No more name change debates

[Tishri1]

No more debate is best.

I think people should be REQUIRED to read our SOF and Forum specific rules before they are allowed to post here for the first time.

There must be some software means of doing this, nu?

Noooo I wish there was but it would slow us down

 

[Tishri1]

Please have the guts to follow Viz's suggested wording "name change will not be debated in this forum." in Item #4 of SoP.

'No debate criticizing the name of this forum, Messianic Judaism, nor debate suggesting name change of this forum, Messianic Judaism, will be allowed. Offenders will be reported.'

There's an old saying in contract law, "Spell it out". Don't do so and you deserve all the Tsuris you get.

Lol

 

[Avodat]

Hi Tishri,

I'm really confused by your post - you have, I think, missed the whole point of what is being said.

My OP is only about the continual arguments about the fact that people want change the name so that, in future, there will NOT be anything on CF called Messianic Judaism, unless it is run to their particular liking.

WHY they feel that is really irrelevant - it is their problem, not ours. All that is being asked is really quite simple: we are asking that debates to get rid of the forum name by changing it to something else (an example has been quoted quite extensively: Messianic Believers) be banned. That is all - it really is that straightforward. If those debates are declared off-topic and subject to Mod's action all the other debates around that subject matter relating to who is TO and who isn't would also stop = happy families!

 

[Tishri1]

So, will this actually be done?

I will do it

 

[astein]

I apologize again. I posted in a MJ only thread. Please forgive me.

 

[anisavta]

So do you all want to report me and hang me out to dry because I suggested we change the name of the main forum and put MJ in the sub forum?

I just made that thread and suggested it when it became a topic, there's too much infighting and very little love for each other let alone those seeking.

I'll just bow out, as it seems that the only thing that getting zealously discussed here is rules and reporting.

Knock it off Lulav. No one wants to report you. We just disagree that changing the name will make us all kissy kissy.
What would happen if all the Baptists wanted to change their name. Do you know how many sub forums there's have to be to appease them all?
We're all happy with what we are - Messianic Judaism, and all the quirks that go along with it.
I can guarantee that if we changed our name, we'd then get a whole new group wanting to change it yet again, because it wouldn't make them happy.
The wheel has been invented. Lets all just accept each other's mode of transportation and figure we'll all get to the same destination in the end...I hope.

 

[Avodat]

As far as the OP is concerned, it was not about an individual - it was about a principle.

As I do not see Lulav's posts, for very good reasons already made public at her request, I was not aware that she was advocating a name change. I do not think any change will be retrospective in any case so those who have followed that route will start with a clean slate, so to speak.

 

[Tishri1]

Correct but

As with all seasons of extreme arguments and debates

It is always good to look at how to move forward when those debates finally end , so those coming here will not believe all the false accusations flying around about Folks who follow Torah observance in here


If we just make rules with out at the same time making this place pleasant for those who stop by for a visit then the forum will still be the same just other people will be forced to be defensive is all

Why not change the atmosphere and give this place a fresh start?


After a year of debate on what is main stream MJ's stance on Torah for Gentiles and having to be defensive constantly, wouldn't you love to see excitement in celebrating Torah and sharing that excitement with others

I think that to just make sure it's not you all putting others on the defensive after all you have been thru as that would be a shame

Hi Tishri,

I'm really confused by your post - you have, I think, missed the whole point of what is being said.

My OP is only about the continual arguments about the fact that people want change the name so that, in future, there will NOT be anything on CF called Messianic Judaism, unless it is run to their particular liking.

WHY they feel that is really irrelevant - it is their problem, not ours. All that is being asked is really quite simple: we are asking that debates to get rid of the forum name by changing it to something else (an example has been quoted quite extensively: Messianic Believers) be banned. That is all - it really is that straightforward. If those debates are declared off-topic and subject to Mod's action all the other debates around that subject matter relating to who is TO and who isn't would also stop = happy families!

 

[Tishri1]

So do you all want to report me and hang me out to dry because I suggested we change the name of the main forum and put MJ in the sub forum?

I just made that thread and suggested it when it became a topic, there's too much infighting and very little love for each other let alone those seeking.

I'll just bow out, as it seems that the only thing that getting zealously discussed here is rules and reporting.

She gets it !!! Thank you Lulav you understand what I mean
We can't just make things hunky dory for us even though we may have been under attack

We need to make all here feel the new found freedom we feel by using the situation to change things about ourselves too

What can we offer folks here to help make them feel appreciated for posting in MJ?

 

[Tishri1]

I can vouch for both these posts neither of these folks want anyone to feel called out
Motives for this thread were pure and sincere as are all the posts in support
That is for sure soooo no one should feel called out here


Ok so we have the new note under the sop ( see point number 4)

Ok so now what?????

Can we take some time to fix this place by doing our own soul searching too for a little bit?

Your all wonderful and lovely to hang with

Lets spend some time on this forum's PR ( public relations)

Knock it off Lulav. No one wants to report you. We just disagree that changing the name will make us all kissy kissy.
What would happen if all the Baptists wanted to change their name. Do you know how many sub forums there's have to be to appease them all?
We're all happy with what we are - Messianic Judaism, and all the quirks that go along with it.
I can guarantee that if we changed our name, we'd then get a whole new group wanting to change it yet again, because it wouldn't make them happy.
The wheel has been invented. Lets all just accept each other's mode of transportation and figure we'll all get to the same destination in the end...I hope.

As far as the OP is concerned, it was not about an individual - it was about a principle.

As I do not see Lulav's posts, for very good reasons already made public at her request, I was not aware that she was advocating a name change. I do not think any change will be retrospective in any case so those who have followed that route will start with a clean slate, so to speak.

 

[motherprayer]

Id just like to offer an experience from a non-MJ who posts here once in awhile...

