No Literal Hell?

[Timothew]

There are a number of verses that speak of hell and judgment. We dare not miss them.

In Christ, Oz

There are many more verses that speak of judgment as death or destruction. Do we dare miss all of them?

 

[rstrats]

OzSpen,

re: "There are a number of verses that speak of hell and judgment."

But there are no scriptures given in your link that say that folks will be given eternal life so that they can be tortured for ever and ever.

 

[OzSpen]

There are many more verses that speak of judgment as death or destruction. Do we dare miss all of them?

Tim,

Please provide your list so that we can examine some of them on this Forum.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[OzSpen]

OzSpen,

re: "There are a number of verses that speak of hell and judgment."

But there are no scriptures given in your link that say that folks will be given eternal life so that they can be tortured for ever and ever.

rstrats,

Of course I would not give verses that say folks will be given eternal life and will be tortured for ever and ever. There are no such verses in the Bible because that is not what eternal life means.

We are talking about the eternal destination and treatment by the eternal God of those who are unbelievers.

Sincerely, Oz

 

[Timothew]

Tim,

Please provide your list so that we can examine some of them on this Forum.

Sincerely, Oz

Matt 7:13

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

​

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Matthew 13:30

First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up,

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The greek word that is used is katakausai, which comes from katakaio, and it means to consume by burning, burn down.


Matthew 13:40,

So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
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Luke 13:3​

I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
​

Here, the greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which comes from the word apollumi, and means "to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish. Apoleisthe is the future tense form of apollumi which means will be utterly destroyed or will be killed.

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Matthew 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all".
and it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them".​

John 3:16​

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

​

John 8:21​

Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
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Romans 6:23​

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
​

1 Corinthians 3:17​

If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
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Galations 6:8​

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
​

phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.

The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.​

2 Thessalonians 1:9​

These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
​

The greek word is olethron: destruction.

From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.​

Hebrews 10:26-27,​

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
​

Hebrews 10:39​

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

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James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a

There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy;
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2 Peter 2:1​

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swiftdestruction upon themselves.

2 Peter 3:7-9

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

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1 John 5:12​

He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
​

How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?

Jude 5​

Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

​

Jude 10​

But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
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Revelation 2:11b​

He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
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Revelation 17:8​

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.

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Revelation 18:8​

For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
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The greek word katakauthesetai comes from katakaio and means utterly burnt up, destroyed. (The greek is future passive indicative tense, therefore it is the word katakauthesetai).

Revelation 20:14-15​

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death.

Revelation 21:8​

“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


​

Tim
​

 

[DeaconDean]

One word of note here.

This is the Baptist room, and as such, from the establishing of Baptists in America, we have always taught eternal torments in the lake of fire.

philadelphia confession-chapter 34

1806 Mississippi Baptist Association Articles of Faith | The Reformed Reader

Principles of Faith of the Sandy Creek Association | The Reformed Reader

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

treatise of faith and practices of free will baptists

abstract of principles contents

Compend of Christian Doctrines Held by Baptists, 1866 | The Reformed Reader

Articles Put Forth by the Baptist Bible Union of America | The Reformed Reader

1925 Baptist Faith and Message

Faith and Message | The Reformed Reader

So to teach any form of annihilationism, goes against what we as Baptist confess to believe and is not acceptable here.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[phoenixdem]

phoenixdem,

re: "How do you reconcile verses of Scripture that talk about everlasting punishment?"
　
Actually - as has been previously mentioned - there is only one verse that uses the phrase "everlasting punishment". Why do you take "punishment" to mean torture when it can be taken to mean something else? The wages of sin is death.

Here are several verses of scripture that talk about eternal punishment.

Mark

9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched:​

9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched:​

9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.​

9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to
enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes
to be cast into hell fire:​

9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Let me know if you want more. BTW, in the Book of Revelation, you can read about Hell being cast into the Lake of Fire, which is also eternal. There is another point. Death need not mean complete annihilation (See Rev 20:14).

Rev

20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be​

tormented day and night for ever and ever.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second
death.​

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast​

into the lake of fire.

Let me introduce you to the wonderful world of synonyms.

Synonyms are different words with almost identical or similar meanings. Words that are synonyms are said to be synonymous, and the state of being a synonym is called synonymy. The word comes from Ancient Greek syn (σύν) ("with") and onoma (ὄνομα) ("name"). The words car and automobile are synonyms. Similarly, if we talk about a long time or an extended time, long and extended become synonyms. In the figurative sense, two words are often said to be synonymous if they have the same connotation:

Synonym - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Timothew]

One word of note here.

