No New Commandment

Fervent said:

It's not old wine made new, but new wine.

Click to expand...

And new wine put into new ( covenant) wineskins.

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17

@HARK! forgive me for saying so, but it seems to me that in order for the majority of Christians to go along with what you're saying, there would first have to be a rewrite of Catholic, Orthodox and virtually all Protestant theology across the board.

HARK! said:

Appeal to argumentum ad populum?

Click to expand...

No. That would be saying you're wrong based on the majority view. I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm saying it seems to me that 99% of Christians would have to unlearn and rewrite their theology in order to be able to go along with what you're saying.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ JOHN 13:34 IS A NEW APPLICATION OF LEVITICUS 19:18

For me I read John 13:34 as a new take on something old (Leviticus 19:18). For me the scriptures teach that God is love *1 John 4:8 and Jesus is God *John 1:1-4; 14. Now look at all these scriptures together with the Greek...

John 13:34 I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

The Greek word used for "new" here is καινός (kainós - G2537) and means "refresh" or anew or "newly invented"

Applying the Greek meaning to the above scriptures, we read, God is love; God is the very definition of what love is. Jesus is God. Therefore, Jesus is the very definition of what love is and how we are to love another. John 13:34 is a new commandment or καινός "a refreshed new application of the old commandment" of what it means to love another as Jesus who is God and the very definition of love is commanding His disciples to love one another as God loves us!

In this aspect John 13:34 is a new commandment made anew or refreshed from old testament scriptures from Leviticus 19:18 demonstrated through Jesus who is God who is the very definition of what love is. Loving one another however has it's origins in the old testament scriptures but loving each other like God loves us is how we are to truly love each other which is fresh and a new application of Leviticus 19:18.

Hope this makes sense.

Click to expand...

Your response here...

HARK! said:

This should spell it out even more clearly.

(CLV) Hb 8:8
For, blaming them, He is saying, "Lo! the days are coming," the Lord is saying, "And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new (Kainos) covenant,

The author of Hebrews is quoting directly from Jeremiah 31:31.

(CLV) Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new (Chadash) covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Here is how TWOT defines the word Chadash.

View attachment 309713

You can read the rest of this entry here:

Theological wordbook of the Old Testament : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

However you will have to create an account. With all that they have to offer; you'll be glad if you do.

The translators of the LXX also used Kainos to render the word Chadash.

Click to expand...

Well, to be honest I do not think it spells it out more clearly at all but allow me to explain why from the scriptures. What you posted as a definition is pretty similar to what I already posted as a definition of kainós in the post you are quoting from, so we are in agreement there, but your post misses the point and application to the scripture contexts of the post you are quoting from which is directly related to the OP scripture John 13:34 applied to Leviticus 19:18 which is also a different context of the example you provided in Hebrews 8:10 to Jeremiah 31:31 which is unchanged verbatim application.

What you provided in your post is only another examples of καινός (kainós - G2537) applied to Hebrews 8:10 and a simple word definition outside of the scriptures context which I already provided which is used also in John 13:34. It is the scripture context however that determine both the application of καινός and the interpretation of the scriptures, keeping in mind here that where the Greek word καινός (kainós - G2537) means "refresh" or anew or "newly invented" separated from the scripture contexts does not determine interpretation. It is the scripture contexts that word definitions are applied to that determines interpretation not definition outside of context to which it is applied.

The καινός commandment of John 13:34 in the post you are quoting from is in context to something new taken from something old (Leviticus 19:18). In your example of Hebrews where καινός is used, and I agree that the καινός "new"; renew; newly invented" covenant of Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34. note, the scripture contexts and subject matter are different (unlike Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:31) and it is the contexts of both John 13:34 and Jeremiah 31:31 that determines interpretation (not word meaning outside of context).

So, why is the contexts of καινός in John 13:34 different in it's application and context to Leviticus 19:18 which is different to the example of Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:31?

What makes καινός in John 13:34 different in it's application and context to Leviticus 19:18 is that both are commandments to love our neighbor as ourselves but John 13:34 context of καινός is to loving our neighbor like God (Jesus) loves us which gives a new or renewed or newly invented meaning to Leviticus 19:18 which is not in Leviticus 19:18. The context therefore is that we are to love our neighbor as God who is the very definition of love has loved us. This is the new expanded meaning of Leviticus 19:18 which is not written in Leviticus 19:18. The application of καινός (kainós - G2537) in John 13:34 has different context to Hebrews 8:10 which is simply repeating Jeremiah 31:31 verbatim and has the same context as Jeremiah 31:31.

Can you see the difference in context and application how καινός is used between John 13:34 and Leviticus 19:18 versus Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:31 (which is simply verbatim application)?

Take Care.

HARK! said:

Where did you get that number?

What did you think of the comparison between Chadash and Kainos, in Hebrews 8:8, the LXX and Jeremiah 31:31?

What did Yahshua say of traditions? I prefer to seek out the truth with the help of YHWH over trusting in men.

Click to expand...

I admit I used "99%" figuratively for emphasis.
So I'll change that to the vast majority, based on my understanding of overall Christian theology. And again, I'm not saying what's correct or incorrect. I'm just saying I believe due to established theology, you're probably going to run into a lot disagreement, and that's unlikely to change.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Jn 13:34
"A new precept am I giving to you, that you be loving one another; according as I love you, that you also be loving one another.


(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

So why did Yahshua call this a new commandment?

He didn't.

That is how the word was translated into English. In the Greek, we see two words, with two different meanings. translated into one English word.

The word kainos, which is used in John 13:34, is not the word used for new with respect to age, or neos.

G2537

καινός kainós, kahee-nos'; of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G3501 is properly so with respect to age:—new.



G3501

†νέος néos, neh'-os; including the comparative νεότερος neóteros neh-o'-ter-os; a primary word; "new", i.e. (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively, regenerate:—new, young.

I might say that I bought a new house; but that house might have been built over 100 years ago.

Yahshua was refreshing YHWH's commandment to love our associates as ourselves.

Click to expand...

"He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."
Mk 16:15

HARK! said:

Old wine made new? That's a new one on me.

Neos, not Kainos.

Click to expand...

You're making too much of the synonym usage, especially since kainos is used in the exact same way as neos in Mark 2:22 with both meaning something entirely new not something old being renewed.