No Eternal Security?

[FaithPleases]

The Gospel According To Charles Stanley

What do you guys think of the guy at the end? It seems he also believes in works. Do you think we have eternal security?

 

[irenemcg]

I know I am saved

Jesus sought me out offering a free gift you see,
His love and mercy were directed to even me,
For although I was undeserving and dead in sin,
He offered to me forgiveness and a new life to begin

So I came to Jesus one night long ago,
I was only a child yet I knew he loved me so,
And I am so thankful for the gift of salvation,
Which has made me into a new creation.

My parents were Christians but that wasn’t enough,
The Lord said to me “You have to deal with your own sin stuff,”
So even although I was only a child of seven,
I knew Jesus loved me and wanted me to have a home in heaven.

The Holy Spirit came and dwelt within me,
Restoring to me a relationship with Father God you see,
For two thousand years ago my Dear Saviour died,
Through his blood shed for me I have been justified.

And I confessed to others that Jesus is Lord of my life,
Telling others how they too can have Jesus in their lives,
Jesus asked me to be a witness to the people out there,
Telling them that he wants to save and restore them for he really cares.

I know I am saved because the Spirit birthed this longing in me,
To draw closer and closer to Jesus my Lord each and every day,
And I will walk in victory for Jesus washed my sins away,
Through trials and tribulations I know my Lord goes before me.

My sins past, present and future were washed away,
On that day when Jesus came into my heart to stay,
And Jesus is surely changing me this much I know,
Submitting all to him in response to his call I must surely go.

Irene McGough


However although I believe in eternal security I do not believe everyone who says the sinners prayer is necessarily saved. Salvation works a change within us, the fruits of the Spirit will be evident, obedience of discipleship evident because we are new creations.

1Jn 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1Jn 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[FaithPleases]

How can you keep the commandments if they cannot be followed perfectly?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

How can you keep the commandments if they cannot be followed perfectly?

I think what matters is us trying. Trying to do the Fathers will produces good fruit, even though we may fall..Christians must avoid things like fornication, adultery, theft, gossip, reviling, slander, swindling, homosexuality, idolatry and covetousness. Our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit and should not be abused or defiled.


I always hoped eternal security was true. But there are many bible passages that talk about followers losing their faith, returning to sin, the dog returning to his vomit parable in the epistles and the other parable about being worse off than before. Those passages can be scary for a christian's hope for eternal security.

 

[FaithPleases]

So how do I avoid losing faith etc

 

[FaithPleases]

What does it mean,to endure to the end?What did those people do to fall away?

 

[stormdancer0]

What does it mean,to endure to the end?What did those people do to fall away?

They went back to their own ways of doing things. I perform works for God not to earn or retain salvation, but because of the changes wrought in me when I became saved. Salvation does not occur because of works, but works is the natural result of salvation. Without works, faith in God is dead.

Yes, you can deliberately walk away from your salvation. God expects us to try to follow Him. Otherwise, you're just looking for fire insurance.

 

[childofGod31]

What does it mean,to endure to the end?What did those people do to fall away?

You are what you are. There is nothing you can do to change who you are. Those people loved darkness more than light. They showed their true colors.

If you are following God now, but later decide that you don't want to anymore, there is nothing you can do NOW to change your future decision. What you are will come to light at some point. Just be the best you can be, hope in God's love and mercy and hope that you are one of the good guys.

If you have a desire for God, you will be with God. When you lose the desire for God, you won't want to be..you won't care then.

Becoming a Christian in order to escape hell is kind of a wrong intent. Becoming a Christian should be because you BELIEVE in the lifestyle that Jesus taught. It should be because you WANT God. If you believe only because you are scared of the bad punishment, you might be one of the ones who later decide to fall away.

Faith is a delicate thing. It changes. As new information comes, your views and beliefs about God might change. For example, God told me that there is no hell, so I don't believe it anymore. And if you ask: well, what incentive is there then to try to be good, to serve God? Well, the incentive should be that you want to please God out of love, not out of fear. And the incentive should be that God's desires should become your desires as you draw closer to Him in your relationship with Him. You would want the same things He would want...

And if we fall short of being what we believe God wants us to be, there is always grace. That's why it's there. God knew in advance that we would fall short. It's no big deal. As long as the desire to be good is there, as long as you keep trying and keep growing, you are under the grace.

