No dude ... IT IS WRONG

[Sketcher]

Prosperity gospel? Give me a break. I'd much rather have other things. This is from a "spirit-filled" branch too? What about the persecuted church? I don't know everything, but man this seems fishy.

Oh, they don't have enough faith. </WOF theology>

 

[Auntie]

I dont mean this to stir up strife..but I was more shocked when I heard a teaching of his that brought into question the divinity of Christ. Rich or not..this is a true heresy, especially dangerous since he has a strong influence on so many people. May God be merciful and enlighten him with truth where he is in error.

Amen.

 

[Auntie]

Prosperity gospel? Give me a break. I'd much rather have other things. This is from a "spirit-filled" branch too? What about the persecuted church? I don't know everything, but man this seems fishy.

Amen.

 

[Auntie]

Thanks, sadly, it's true.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on Foru.ms are not necessarily the views and opinions held by the Bible, or it's parent company, God Inc.

Amen, and amen.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

As it is written, in 3 John 1:2, "I wish above all things that you would prosper even as your soul prospers."

And Jesus said, "what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?"
Matthew 16:26, Luke 9:25

Obviously our souls are the most important thing and our relationship with the Lord.
That should be already understood.

Jesus also said, "but seek ye first the kingdom of God AND all its righteousness,
and these things will be added unto you."Matthew 6:33

It is good to have so you can give. The druglords aren't going to be the
ones to do it. And the needy and hungry should be able to come to the people
of God and find help. No need to despise abundance. Despise rather the
temptations to do things with the abundance that would not bring glory
to God or would be detrimental to your spiritual health and would not
bring blessing to those in need around you.

God bless.

I don't despise it, but I don't enjoy the teaching. We are also told we will be hated and that no servant is greater than his/her master... How dire do you think the punishment is for those who misuse their blessings? (Parable of the Talents comes to mind, but I'm not certain of it's relevance.) I think the "prosperity gospel" is heresy really. At least materially speaking. It opens up to a road of bad things. We are all rich spiritually though.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Well, apparently "not enjoying" what God has said, is something you'll have to work out for yourself. As far as the persecuted Church goes, perhaps those of us in our free to worship areas of the world are not doing what we can to help them, and are too consumed with self.

As far as the other things go, I haven't seen any evidence yet, by one poster here that the man in question has misused or abused anything God has given him and until I do, I have nothing bad to say about the man in question.

God bless.

I don't despise it, but I don't enjoy the teaching. We are also told we will be hated and that no servant is greater than his/her master... How dire do you think the punishment is for those who misuse their blessings? (Parable of the Talents comes to mind, but I'm not certain of it's relevance.) I think the "prosperity gospel" is heresy really. At least materially speaking. It opens up to a road of bad things. We are all rich spiritually though.

 

[sageoffools]

I am reminded of a passage of Scripture. (This is the problem that I have with the "prosperity gospel")

Hebrews 11:32-38 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.

Yes, God blessed some of the people, so that they experienced great and miraculous deliverances by God. But OTHERS. Others did not see the same kind of deliverance, they were sawn assunder, they lived in caves and mountains. It was not because they had any less faith than the ones that received deliverance, Hebrews even says that the world was not worthy of them, it was because God had something different planned for their lives.
God does not work in every persons life the same way, so to say that if you are fabulously wealthy it's because you are not right with God, is to do a disservice to all the Christians who have and continue to suffer for the sake of Christ.

 

[nyj]

Well, apparently "not enjoying" what God has said, is something you'll have to work out for yourself.

My point was not to start a discussion on the "prosperity gospel". My comments were railing against a minister who admitted to indulging in excess, but claimed that it wasn't necessarily wrong (I happen to disagree). I don't agree with you when you claim that the "prosperity gospel" is "God's word", but I'm not going to tell you that you ignore God. So please, don't say that to other people.

There are things we're going to have to agree to disagree with around here, and obviously this is one of them. Let's just not start casting judgement on each other. And yes, I know someone else took a shot at the prosperity gospel, and maybe I should have responded to that comment as well as this one ... but I didn't, so sue me. My comment stands for everyone though, let's discuss (or not) the issues without telling each other we're wrong, misled ... what not.

 

[Sketcher]

My point was not to start a discussion on the "prosperity gospel". My comments were railing against a minister who admitted to indulging in excess, but claimed that it wasn't necessarily wrong (I happen to disagree). I don't agree with you when you claim that the "prosperity gospel" is "God's word", but I'm not going to tell you that you ignore God. So please, don't say that to other people.

Since he's a prosperity "gospel" teacher, you can't really separate the two. If he were, let's say, a Franciscan monk, he would be a lot less likely to be driving a Rolls.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I disagree with you that accepting the gift was wrong. Furthermore, I am not advocating anything other than what the Word of God says and I am also saying I will not speak against this man the way several have based on personal biases, as no one has provided any evidence thus far that this man is guilty of anything underhanded, and until I see any, I will hold to my opinion and hold back my stone.

I do not believe that you "give" in order to "get".
I believe THIS is what you are really against, as well as I am.
God is not a lotto machine and he doesn't work like a day at the horse races.

That being said and hopefully understood, you must know that God loves
a cheerful giver and He gives seed to those who will sow it.

2 Corinthians 9:7, 10-13
Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

Now he that ministers seed to the sower both ministers bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness; Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causes through us thanksgiving to God.

For the administration of this service not only supplies the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;

He does not multiply the seeds of those who give in order that they may get. That is not the heart of a giver, and is not what the Lord is looking for.

Father God does not work that way.

Try not to be angry with me and throw out the baby with the bathwater. He does not give seed for no purpose, just so one can have. On these things I believe we absolutely agree.


