NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[stuart lawrence]

Hades which is temporary and earthly is done away with in exchange for the lake of fire, which is like Hades but is eternal and outside the gates of the heavenly...

No one can literally die after that, so, death and Hades are done away with...

Their is still a chance for a person to be redeemed out of Hades, while it exists, but, afterward, no more chances... Christ went there for three days and, while it doesn't specifically say this part, probably was able to save some and take them with him, when he ascended afterward...

God Bless!

Absolutely, they will be outside of the city, the new Jerusalem. They will forever be outside of it, in torment and anguish.
Rev22:15

They rejected Christ, so they will endlessly suffer for it by being outside of his and his fathers presence

As you say, Hades is temporary, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth will pass away. The new heaven is the new Jerusalem. Those within in gates dwell with father and son forever.
Those outside the gates will be in torment forever, their will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
An eternal lake of fire for the soul, forever burning, never going out

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You lost me, porch?? Huh??

Have you ever noticed how you can see right through people? Their words say far more than even "they" understand. White suit evangelical television guy? Have you ever noticed so many words with so few meaning?

I heard this the other day.
If you love me Im in your heart.
If you hate me Im in your head.

His ways are not our ways........
May we come to the full knowledge of God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Monna]

In order to be tormented forever, wouldn't you need to be given eternal life? A dead person cannot be tormented.

There is a difference between "existence" and "life."

When Jesus told people "I have come so you can have life and have it more abundantly" he was not so stupid as to think the people who he was speaking to were not 'alive.' So he must have been talking about a different kind or quality of life. Same thing when he told Nicodemus he had to be "born again" to enter God's kingdom. Paul described our situation before we 'born again' as 'dead in sin.' Adam and Eve didn't drop biologically dead when they ate the forbidden fruit but they died spiritually - they cut off their relationship with the source of spiritual life, God.
So everyone will be resurrected, some to spiritual life some to spiritual death.

If you want to read the Bible literally there are lots of things that will be extremely confusing. You yourself do not converse 100% literally, but use all kinds of figures of speech. We even have the expression "Oh, get a life!" and say it to people who are obviously not dead. So the people who wrote what we call the Bible did not hold themselves to 100% literal language either. Don't read it as if they did.

Every time you speak "from the heart" or apply the idea that the heart is the seat of emotions you are using a cultural figure of speech. I have lived in countries and spoke at least one language where the stomach is the seat of emotions. They have different metaphors and verbal imagery. The original languages of the Bible also had their own culturally based figures of speech, metaphors and used allegories different from ours. Translating these exactly in accordance with the intended meaning is near impossible. Translating them literally often loses their intended meaning.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

There is a difference between "existence" and "life."

When Jesus told people "I have come so you can have life and have it more abundantly" he was not so stupid as to think the people who he was speaking to were not 'alive.' So he must have been talking about a different kind or quality of life. Same thing when he told Nicodemus he had to be "born again" to enter God's kingdom. Paul described our situation before we 'born again' as 'dead in sin.' Adam and Eve didn't drop biologically dead when they ate the forbidden fruit but they died spiritually - they cut off their relationship with the source of spiritual life, God.
So everyone will be resurrected, some to spiritual life some to spiritual death.

If you want to read the Bible literally there are lots of things that will be extremely confusing. You yourself do not converse 100% literally, but use all kinds of figures of speech. We even have the expression "Oh, get a life!" and say it to people who are obviously not dead. So the people who wrote what we call the Bible did not hold themselves to 100% literal language either. Don't read it as if they did.

Every time you speak "from the heart" or apply the idea that the heart is the seat of emotions you are using a cultural figure of speech. I have lived in countries and spoke at least one language where the stomach is the seat of emotions. They have different metaphors and verbal imagery. The original languages of the Bible also had their own culturally based figures of speech, metaphors and used allegories different from ours. Translating these exactly in accordance with the intended meaning is near impossible. Translating them literally often loses their intended meaning.

So this is the new doctrine? Death isn't actually death. It is simply a terrible quality of life.

 

[Breckmin]

the heresy of universalism has been on the rise and some pastors might not want to stir the pot unless they are there to counter their (annihilationalist or universalist) nonsense.

 

[Breckmin]

there's no "life" in hell... it's obviously existence which is distinct from living, loving, and enjoying life freely. Eternal existence in hell is clearly distinct from eternal life in the new heaven and new earth.

 

[Breckmin]

if everyone is somehow "saved" then no one is saved because the word saved loses its meaning. If there is no opposite condition to be saved FROM in eternity... then there is no meaningful salvation... just inevitable fate that everyone reaches.

salvation becomes justice rather than "grace" and there is no more grace because there is now omni-forgiveness which is somehow justice.

God has no real enemies... everyone's a sheep... and a dozen or more other things immediately become discombobulated.

How can you have salvation mean anything if there is no opposite condition (in eternity) to be saved FROM (to contrast saved vs. unsaved)?

Heresy is always shown to be nonsense when it is from satan.

 

[RaymondG]

You need to be honest. Why won't you attempt to answer my question. Isn't there an obvious apparent contradiction when one scripture described the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah as eternal and another scripture describes it as a past even which has done its work and has ceased. When we offer an explanation as to how we understand what seems to be a contradiction you don't. What is your explanation? Can someone be tormented forever if they do not have eternal life? If no then explain how the fire torments them forever in the true sense of the word? I've heard nobody offer an alternative explanation. If the second death is the penalty for the wicked then is the second death really life in torment?

