islam is not the name of a mere “Religion”, nor is Muslim the title of a “Nation”. The truth is that Islam is a revolutionary ideology which seeks to alter the social order of the entire world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. “Muslims” is the title of that “International Revolutionary Party” organized by Islam to carry out its revolutionary programme. “Jihad” refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Nation/Party brings into play in order to achieve its objectives."
"It is to serve this end that Islam seeks to press into service all the forces which can bring about such a revolution. The term which covers the use of all these forces is ‘Jihad’. To alter people’s outlook and spark a mental and intellectual revolution through the medium of speech (*) and the written word is a form of Jihad. To change the old tyrannical system and establish a just new order by the power of the sword is also Jihad, as is spending wealth and undergoing physical exertion for this cause."
"Those who affirm their faith in this ideology become members of the party of Islam and enjoy equal status and equal rights, without distinctions of class, race, ethnicity or nationality. In this manner, an International Revolutionary Party is born, to which the Qur’an gives the title of Hizb-Allah* (literally, “The Party of Allah”, otherwise known as the Ummah (Nation) of Islam. As soon as this party is formed, it launches the struggle to attain the purpose for which it exists. The rationale for its existence is that it should endeavour to destroy the hegemony of an un-Islamic system, and establish in its place the rule of that social and cultural order which regulates life with balanced and humane laws, referred to by the Qur’an by the comprehensive term “the Word of Allah”. If this party fails to strive to effect a change in the government and establish the Islamic system of government, then it loses its very raison detre, for this party exists for no other purpose. There is no other purpose for this party but to strive for the cause of Allah."
"Hence a person or a group are compelled by the innate demands of their faith to strive for the elimination of the rule of an opposing ideology, and for the setting up of a government which follows the programme and policies of their own faith-for under the authority of a government which professes inimical doctrines, that person or group cannot fully act upon their own convictions. If those people evade their duty of actively striving for this purpose, the clear implication is that they are hypocrites, and not sincere in their faith."
Pretending that Muslims are worshiping the vagina of some ancient goddess no one even knows about save a few scholars is about as absurd as the people dissing Christian for having Christmas trees claiming that we are actually worshiping some long forgotten Canaanite goddess we don't even know the name of. Problem is worship is a matter of intention and will so it doesn't work that way. Muslims , rightly or wrongly, trace that Kaaba to one of their Prophets (Abraham though some even say it had earlier origins having been built by Adam but that Abraham re-built it). Their intention in making use of it and kissing the stone is to honor Allah and the prophetic tradition not worshiping a goddesses vagina. Even IF it were such a thing in the past it isn't now.
I wonder if people would reject Christianity if they found out one day that the Temple of Solomon was built near or on top of the ruins of a "pagan" temple. Things like that happen all the time so it isn't too far fetched that it could be the case. Most of the great medieval and ancient Churches of both Eastern and Western Europe were built over older "pagan" holy sites for example.
In the first place Allat is not Aphrodite, the Greek goddess of love. Herodutus appears to have been somewhat confused about this but then he thought Mitra was Aphrodite as well. (Mitra was a pre-Zoroastrian god of covenants and the sun.) While there was an idol of Allat in the Kaaba (as their were idols of all of the pre-Islamic Arab deities), Allat's temple was in Ta'if not Mecca.
<disgusting sexual projection snipped>
Genesis 25:
12 This is the account of the family line of Abraham’s son Ishmael, whom Sarah’s slave, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham.
13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. 17 Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. 18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt, as you go toward Ashur. (Genesis 25)
Havila is Syria. Shur is on the Arabian Peninsula. The twelve sons of Ismael named in the Bible are, according to wiki,
Nebaioth Nabit (means First-born or First Fruit in Arabic نبيت or نبيط pronounced Nabeet)
Kedar, (in Arabic قيدر pronounced Qaidar) father of the Qedarites, a northern Arab tribe that controlled the area between the Persian Gulf and the Sinai Peninsula. According to tradition, he is the ancestor of the Quraysh tribe, and thus of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad.[10]
Adbeel, (means God's servant in Arabic عبداللهestablished a tribe in northwest Arabia.
Mibsam (means Smiley in Arabic مبسم pronounced Mubsem)
Mishma (means Obeyed in Arabic مسموع pronounced Masmou')
Dumah (means Sand-Hill in Arabic دومه Doomah)
Massa (means Night Fall in Arabic مساء pronounced Masa') father of a nomadic tribe that inhabited the Arabian desert toward Babylonia.
Hadar (means The Rolling-Stone one of the many names of Lion in Arabic حيدر pronounced Haidar)
Tema (means "The Good News" or "The Right Hand Man" in Arabic تيمن pronounced Tayman)
Jetur (means Revolt or "Rebel" in Arabic يثور pronounced Yathur)
Naphish (means Genuine in Arabic نفيس pronounced Nafees)
Kedemah (means The Front Man or "Scout" in Arabic قدامه pronounced Qudamah)
Now, do all Arabs descend from Ishmael? Probably not. An Arab is merely someone who speaks Arabic as their mother tongue, whatever their ancestry. The Palestinians, for instance, are more likely descendants from the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel or Samaria.
Really? And what exactly did John of Damascus have to say about Baha'u'llah and His Teachings?
LOL. My, aren't we paranoid? I was merely alluding to the fact I'm a Baha'i, not a Muslim. Methinks you are projecting your own evil motivations on others.
God said that a tree can be known by its fruits. You, Muslims, kill other people because of their religion, you molest little children because your prophet did it before you, you think you have the right to impose your barbaric views on others. That's the truth and it is there for everyone to see. Do you want me to prove that your Quran has been altered? I can do it fairly easily.
Muslims seldom admit that they are Muslims if they are engaged in cultural jihad, as she is. Cultural jihad is the spread of Islam in the non-Islamic world. It is like preaching, but it is not exactly the same, since when you are engaged in cultural jihad it is OK for you to lie about any topic and even about you being a Muslim. They are allowed to do so because they have a concept called Taqqiya:
"Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them."
If you go to the "moderate" Islamic websites you'll find that almost all of them allow you to read commentaries to the Koran written by a scholar called Maududi. This shows how crafty they are when it comes to cultural jihad. Maududi wrote several books. These are some excerpts, from an Islamic website:
http://www.teachislam.com/dmdocument...rram_Murad.pdf
TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Taqiyya and Lying
But they are highly skilled-
let us give credit where it is due! They have managed to paint such a dark and gruesome picture of us that their own true colours have been overshadowed and
obscured. Yet we should be stunned by our own simplicity and gullibility. When we saw this
picture of ourselves painted by the foreigners, we were so overwhelmed by it that we never
thought to look beyond it to see the face of the painter. Instead, we assumed the role of
apologists, pleading that we knew nothing of war, but were like the mendicants and wandering
mystics. We claimed that our only concern was religious debate and to win people over to our
faith. We admitted that in the past we may have fought in self-defence, but we had now
renounced all that.
We declared that Jihad referred only to the battle of words, waged with tongues and pens;
sabre-rattling and gun shooting were the privilege of others.
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