This is the Baptist room, and as such, from the establishing of Baptists in America, we have always taught eternal torments in the lake of fire.

philadelphia confession-chapter 34

1806 Mississippi Baptist Association Articles of Faith | The Reformed Reader

Principles of Faith of the Sandy Creek Association | The Reformed Reader

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

treatise of faith and practices of free will baptists

abstract of principles contents

Compend of Christian Doctrines Held by Baptists, 1866 | The Reformed Reader

Articles Put Forth by the Baptist Bible Union of America | The Reformed Reader

1925 Baptist Faith and Message

Faith and Message | The Reformed Reader

So to teach any form of annihilationism, goes against what we as Baptist confess to believe and is not acceptable here.

God Bless

Till all are one.

My posting was in response to a request. Baptist belief is and always has been bible based and not creed-driven. I posted scriptures for you to examine and do with what you wish. I didn't tell you how to read them. If the scriptures teach annihilationism, I can hardly be faulted for that.

Quote: That we do not regard them as complete statements of our faith, having any quality of finality or infallibility. As in the past so in the future, Baptists should hold themselves free to revise their statements of faith as may seem to them wise and expedient at any time. (1925 BAPTIST FAITH AND MESSAGE)

 

[Timothew]

Here is the church where I was baptized by immersion as a believer. (I was 20 years old, that was 26 years ago, It was January of 1985. I am still a believer and I still attend a baptist church.)

Calvary Baptist Church - Idaho Falls Connect at Calvary

Baptists cherish and defend religious liberty, and deny the right of any secular or religious authority to impose a confession of faith upon a church or body of churches. We honor the principles of soul competency and the priesthood of believers, affirming together both our liberty in Christ and our accountability to each other under the Word of God.

The Baptist Faith and Message (SBC)

 

[Timothew]

There are a number of verses that speak of hell and judgment. We dare not miss them.

In Christ, Oz

OzSpen, I went to the linked website. Is it yours?
Can we talk about it?

Tim

 

[Timothew]

My posting was in response to a request. Baptist belief is and always has been bible based and not creed-driven. I posted scriptures for you to examine and do with what you wish. I didn't tell you how to read them. If the scriptures teach annihilationism, I can hardly be faulted for that.

Quote: That we do not regard them as complete statements of our faith, having any quality of finality or infallibility. As in the past so in the future, Baptists should hold themselves free to revise their statements of faith as may seem to them wise and expedient at any time. (1925 BAPTIST FAITH AND MESSAGE)

Here is the SOF for posting in the Baptist Forum:

The Baptist Community-a forum for all Baptists to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about what Baptists believe:

1. The Believers Baptism (credobaptism) – We believe that baptism should be by immersion and that it is an outward symbol of of an inward change that has already occurred.
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2. The Priesthood of the believer - Our High Priest is Jesus Christ, our sole Mediator between man and God. Each believer can go to the throne of God via prayer for grace and mercy.
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3. The 66 Books comprising the Scriptures are given by the verbal inspiration of God, and as such are the only and all sufficient, authoritative rule of faith. Given their divine origins, the Scriptures are without error as originally given.
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4. The Lord’s Supper is an ordinance (one of two ordinances), done in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us at the cross.
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5. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. While both free will and deterministic understandings of the gospel are espoused by various Baptists, human works play no part in a person's redemption.
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To learn more about what Baptists believe please see Baptist Distinctives


House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

A large number of Baptists believe in eternal torment, however some do not. Therefore belief in eternal torment is not a requirement for posting here. I am a Baptist, I believe numbers 1-5 above. According to the statement this is all forum which all baptists may participate in, Not just the Specific Baptists that believe a certain way about Hell.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread has generated a number of reports and is being closed for staff review


Edit: This thread is staying closed. It generated alot of reports. And there is this:

Discussions about Nicene and Trinitarian beliefs may take place in the Christian-Only forums, all discussions regarding non-Nicene and non-Trinitarian topics will take place in Unorthodox Theology. Those topics include (but are not limited to)
● Universalism
● Open Theism
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● Trinitarianism
● Annihilationism
● Masonry
● discussions related to unorthodox Christian religions
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