• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

No global warming due to Oceanic tendencies

drjean

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2011
15,284
4,511
✟335,720.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Climate Change: The Oceanic Thermostat

By: Dr. Kevin Birdwell

Bio: Kevin R. Birdwell received his PhD from the University of Tennessee in 2011 and currently serves as a meteorologist and atmospheric researcher in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.


shr_drw_left.png




shr_drw_divider.png


shr_drw_right.png



Dear Dr Jean,
The current debate over climate change has raised many questions about what is and isn’t currently understood about the global climate system. While most of the debate focuses on atmospheric conditions, research shows that attention should be paid to the impact Earth’s oceans have on climate change.
**** Earth’s climate represents a complex balance of incoming solar energy, reflective surface properties (albedo), the hydrological cycle, and storage of heat (atmosphere and oceans). The amount of heat in the climate system is affected by a large number of factors—including greenhouse gases, aerosols (carbon, mineral dust, indirect aerosol effects), land use, cloud cover, and other influences.1 Of the retained heat, the vast majority ends up in the planet’s oceans; the atmosphere holds an insignificant proportion by comparison (three orders of magnitude less in terms of total Joules).
Consequently, if one wants to understand atmospheric climate, one must first understand oceanic systems. Unfortunately, researchers do not have a complete understanding of the ocean’s storage and transportation of heat. A paper published in the Journal of Climate (2011) sheds some light on the role oceans might play in regulating atmospheric temperatures.2 Authors Barreiro, Cherchi, and Masina suggest that the current rate of ocean heat transport is near its optimum with regard to its effect on the global distribution of heat.
Solar energy is largely absorbed by the tropical oceans where solar radiation and cold water upwells to the surface. Globally distributed ocean currents move most of the excess heat from the tropics toward the poles, where it is removed by atmospheric processes (cold and dry winds, especially in winter). Heat transport via ocean currents is significant in the tropics, but becomes dominated by the atmospheric circulation beyond about 45 degrees north and south latitude.3
Researchers largely attribute modifications of oceanic circulations and heat transport to changes in incoming solar radiation, greenhouse gases, and continental drift. Although changes associated with continental configuration occur on geologic time-scales, changes in incoming solar radiation can occur on very short time-scales, especially with regard to those effects that change surface albedo (cloud cover, land cover, aerosols, etc.).
Barreiro, Cherchi, and Masina modeled the effects of ocean heat transport at rates ranging from 0 to 200 percent of current levels using current continental configurations. As expected, they found that cooling tended to occur in high latitudes for decreased rates of ocean heat transport. This effect resulted partially from increased sea ice and low clouds in those areas. However, when modeled ocean heat transport was increased beyond 15 to 25 percent above present-day values, the results became highly dependent on radiative feedbacks between tropical low cloud formation and sea surface temperatures. In these cases, increased tropical low clouds enhanced surface albedo and resulted in significant cooling of the tropical oceans. Thus, when the ocean heat transport was increased too much above present-day levels, the cooling of the tropics acted as a brake on global heat transport. This resulted in a decrease in the global mean temperature related to ocean heat transport.