I think we all need to be honest....and if we are honest, we would admit: we dont know. So why put anyone else down about what they believe when we are.....just believers(most of us).

There are things that ring true to me, and others that dont.......but until God Shows me, I dont know... i just believe. And even when God Shows me things, I cant expect for you to say you know after i relay what he Said....you would still just be believing what i said....but you would need to be able to Get your answer from God as well. And even when he shows you the north side of the same tree that i saw....only i saw the south.....We would still paint different pictures of the same Truth!

This is why i respect all opinions and i only ask questions. Some, after 10, 100, 1000 "answered questions," will realize that they just dont have a clue and then will go to God as a little child....and Know the Truth.

I dont trust my Carnal mind....it is enmity against God (so it the devil)....It tries to make me think i know everything...It teaches me good and evil, tells me i know more than you know. But it is a lie( so is the devil)!

One day i had to give up my Masters degree in biblical interpretations and ask God, if it wasnt too late, if he would allow me to just sit outside of His kindergarten classroom.... so that when the little children gets up to use the bathroom and open the door, i could possibly get an ear shot of what was being discussed inside. What I've heard in the few times the door did swing open for a few second is worth more than all the knowledge my carnal minds has gathered in my lifetime.....
Soon i hope to get a seat in the class.....but even then, whatever you had to say would still be respected.

 

[miknik5]

How does one obtain this Garment?

Through faith in JESUS CHRIST

HE is the ONE who washes and makes clean what apart from
HIM washing is both unclean and separated from GOD

 

[miknik5]

How does one obtain this Garment?

Just read Matthew 22

 

[Monna]

So this is the new doctrine? Death isn't actually death. It is simply a terrible quality of life.

I'd be happy to hear your understanding of Eph 2:1-5
Ephesians 2:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

It's hard to believe he's talking about a time before birth...

Explain how we can be both dead in sin, but walking around having "our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others" if we weren't some kind of alive.

 

[miknik5]

Could someone possibly expound what happened in the case of Lazarus and if CHRIST's WORD to Martha is true and truth?

 

[Kobidobidog]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

 

[Kobidobidog]

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

Hell is not a place. God is a consuming fie. God is light. God burns up the wicked at the second resurrection. Gays are not wicked. The works of the gays are not the works of the people around lots house needing to be blinded. gays are not rushing the door of anyone. Gays are not mischievous. Muslims are Mischievous. Muslims want laws that oppress the widow and the fatherless. Gays are honest. Muslims are not honest. Muslims and all dishonest people will be a flame in the lake of fire. Many that are burning will look like a lake of fire.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Hell is not a place. God is a consuming fie. God is light. God burns up the wicked at the second resurrection. Gays are not wicked. The works of the gays are not the works of the people around lots house needing to be blinded. gays are not rushing the door of anyone. Gays are not mischievous. Muslims are Mischievous. Muslims want laws that oppress the widow and the fatherless. Gays are honest. Muslims are not honest. Muslims and all dishonest people will be a flame in the lake of fire. Many that are burning will look like a lake of fire.

Welcome to the conversation Kobidobidog

 

[Kobidobidog]

Could someone possibly expound what happened in the case of Lazarus and if CHRIST's WORD to Martha is true and truth?

That story of Lazarus in Hell was a parable. Wicked die. The end of them will be ashes. They will see God's light as wrath - vengeance.

 

[Kobidobidog]

Welcome to the conversation Kobidobidog

Thank you my friend.

 

[rjs330]

The literal fires of Sodom and Gomorrah were not "eternal" or very long lasting, but the spiritual metaphorical fire where the citizens went were or are...

It was an example, both literally and metaphorically, but the two are different...

Now THAT was and excellent reply my friend. So often the "what about the eternal fire of Sodom and Gomorrah?" argument comes out when folks don't think hell is eternal. They completely miss the point of eternal punishment. God began the punishment when he judged the people and burned them up physically, but he will continue their punishment of judgement eternally. The fire of judgement never goes out.

 

[Monna]

I am a little humbled reading this thread. Am I over-reacting or being over-sensitive, when I wonder if there is a little sense of "we, the saved and going to heaven" and "they, the damned who will burn in the lake of fire for ever and ever" - with an undercurrent of "and they deserve every bit of it..." ?

We all deserve to be damned. We didn't deserve to experience God's grace. In fact that is what grace is - something good that is not deserved.

And God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, or the lake of fire. He says so quite clearly through Ezekial and elsewhere:
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live." (Ez: 33:11)

Rather than gloat over the fate of unrepentant sinners, we should be heartbroken by it, and much more active in working with God to reach them with the good news that there is a better, more abundant life, through Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Have I, have you, done anything today to further this effort? Knowing that I haven't done as much as I could have is what humbles me.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not everyone who goes to church believes they will attain heaven because Jesus died for them.
Many believe they will attain heaven because they have lived good enough lives( or made the grade as it were)

Much easier to believe this if you come from a more loving, secure home( though not always)
For you are then less likely to be afflicted by excessive drinking, smoking, affairs or bad language. Many believe, if these are avoided that pretty much entitles them to attain heaven