We should stop hoping in our own ability to secure our future. We should start blindly and with all heart trusting God to do it for us. But of course, before we can do that, we have to learn to trust him. And that comes from knowing Him personally and intimately.

 

[Chris_G]

No one will be justified by their works, whether it's works done before coming to Christ or after. No one will be justified. The bible is crystal clear on this. You are either saved or not saved. You are either in the dark or in the light. You are either a child of God or of Satan. You can not go back and forth between the two. Did you guys not read when Jesus said, "I give them eternal life and no one can snatch them out of my hand?" (John 10:28) That is our security! You need to understand what justification, sanctification and glorification is:
1.) Justification = you are delcared righteous before God by faith in His Son, in His works, His righteousness and what He did on the cross for you. When you repent and believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, your sins are lifted off of you, forgiven and forgotten and His blood covers you and His righteousness is imputed on to you, so that God sees you as though you have never sinned.
2.) Santification = Not only does God save you from the penalty of sin (eternal hell), He also breaks the power of sin over your life, so that you will not continue in open rebellion against God. You will sin, but it will not be habitual sin, and it will decrease. He starts a good work in you and will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ.
3.) Glorification = You will go to heaven when you die and recieve a glorified body.

This is the Gospel, the good news that God saves. You can't save yourself. If anyone who professes to be a Christian continues in sin, or walks away from their profession of faith, that demonstrates that he/she was never saved (read 1 John 2:19, 3:9). Read the book of 1 John, and it will tell you if you are saved. If you see your life in 1 John, then you're saved and are secure. If you don't, then repent and believe the Gospel. This is why the bible tells us to "examine yourself" to see if you are in the faith, because there will be people who profess Christ, but do not possess Christ. If they do not possess, then they are not saved.

 

[FaithPleases]

I am learning that God takes his time with us. In the three weeks I have been saved God has made me aware of my sins and the only one that is gone away with is cursing. Never a big deal but I did it to act cool before.

 

[Chris_G]

I am learning that God takes his time with us. In the three weeks I have been saved God has made me aware of my sins and the only one that is gone away with is cursing. Never a big deal but I did it to act cool before.

Santification is a step-by-step, day-by-day process. Do not expect perfection in this life, it will never happen, but that is our direction, and you will see sin decreasing in your life. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, and makes us aware of our sins as we read the bible. Do not use, "well I'm not perfect" as an excuse to sin. There is no excuse for sin, but there is forgiveness. Salvation, is God's work. He saves you and keeps you. Santification is you working with the Holy Spirit to be conformed more and more into the image of Christ. We will never be exactly like Christ in this life, until we stand before Him and are glorified with Him.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It is important with this to not fall into the pitfall of going under the law and falling from grace .

Galatians is a good letter for this .

We begin this new life by

Trusting God

and we continue to grow in this new life by

Trusting God

James is a good companion letter to galatians relating to the growth process and how "faith" can become "dead"

James expounds on Paul's concept "the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through Love"(Gal 5:6)

and shows what that love is . and does not promote the old testament law . but the law of freedom or liberty . that is written on our hearts . and centred no only on the number one commandment which is to love as you would like to be loved and as God has loved you but also to not show favoritism as God does not show favoritism .

hope my two mites are of assistance

Love bless .

-Michael

 

[Chris_G]

The Gospel According To Charles Stanley

What do you guys think of the guy at the end? It seems he also believes in works. Do you think we have eternal security?

I disagree with the concept of "conditional security." Read 1 John 3:9, "No one who is born of God, will continue to sin, because God seed is in him. He can not go on sinning.."

You see, a truly saved person, born again Christian, will not continue to sin the same way as he/she did before being saved. When someone comes to the cross of Christ for salvation, the power of sin is broken and he/she is free to practice righteousness. They can't go on in habitual, deliberate sin. Why? Because God's Holy Spirit is in them, convicting them and disciplining them. That's why Jesus said in John 8:36, "So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Any other salvation being preached is heresy.

 

[Chris_G]

It is important with this to not fall into the pitfall of going under the law and falling from grace .

Galatians is a good letter for this .