The authors also found that if modeled ocean heat transport was increased more than 25 percent beyond present-day values, then the climate transitioned abruptly (often within a decade or less) to the braking or cooling mode. A warming climate continued as ocean heat transport was increased to 115 percent of present-day values but began to cool when transport exceeded the 120 percent threshold. Essentially, this effect occurred because the deep tropical atmosphere tended to dry out when ocean heat transport increased too much. As a result, the tropical atmosphere became more stable (that is, less likely to mix vertically) and atmospheric temperature inversions that tended to produce extensive low clouds occurred.
These low clouds greatly reduce the amount of solar radiation reaching the surface in the tropical regions. Barreiro, Cherchi, and Masina found that this effect’s significance began to increase when ocean heat transport exceeded 110 percent of present-day values. Atmospheric drying also occurred when ocean heat transport declined below the present-day values. However, for decreased ocean heat transport, high-latitude regions became drier.
In both cases, changes to ocean heat transport reduce the atmospheric water vapor feedback (though in different ways). Reduced atmospheric water vapor helps slow the warming effects from other greenhouse gases. The planet’s tropical zones were also found to be largest (widest) when warming from ocean heat transport was at a maximum.
The net cooling effect resulting from ocean heat transport beyond 115 percent of present-day values was surprising. Past research suggested a more significant warming effect due to ocean heat transport. For example, in 1991, Rind and Chandler proposed that 46 percent more ocean heat transport may have warmed the Jurassic-era climate by 6°C over the present day.4 However, much higher levels of greenhouse gases (particularly CO2) and a significantly different configuration of the continents also contributed to that period’s warming effects by changing ocean circulation patterns.
Conversely, research published in 1993 by Barron et al. broadly confirms Barreiro, Cherchi, and Masina’s findings, suggesting that ocean heat transport is presently close to its maximum warming effect given the present continental configuration.5 Barron’s study found that increasing ocean heat transport from zero to present-day rates warmed the global climate by about 2°C, but that further increasing heat transport to 200 percent of present-day values resulted in only 0.6°C of additional warming.
Current understanding of ocean heat transport is still lacking in some respects, especially with regard to the nature of oceanic circulation pattern changes. However, Barreiro, Cherchi, and Masina’s research shows how Earth’s oceans may regulate the global climate through changes in ocean heat transport rates, atmospheric humidity, cloud cover, and sea ice.
Although this oceanic “thermostat” does not fully compensate for the effects of both natural and anthropogenic causes, the existence of such an ocean-climate regulator suggests that our world may possess a built-in tendency to maintain climate equilibriums. The distribution of the oceans and the present continental configuration suggest design climate stability. Without this thermostat, climate changes that occur on human time scales would be more abrupt and more disruptive to society than those that have been observed.
Endnotes:
1. Roger A. Pielke Sr., “Heat Storage within the Earth System,” Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society 84 (March 2003): 331–35.
2. Marcelo Barreiro, Annalisa Cherchi, and Simona Masina, “Climate Sensitivity to Changes in Ocean Heat Transport,” Journal of Climate 24, no. 19 (October 2011): 5015–30.
3. Kevin E. Trenberth and Julie M. Caron, “Estimates of Meridional Atmosphere and Ocean Heat Transports,” Journal of Climate 14, no. 16 (August 2001): 3433–43.
4. D. Rind and M. Chandler, “Increased Ocean Heat Transports and Warmer Climate,” Journal of Geophysical Research 96, no.D4 (1991): 7437–61.
5. Eric J. Barron et al., “Past Climate and the Role of Ocean Heat Transport: Model Simulations for the Cretaceous,” Paleoceanography 8, no. 6 (1993): 785–98.
 

