No Eternal Security?

[Gregory Thompson]

I got from earlier posts that he bases his salvation on some form of doctrinal purity .

I'm reading but my discernment keeps saying "ego ego ego" so it's hard to read through .

 

[Alive_Again]

<I'm reading but my discernment keeps saying "ego ego ego" so it's hard to read through.

You'd do yourself a big favor and just humbly consider what scripture says. That is what matters.

It's nothing to do with ego. Haven't the scriptures that I've been giving you been plain to all that understands? There's no ego in them, and we'll be accountable for them. That's my only motive. I don't want to let the enemy get away with lying to the brethren. Just look at the scriptures.

They preach: death/life (not that your always dead), but you must die to live.

Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the Law of the Lord Psalms 119

The undefiled walk in the Law (of liberty) of the Lord.

...He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life Rev 3

You must be undefiled and unspotted. That's what abiding in Christ does. That's what happens when we walk in the light (as He is in the light). You partake of the cleansing of the blood.

Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of My book Ex 32

God never changes.

&#8230; be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless 2 Peter 3

&#8230;Behold, I come as a thief Rev 16
&#8230;Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments Rev 16

You know to keep your garments. If you're always washed (the Word never says this), the scripture is unnecessary. Since we sin, we need to be mindful to be cleansed and repent.

Do you see any ego in me warning you against doctrines of demons that say it is a free ride if you "believe"? Is it not love for me to contend with you about this? Don't listen to the enemy and his accusations.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I know what the scripture says .

but as Paul said to Titus that to the pure .. all things are pure .

but to those who are unbelieving . everything even their conscience is undefiled .

you can continue to mulitply your words .

but the proverb "zeal without knowledge is not good"

you would do well to take heed and follow it .

 

[Alive_Again]

<I know what the scripture says .
but as Paul said to Titus that to the pure .. all things are pure .
but to those who are unbelieving . everything even their conscience is undefiled .

I have faith to tell you these things. I'm not trying to corner you into losing your faith. I do want you to be aware that we cannot slumber our way to the end. It's a fight of faith and it's very serious. Reverential fear.

<you can continue to mulitply your words .
but the proverb "zeal without knowledge is not good"
you would do well to take heed and follow it .

Regarding whether or not you or anyone else can cruise control their way through salvation, knowledge from the Word is given, and it's to be taken seriously.

…Behold, I come as a thief Rev 16
…Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments Rev 16

We'd ALL do well to take heed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

<I know what the scripture says .
but as Paul said to Titus that to the pure .. all things are pure .
but to those who are unbelieving . everything even their conscience is undefiled .

I have faith to tell you these things. I'm not trying to corner you into losing your faith. I do want you to be aware that we cannot slumber our way to the end. It's a fight of faith and it's very serious. Reverential fear.

<you can continue to mulitply your words .
but the proverb "zeal without knowledge is not good"
you would do well to take heed and follow it .

Regarding whether or not you or anyone else can cruise control their way through salvation, knowledge from the Word is given, and it's to be taken seriously.

…Behold, I come as a thief Rev 16
…Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments Rev 16

We'd ALL do well to take heed.

You seem like you're driven by fear of failure . the 1st John Letter speaks to that motivation .

 

[stormdancer0]

Too many people say a prayer, meaning it, and then are taught that you're in. You can go about, living your life however you want, and you are a shoe-in for Heaven. I think Alive Again may be making the point that, had you died right after that prayer, you'd go to Heaven. If your subsequently lived life shows no change, no desire to serve the One who saved you, then you will NOT go to Heaven. The works don't earn salvation, but they can and do prove it. If you have no works after years of "salvation," did you ever really have it?

Personally, I'm sketchy on that one. I really don't know with any certainty where the line is.

 

[Jeshu]

Psalm 14:2-6

The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.

All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the LORD.

But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.

You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the LORD is their refuge.