We begin this new life by

Trusting God

and we continue to grow in this new life by

Trusting God

James is a good companion letter to galatians relating to the growth process and how "faith" can become "dead"

James expounds on Paul's concept "the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through Love"(Gal 5:6)

and shows what that love is . and does not promote the old testament law . but the law of freedom or liberty . that is written on our hearts . and centred no only on the number one commandment which is to love as you would like to be loved and as God has loved you but also to not show favoritism as God does not show favoritism .

hope my two mites are of assistance

Love bless .

-Michael

I just wanted to point out, "faith" that becomes "dead" was never saving faith at all. Alot of people say, "I believe in God" or "I believe in Jesus," so do the demons and they're not saved. Because the demons won't repent and submit to Christ, so also many people will not repent and submit to Christ, even though they may have an intellectual "belief" in God or Jesus.

True saving faith WILL produce good works, and WILL bear good fruit. It WILL be evident. But, not all believers will bear the same amount of fruit, but there will be fruit, and it will be genuine.

 

[FaithPleases]

Repent means to change your way of thinking correct? And is that done by reading and meditating in the word? It does not say sumbit to christ and you shall be saved, right? Oh snap I just noticed you live in los angeles. I live in Diamond Bar. Do you happen to go to west angeles?

 

[Chris_G]

Repent means to change your way of thinking correct? And is that done by reading and meditating in the word? It does not say sumbit to christ and you shall be saved, right? Oh snap I just noticed you live in los angeles. I live in Diamond Bar. Do you happen to go to west angeles?

Repent is a conscious decision to turn away from the sin that is condemning you to a Savior. There's different components to the word "believe" that's used in the bible. Such components are: repentance, faith and submission. Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel." He also said, "If anyone comes after Me, let him deny himself, pick up his cross and follow Me." Other components of "believe" are faith and trust. When someone gets saved, the Holy Spirit comes into that person and works with that person to grow in sanctification, like I stated in another post. Following Christ is the process of sanctification and you can only do that if you are saved. Apart from Christ and being saved, you can't do anything.

 

[heron]

Oh my goodness to the article. Has there ever been a more self-disciplined, ethical TV preacher than Stanley? And yet the author thinks Stanley is at risk of generating sloppy Christians.

I think Stanley was preaching to himself, assuming others have the same tendencies toward works that he does. His sermons are directed to his own congregation, which would gravitate toward a similar-character pastor.

It was ridiculous for the author to select Stanley when trying to make a point about the direction of Christendom -- he just shot himself in the foot. There is a broad selection of others he could have chosen. His article points barely stand.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I just wanted to point out, "faith" that becomes "dead" was never saving faith at all. Alot of people say, "I believe in God" or "I believe in Jesus," so do the demons and they're not saved. Because the demons won't repent and submit to Christ, so also many people will not repent and submit to Christ, even though they may have an intellectual "belief" in God or Jesus.

True saving faith WILL produce good works, and WILL bear good fruit. It WILL be evident. But, not all believers will bear the same amount of fruit, but there will be fruit, and it will be genuine.

sure,

i think "eternal security" is more of a fear of fear mongering .

i think there are real dangers to the soul which is why it is better to see it as Him able to keep us from falling . then the focus is not so much a get out of jail free card . but God very God Himself .

 

[heron]

Man throughout history has had a tendency to want to lock things into place, build security in, cushion and reinforce, over-prepare, hyper-organize.

Tower of Babel
Tithing dill and cumin
Doctrinal fussiness

We like to find a way to secure our salvation, or at least find a way to know, to know how to lock that in. But God often leaves a little edge, so we do not rely on our own systems. He wants us to rely on Him.

Our relationship with God, and our eternal salvation is to be worked out with Him. If we say we want to spend eternity with Him, then we need to involve Him in getting there.

 

[jonathonbyrd]

The Gospel According To Charles Stanley

What do you guys think of the guy at the end? It seems he also believes in works. Do you think we have eternal security?

The bible is over 1200 pages for a reason, all of it is there to teach you something. It's there to teach you the battle that you are fighting, the goal to this battle and how to fight the battle.

The battle is not against satan, instead, the battle is against yourself, your own desires and your own actions.

Jesus himself says that many will be filled with joy when hearing the gospel, but when tested, they will fall away.

Understand that ITS NOT JUST A SMALL GATE INTO HEAVEN, ITS ALSO A SMALL ROAD TO THAT GATE. and few will find that road.

Do not rely on your own righteousness, because as soon as you do, you will die.