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not sure what the OP is getting at. There is no doubt that thermal inertia in the oceans is going to exacerbate global warming in the future as most of the warming is occurring in the oceans. I hope he is not suggesting that ENSO is responsible for long term warming trends. I also hope the OP understands that most of the anthropogenic CO2 is being absorbed by the oceans and that is why they are heating more than the atmosphere. And let's not forget ocean acidification due to the absorption of increased CO2.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
A single cooling mechanism doesn't eliminate the possibility of global warming. A single model in a single published article also doesn't amount to much.

I'm not sure but I think the OP is talking more about the attributes to past climates with relation to ocean currents. He mentioned something about changing ocean currents, but none are changing now, nor have they since the Pleistocene. Maybe he is trying to make a case for ENSO, PDO and AO oscillations as climate drivers. They are not because they are short term oscillations.

Enough speculation for now. Maybe we will get more clarification if and when he posts again.
 
Upvote 0
J

Jazer

Guest
**** Earth’s climate represents a complex balance of incoming solar energy, reflective surface properties (albedo), the hydrological cycle, and storage of heat (atmosphere and oceans).
It is complex to predict the weather but what is going on is not complex. There is a 50 degree difference between the temperature at the equator and at the polls. The earth balances that though air and water currents. The cold goes south and the warm air and water goes north. Right now we are having a early spring and that means a shift in the currents. That is why we have a lot of thunder storms & tornadoes this time of year.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
It is complex to predict the weather but what is going on is not complex. There is a 50 degree difference between the temperature at the equator and at the polls. The earth balances that though air and water currents. The cold goes south and the warm air and water goes north. Right now we are having a early spring and that means a shift in the currents. That is why we have a lot of thunder storms & tornadoes this time of year.

The warm winter and early spring is due to the Arctic Oscillation (AO) which is currently in a positive phase and has been much of the winter, not ocean currents.
 
Upvote 0
J

Jazer

Guest
The warm winter and early spring is due to the Arctic Oscillation (AO) which is currently in a positive phase and has been much of the winter, not ocean currents.
I said ocean and air currents. How do you think the cold air gets down here? They call it the jet stream.

NASA climatologist Dr. James E. Hansen explains the mechanism by which the AO affects weather at points so distant from the Arctic: Positive and negative phases of the Arctic Oscillation "The degree to which Arctic air penetrates into middle latitudes is related to the AO index, which is defined by surface atmospheric pressure patterns. When the AO index is positive, surface pressure is low in the polar region. This helps the middle latitude jet stream to blow strongly and consistently from west to east, thus keeping cold Arctic air locked in the polar region. When the AO index is negative, there tends to be high pressure in the polar region, weaker zonal winds, and greater movement of frigid polar air into middle latitudes."
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟106,373.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
I said ocean and air currents. How do you think the cold air gets down here? They call it the jet stream.

NASA climatologist Dr. James E. Hansen explains the mechanism by which the AO affects weather at points so distant from the Arctic: Positive and negative phases of the Arctic Oscillation "The degree to which Arctic air penetrates into middle latitudes is related to the AO index, which is defined by surface atmospheric pressure patterns. When the AO index is positive, surface pressure is low in the polar region. This helps the middle latitude jet stream to blow strongly and consistently from west to east, thus keeping cold Arctic air locked in the polar region. When the AO index is negative, there tends to be high pressure in the polar region, weaker zonal winds, and greater movement of frigid polar air into middle latitudes."

By what I said the AO, not both. BTW, I'm glad to see you use the reference you did. Dr. Hansen and his colleagues are the among the best in climatology research.
 
Upvote 0

idscience

Regular Member
Mar 2, 2012
448
2
Visit site
✟23,102.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
This is interesting

  • New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism: “NASA satellite data from the years 2000 through 2011 show the Earth’s atmosphere is allowing far more heat to be released into space than alarmist computer models have predicted, reports a new study in the peer-reviewed science journal remote sensing. The study indicates far less future global warming will occur than United Nations computer models have predicted, and supports prior studies indicating increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide trap far less heat than alarmists have claimed…
  • “Scientists on all sides of the global warming debate are in general agreement about how much heat is being directly trapped by human emissions of carbon dioxide (the answer is “not much”). However, the single most important issue in the global warming debate is whether carbon dioxide emissions will indirectly trap far more heat by causing large increases in atmospheric humidity and cirrus clouds. Alarmist computer models assume human carbon dioxide emissions indirectly cause substantial increases in atmospheric humidity and cirrus clouds (each of which are very effective at trapping heat), but real-world data have long shown that carbon dioxide emissions are not causing as much atmospheric humidity and cirrus clouds as the alarmist computer models have predicted.”
  • “In short, the central premise of alarmist global warming theory is that carbon dioxide emissions should be directly and indirectly trapping a certain amount of heat in the earth’s atmosphere and preventing it from escaping into space. Real-world measurements, however, show far less heat is being trapped in the earth’s atmosphere than the alarmist computer models predict, and far more heat is escaping into space than the alarmist computer models predict.”
just google this New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism
 
Upvote 0