What I find so amazing how many believers in Christ will not humble themselves and admit defeat - for I tried fighting my flesh most of my life - very much like Alive Again to be at times even - yet found death and destruction was ruling me and my conscious hot or cold but never clear.

Yet once I let go of the erroneous spirit demanding I do, rule, must, don't -Col 2 those human instituted religious duties - my conscious went down in flames on the harlot riding his back after which Christ wiped it out altogether - bringing me a faithful heart instead.

For what law is there in love?
What authority could be higher?
Than Jesus Christ sitting at Truth's Right Hand?
True Love is a law unto Himself - He has always told us that!
So can you and I be free to be in both Light and Darkness and remain purely loving?

For once I drank like a fish and was driven by must and controlling Babylon to subdue it.

Yet once my unfaithful love was killed by Christ's unconditional love over me - I have a drink whenever I want to without any problems getting drunk or getting hooked on the drink. Rather I praise Jesus for each drink I get and remain free - praising God with drinking rather than sinning.

God wants ALL flesh to SERVE Him - we best obey Him about this and set the prisoners free!

Can we achieve holiness ourself?

Total Nonsense - can polluted waters purify themselves - or do we need an outside purifying force to deal with this?

The Truth is obvious!!!

This IS HOLY SEED - so it is Heavenly Born of Spirit and not from flesh though dwelling in it. Received for Free from Jesus Christ.

So The Bible urges us to love sin to death in us and begin to produce good things instead.

For God is not pleased if you been stealing and then you kill or imprison yourself as a thief but He wants you to stop stealing and work with your hands and earn enough to share with the poor.

How long will the spirit of Satan in us, and making us a thief, last when we guilty of being a thief cling to Christ and let The Fire of His Forgiving Love cleanse us of our guilty conscious setting us free to be good instead of bad? I promise you with Chrit's Spirit in place we will never STEAL again!

However if we keep stealing and heeding our guilty conscious to do this and that - and imprison ourselves or hide away so no-one will know you struggle with such sin - then Satan will be your god no matter how faithfrully religious you are - unfaithful love is at the bottom of it and must still be cut down by Christ's love - its best to get into His light and let ourselves be burned clean - instead of hiding in our caves petrified we are going to loose our Salvation because we found loveless lies controlling us - fro then we sure will!

So Satan will sweep up religious duty - Saul really suffered badly from that - even bringing faithful believers to death - until Christ exposed Saul's unfaithful love and his law focussed genocide of God's own and repented - never judging anyone God's again, but exposing The Wicked who are like that.

Paul knew very well that his battle was not with himself - and he let himself be totally free to be a sinner - Romans 7 testifies of this - so that The Wicked controlling him with the strings of their lies would be exposed. For He trusted Jesus and NOT himself to know it right.

To love The Truth - Jesus Christ - is therefore The Way to be saved - running in front of Him is simply bloody annoying for everyone involved.

1 Tim 4

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[Chris_G]

Too many people say a prayer, meaning it, and then are taught that you're in. You can go about, living your life however you want, and you are a shoe-in for Heaven. I think Alive Again may be making the point that, had you died right after that prayer, you'd go to Heaven. If your subsequently lived life shows no change, no desire to serve the One who saved you, then you will NOT go to Heaven. The works don't earn salvation, but they can and do prove it. If you have no works after years of "salvation," did you ever really have it?

Personally, I'm sketchy on that one. I really don't know with any certainty where the line is.

That's why the doctrine of "losing salvation" is false. Where is the imaginary line that one crosses from life back to death, from Spirit to the flesh, from justified to unjustified, from sanctified to unsanctified, from being alive in Christ to being dead in sin. It's not possible to go back, for He who began a good work in you, WILL FINISH IT.