See Luke 6:35, 38 below

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

God bless

My point was not to start a discussion on the "prosperity gospel". My comments were railing against a minister who admitted to indulging in excess, but claimed that it wasn't necessarily wrong (I happen to disagree). I don't agree with you when you claim that the "prosperity gospel" is "God's word", but I'm not going to tell you that you ignore God. So please, don't say that to other people.

There are things we're going to have to agree to disagree with around here, and obviously this is one of them. Let's just not start casting judgement on each other. And yes, I know someone else took a shot at the prosperity gospel, and maybe I should have responded to that comment as well as this one ... but I didn't, so sue me. My comment stands for everyone though, let's discuss (or not) the issues without telling each other we're wrong, misled ... what not.

 

[rmw8855]

My point was not to start a discussion on the "prosperity gospel". My comments were railing against a minister who admitted to indulging in excess, but claimed that it wasn't necessarily wrong (I happen to disagree). I don't agree with you when you claim that the "prosperity gospel" is "God's word", but I'm not going to tell you that you ignore God. So please, don't say that to other people.

There are things we're going to have to agree to disagree with around here, and obviously this is one of them. Let's just not start casting judgement on each other. And yes, I know someone else took a shot at the prosperity gospel, and maybe I should have responded to that comment as well as this one ... but I didn't, so sue me. My comment stands for everyone though, let's discuss (or not) the issues without telling each other we're wrong, misled ... what not.

Thank you nyj. That was why I got upset earlier. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I do expect them to show my beliefs the same respect I give to theirs.

I chose to drop out of the discussion after it became an issue of how wrong WOF is because it is an arguement none of us can win. I am not going to change my mind about WOF because someone disagrees with it, just as they are not going to change their mind about their doctrine.

 

[Tenebrae]

Thank you nyj. That was why I got upset earlier. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I do expect them to show my beliefs the same respect I give to theirs.

I chose to drop out of the discussion after it became an issue of how wrong WOF is because it is an arguement none of us can win. I am not going to change my mind about WOF because someone disagrees with it, just as they are not going to change their mind about their doctrine.

My apologies if you thought I was dissing on your beliefs.

starting to think about adding to my signature

"This is based on my own experience and should not be taken as a blanket statement over all christians"

 

[rmw8855]

My apologies if you thought I was dissing on your beliefs.

starting to think about adding to my signature

"This is based on my own experience and should not be taken as a blanket statement over all christians"

You were fine Freitag. I wasn't upset with anything you said. In fact, some of it really made me think.

 

[DerSchweik]

"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"

True - and I think quite measured and insightful (as always). Thanks Free. Great example.

---

As others have intimated, we are to be cautious judging others. That is, we are to be cautious judging their motives, their heart - stuff we simply cannot know.

But at the same time, we ARE to judge what we can plainly see.

The "wealthy" are typically the people with one more dollar than us (putting us ALL on someone's "wealthy" scale); still I must admit, this story makes my eyebrows rise in wonder...

Of Jesus, Isaiah wrote:

"He has no stately form or majesty
that we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face,
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him."

Born in a manger, ministered with just the clothes on His back, a man with "nowhere to lay His head," died on a cross... Resurrected to utmost glory.

Solomon was wealthier than anyone else on earth, and wiser too - in the end, having found everything vain and worthless (e.g. pleasure, wealth...), he acknowledged this:

"The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

While I am tempted to judge (I admit I think this is excess), I need only look to my own deeds of this very day and get down on my knees in humility and pray to God for my own forgiveness.

 

[IamRedeemed]

God bless.

Please understand the purpose of Jesus' coming when He came the first time.
These points you bring to the table do not negate all of the promises of God in the least.

Jesus did not want to "attract" anyone by anything He was "outwardly". He was not coming
in all of His Glory, yet He still owned the cattle on a thousand hills at that time. He came
as the lamb of God.
Please also note, that He and His disciples were not "broke". Not only did Jesus have a
treasurer (Judas) who was robbing them blind and no one noticed, (but Jesus of course knew)
Jesus could get a coin at any time, just as He did to pay the taxes unto Caesar
from when He told Peter to go and get it from the fish' mouth.

He and those with Him had need of nothing.

Remember also that His clothing was of such the highest quality that the soldiers
casted lots for it. He wasn't a bum. If He would have come as the King of Glory that
He is though, they would have put Him on the throne and not the cross.

again, God bless

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

What I have said on Creflo Dollar's behalf is that I have seen him preach plenty more
besides the fact that the King's kids should not be begging bread and he lives what he preaches.
Mike Murdock on the other hand, I would run as far away from him as I could get if I were you.

That's my impression as well.

Whether or not one approves of all of what Creflo Dollar teaches, some of what he teaches is great stuff. He may be off-track in some ways, but I feel good about him and would honored to meet him. OTOH, Mike Murdock just gives me the creeps. As one little girl said to another evangelist who placed a lot of emphasis on money, "The God I believe in ain't short o' cash, mister."

 

[IamRedeemed]

LOL, right? That guy gives me the creeps as well. Besides the fact that he prostitutes the things of God, his looks are freaky hahahaha!

That's my impression as well.

Whether or not one approves of all of what Creflo Dollar teaches, some of what he teaches is great stuff. He may be off-track in some ways, but I feel good about him and would honored to meet him. OTOH, Mike Murdock just gives me the creeps. As one little girl said to another evangelist who placed a lot of emphasis on money, "The God I believe in ain't short o' cash, mister."

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

That's nice.

I guess giving to the poor is not exactly a priority.

i live near creflo's ministry. most of his followers are poor minorities.

i have no patience for this stuff. these people should be ashamed of themselves.

come, Lord Jesus, come!