I have never felt unwelcome, and in fact, I very much enjoy the experience I have when I do post here. There have been certain questions I've had that tie in with MJ theology, and I've always gotten great answers when I ask them.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what the issue is? I love my MJ brethren

 

[aniello]

I can vouch for both these posts

Ok so we have the new note under the sop ( see point number 4)

Ok so now what?????

And so, I checked and indeed the words sufficient have been appended. Good.

"
4. Please keep in mind that we consider Messianic Judaism to be a completely valid form of Judaism that doesn't need the permission or affirmation from any other sect of Judaism to exist. Therefore, we don't believe it is necessary to convert to Orthodox Judaism or any other branch of Judaism to belong. Although there are different expressions of Messianic Judaism, as there are in other Judaisms, we believe Messianic Judaism; a Torah observant Judaism who believes Yeshua is the Messiah and believes the Apostolic writings hold authority, to be the true expression of Judaism that the scriptures and the God of Yisrael intended.
-No debating this belief or campaigns to change this forum name "

So now we proceed and see how it goes. Perhaps we will be able to concern ourselves with things Torah and Yeshua without having to fight for our identity. Would seem more peaceful and extended family oriented.

Seems reasonable.

 

[Tishri1]

Good thank you for your input that helps a lot

Can I ask

Have you seen any of the infighting and if so have the folks who are Torah observant ever made you feel second class ? That has been one false accusation they were attacked with by another group

Did you ever feel that from them?

Id just like to offer an experience from a non-MJ who posts here once in awhile...

I have never felt unwelcome, and in fact, I very much enjoy the experience I have when I do post here. There have been certain questions I've had that tie in with MJ theology, and I've always gotten great answers when I ask them.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what the issue is? I love my MJ brethren

 

[Tishri1]

My pleasure!

And so, I checked and indeed the words sufficient have been appended. Good.

"
4. Please keep in mind that we consider Messianic Judaism to be a completely valid form of Judaism that doesn't need the permission or affirmation from any other sect of Judaism to exist. Therefore, we don't believe it is necessary to convert to Orthodox Judaism or any other branch of Judaism to belong. Although there are different expressions of Messianixrc Judaism, as there are in other Judaisms, we believe Messianic Judaism; a Torah observant Judaism who believes Yeshua is the Messiah and believes the Apostolic writings hold authority, to be the true expression of Judaism that the scriptures and the God of Yisrael intended.
-No debating this belief or campaigns to change this forum name "

So now we proceed and see how it goes. Perhaps we will be able to concern ourselves with things Torah and Yeshua without having to fight for our identity. Would seem more peaceful and extended family oriented.

Seems reasonable.

 

[motherprayer]

Good thank you for your input that helps a lot

Can I ask

Have you seen any if the infighting and if so have the folks who are Torah observant ever made you feel second class ? That has been one false accusation they were attacked with by another group

Did you ever feel that from them?

I have seen the in-fighting, but I try to stay out of it, because I honestly don't know enough about MJ to even say anything. But personally? No, they've never made me feel unwelcome or second class. I've come here with questions several times, because there are certain questions I feel Messaianics have a better understanding of than other groups, because of their focus on the Old Testament. When I come here with questions, I'm always welcomed graciously, and my questions are answered without issue.

 

[mishkan]

I've come here with questions several times, because there are certain questions I feel Messaianics have a better understanding of than other groups, because of their focus on the Old Testament.

Whaddya mean "certain questions"??? LOL!

 

[Tishri1]

Thank you

One more question if you will excuse me for for asking but it helps to know if possible

Do you see any Christian bashing going on that you know of? Yet another accusation floating around here

I have seen the in-fighting, but I try to stay out of it, because I honestly don't know enough about MJ to even say anything. But personally? No, they've never made me feel unwelcome or second class. I've come here with questions several times, because there are certain questions I feel Messaianics have a better understanding of than other groups, because of their focus on the Old Testament. When I come here with questions, I'm always welcomed graciously, and my questions are answered without issue.

 

[motherprayer]

Whaddya mean "certain questions"??? LOL!

Lol I can't give a specific, but for example, I did start a thread here about something my pastor brought up, that Jesus preached first to the Jews, and the Gospel message was extended to the Gentiles only after He was rejected by the Jews. I hadn't heard that before, but when I brought it to GT, it wasn't received very well. I brought it here and got an answer

Many denominations place little focus on the OT, and I like to study it. I actually have a question for y'all brewing right now, about the comparison between Elisha and Jesus Christ. Prepare yeselves! LOL!

 

[motherprayer]

Thank you

One more question if you will excuse me for for asking but it helps to know if possible

Do you see any Christian bashing going on that you know of? Yet another accusation floating around here

Nothing worse than I see in GT, to be honest. I mean, every "sect" of Christianity has its beliefs that are unique to IT, but what I've seen that MAY be construed as bashing really seemed more a result of being provoked than anything else.

Its like this, if I walked into a Catholic Church and said "Your teachings go against the teachings of Christ," I wouldn't be received very well, and my statement would more than likely cause those Catholics who hear to come out of character. Well, coming into a congregational forum is similar to walking into a church. So if I came here and said "MJ's teach following the Torah, but they don't follow it," then of course it could cause a reaction that ISN'T indicative of the tolerance they are apt to show a person who came in and said simply "Can you help me understand what MJ's teach about the Torah? I really don't understand and honestly desire to know."

There a difference in the methods of approach, one engenders a desire to give an answer, the other engenders a desire to defend. Does that make sense?

 

[WOFFED]

Anyone that can keep up with this thread and still understand what's going on is clearly confused.

It's threads like this that make me wonder if displaying an MJ faith badge is in the best interest of Yeshua's best interests.

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