The problem isn't people "losing their salvation." The problem is people thinking they're saved when they're not because at some point in their life they said a prayer, or asked Jesus into their heart and someone declared them to be saved. Although some people do get saved this way, it's only because of God's grace, as it was with all of us who are saved. The problem is with false converts. They may say they meant it when they said the prayer, the problem is, you don't really know if they did. They may say they believed or repented, but you don't know if they really did. You don't know until you see the evidence, the fruit of salvation. The evidence is that they continue in the faith, that's the hard evidence of genuine salvation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Too many people say a prayer, meaning it, and then are taught that you're in. You can go about, living your life however you want, and you are a shoe-in for Heaven. I think Alive Again may be making the point that, had you died right after that prayer, you'd go to Heaven. If your subsequently lived life shows no change, no desire to serve the One who saved you, then you will NOT go to Heaven. The works don't earn salvation, but they can and do prove it. If you have no works after years of "salvation," did you ever really have it?

Personally, I'm sketchy on that one. I really don't know with any certainty where the line is.

Such rationalizations are just the will trying to understand what cannot be understood . and control what and who cannot be controlled .

i feel no need to justify myself before the works parade .

God is my confidence on the day of Judgment . not the praises of men .

 

[Alive_Again]

<All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

This scripture talks about all men needing a saviour because no one is/was good enough on their own efforts to be in right standing with God.

Those who receive Jesus as their Lord, come into right standing. You receive a new nature in your inward man. It is the nature of a reborn spirit in unity with the Spirit of God. From two there are now one. That one man wears the righteous robe of salvation. A garment without spot or wrinkle. We go about in our walk having the ability to remain unspotted. Fortunately, if we are spotted or wrinkled, we turn to the Lord for mercy and cleansing. We go forth in the light a cleansed man.

<What I find so amazing how many believers in Christ will not humble themselves and admit defeat - for I tried fighting my flesh most of my life - very much like Alive Again to be at times even - yet found death and destruction was ruling me and my conscious hot or cold but never clear.

The defeat would be "trying" to be righteous on your own. That is a hopeless venture. Yet, the Lord has made a way to walk in righteousness, according to the nature of the vine. If we do, we bear fruit in plenty, If we fail to give heed and walk according to our flesh, our fruit changes from the righteous fruit of the Holy Spirit, to the fruits of death. It is only in our submission that we can yield to the Holy Spirit and produce good fruit.

There is deliverance from the areas of our lives that are not submitted to God. They are inhabited by spirits of darkness. We can be free by our submission and the name of Jesus. We must renounce the sin to become free. There is no reason that a Christian should not live a victorious life. It's already been paid for.

<So can you and I be free to be in both Light and Darkness and remain purely loving?

I do not believe you can love with the love of God and abide in darkness. The light overcomes darkness. If you live in Him, there is no occasion of sin.

<Can we achieve holiness ourself?
<Total Nonsense - can polluted waters purify themselves - or do we need an outside purifying force to deal with this?

We can do nothing ourselves. But in Christ I can do all things. Can we be holy in Christ? Yes! In fact, we are commanded to be holy and He is holy. This is done only by yielding in faith to the greater one in us.

<Paul knew very well that his battle was not with himself - and he let himself be totally free to be a sinner

Jeshu, I know you mean well, but this is not the gospel. This is another gospel. Paul acknowledged that within his flesh, dwelled everything contrary to that which he inwardly desired. He acknowledged that that victory was found in the walk of the Spirit (Romans 8). Romans 7 & 8 are the two chapters that talk about our 2 natures, and how they opposed each other. If we live to the flesh nature, we will die. If we walk in the Spirit, we have victory.

Jesus set us free from the bondage of sin. We don't have to be sinners anymore. That's the good news. That's why Jesus holds us accountable for our fruit. We now have a choice. It won't be "you" living, it will be Christ. It won't be "your" efforts. It will be your yielding. It won't be "your" holiness. It will be the holiness of God living within us. The divine nature.

<The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

I know you guys don't see this, but I believe a doctrine of demons is one that says no matter what I do now that I'm born again, I'm going to Heaven. That is contrary to every book in the Bible. The deceitfulness of sin means that the deceived does not see it. It is a form of slumber that says, "Everything's going to be ok". It will, if you give heed, obey and believe. Everything around you will contradict everything you stand for. You will be persecuted. The enemy will speak doctrine contrary to scripture. You have to guard your heart. Your flesh every day is going to want to be satisfied. You will have to stay in the Word, stay in prayer, serve God and the brethren, and preach to the world. God will be faithful, but we must also be faithful. If we do what He says, then we love Him. That's how He remains Lord. So you see, it's a choice you make all day, every day. Grace is still there will you fail, but you must rise up and fight the good fight of faith.

Jesus will finish the good work in us if we stick with Him and follow Him. There isn't such a thing as a 'false convert". You either did or didn't ask Jesus into your heart and received Him as Lord. You can fall away if you don't come out of the world. The Word says to touch not the unclean thing and come out from them. If you are of the world, God's divine nature is not flowing in you and you are fit to be gathered up and thrown into the fire. If you love the world and are of the world, the love of God is not in you. You can have the love of God in you one night, and go be of the world the next morning. Many are doing that now.

Michael, Do you not know that you have 34 lines of error in all of your messages?

 

[FaithPleases]

Philippians 1:6 reads And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns. Where is the abide in him part?

It does not read "And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work unitll it is finally finished if you abide in him when Christ Jesus returns."

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Michael, Do you not know that you have 34 lines of error in all of your messages?

Oh i'm sure you missed a spot . but hey .

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

 

[Jeshu]

Philippians 1:6 reads And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns. Where is the abide in him part?

It does not read "And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work unitll it is finally finished if you abide in him when Christ Jesus returns."

Excellent observation! I'm with you all the way bro!


Faith in Jesus saves - faith in works or letters creates fear which kills.

God wants us to love and trust Jesus and then read His Word in His Spirit of love so it can purify us of all our sin.

 

[Chris_G]

Excellent observation! I'm with you all the way bro!


Faith in Jesus saves - faith in works or letters creates fear which kills.

God wants us to love and trust Jesus and then read His Word in His Spirit of love so it can purify us of all our sin.

1 John is a letter we can trust to make sure our salvation is genuine, but it also is a letter on instruction for Christian living, just like the other letters. Apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, no one can conform their life to 1 John. 1 John will convict a sinning Christian, it will convict a Christian who's got one foot in the world and one in the church, it will convict a Christian who is indifferent to his brothers/sisters in Christ, it will convict a Christian who isn't walking as Jesus did. I find that some avoid 1 John because they will read something that convicts them. That's why the letter says in 1 John 5:13, "We write these things to you, so that you may know you have eternal life." What's the evidence that you are indeed trusting in Jesus for your salvation, and His Spirit is working in you? Read 1 John.

 

[Jeshu]

Watching On?

&#8220;Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.(Matt 24:42-43)


Some are enticed by the god of this world
serving a king who demands in return
Sweating for a crust - like all in Adam must!
Do this, do that, go here, go there
Rules and laws governing everything
Burning consciences demanding sacrifices
Hands in the dirt seeing weeds everywhere!
The sun scoring naked flesh full of sores
Scorpions stinging, horses trampling.
mustn't mustn't mustn't - yes I must!
no, no, no don't touch, don't look, don't say
Grasshoppers devouring, war, draught and famine!
What a dragon the god of works truly is.
A six foot hole at the end to earn.



Others walk a different Way than the norm.
Trusting that Christ means it when He says;
"Follow Me and be free!"
Following The Love of 't heart obediently.
Daily in His Rest - celebrating Christ's Victory.
Forgiving love bringing thankfulness alive,
Father's love teaching grace in real life.
Forgiven sinners - listening to The Word
Always truthfully loving God, self and other
Carefully observing The Master doing the work
Glorying in God's Victory praising with all His own.
Ruling beside Christ served by angel's delights.
While gnashing their teeth The Wicked look on.