No dude ... IT IS WRONG

[sageoffools]

I think the issue that this senator, as well as many others, has is the "pastors" of these media churches using their "authority" as "men of God" and their supposed knowledge of the Bible to coerce people into sending them money. Especially when they "promise" that the money will be returned in greater amount to those that give it.
I would be concerned with any person in a position of authority using any coercive measures to get people to send them money.
If the President got on TV and said "Unless you send as much money to me personally as you can, the economy is going to collapse. But don't worry! God will return every dollar that you send to me with $100!" I would expect him to be investigated as well.
If giving to God really worked that way, then why do these "churches" need people to send their life savings in?

 

[ContentInHim]

I believe that the ministries which are being investigated are not members of the evangelical financial watchdog group - whose name escapes me at the moment. There are many wealthy ministries who are under the watchdog umbrella - who report their finances and have an open book policy.

I worry for those believers, ministers or not, who concentrate on gaining wealth to show how blessed and saved they are. I think wealth is wonderful also but to use for the Kingdom of God, not the Kingdom of Content! I fully intend to leave this earthly existance with absolutely nothing in the bank.

 

[Latreia]

This is true of any elderly who are forced to enter nursing homes.

 

[Hentenza]

But he said the church gave him a Rolls Royce, which he uses largely for special occasions.

That's nice.

I guess giving to the poor is not exactly a priority.

 

[free2be]

"Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"

 

[sageoffools]

That's nice.

I guess giving to the poor is not exactly a priority.

Maybe they consider him poor?

 

[Latreia]

Maybe they consider him poor?

 

[Hentenza]

Maybe they consider him poor?

LOL!!! I guess a shiny Mercedes just wasn't enough.

 

[Latreia]

LOL!!! I guess a shiny Mercedes just wasn't enough.

Aw, all right, maybe just a small, dusty one.

 

[Hentenza]

You know guys, I haven't priced a Rolls lately but would imagine that is probably a few hundred thousand dollars. It just boggles my mind that a church would spend that kind of money. Even if the car was donated, the money that it would fetch could help quite a few needy folks.

 

[Hentenza]

Nm

 

[rmw8855]

That's nice.
I guess giving to the poor is not exactly a priority.

I think the issue that this senator, as well as many others, has is the "pastors" of these media churches using their "authority" as "men of God" and their supposed knowledge of the Bible to coerce people into sending them money. <snip>

Guys you are making assumptions. We don't have all of the facts. I don't know all of the ministries, but I have been connected to Kenneth Copeland Ministries for years. They do not coerce money from anyone. It is a point of pride & obedience to God that they do not "go begging" for money. Their letters, magazines, etc. are for teaching / uplifting. Yes they take an offering at meetings and once a week on their television broadcast but that is based on their bible belief that if you don't sow a seed you can not be blessed. You may disagree with that but that doesn't make them greedy evil people. After Katrina, they loaded truckloads of supplies to help out. Anytime there is a disaster their prayer team calls all of their partners in the area to see if they are okay or need any help. They support prison ministries, crusades in Africa, on & on. We don't know how much of their personal income they give away. To be honest it is none of our business.

As long as they report all income properly to the IRS and the IRS (not the most trusting organization by any means) is satisfied that they have not violated their 501c status, then why is the senate getting involved.

I apologize for rambling and this wasn't directed specifically at the 2 posts I quoted.

 

[Hentenza]

Aw, all right, maybe just a small, dusty one.

 

[Cromwe11]

In my opinion, this whole group has sold themselves and their faith. My opinion isn't based on what they do with their money, but the fact that they have perverted their teaching and grossly distorted the truth.

 

[rmw8855]

In my opinion, this whole group has sold themselves and their faith. My opinion isn't based on what they do with their money, but the fact that they have perverted their teaching and grossly distorted the truth.

I can't even answer this without getting upset. Thank you for belittling my beliefs.

 

[nyj]

Guys you are making assumptions. We don't have all of the facts. I don't know all of the ministries, but I have been connected to Kenneth Copeland Ministries for years.

My only beef concerning all of this, is Mr. Dollar admitting the Rolls Royce is excessive, but attempting to justify it by saying "just because it's excessive doesn't mean it's wrong".

Gluttony, IMO, extends beyond food and drink. "Excessive indulgence" is another way to define gluttony, and IMO, Mr. Dollar has copped to it. As for Kenneth Copeland and his ministry ... I have never heard anything even remotely unsavory ... so I have no beef with him.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Oh, people like Kenneth Copeland and Andrew Wommack are wonderful, because they are absolutely rooted in the Bible, and they're solidly WoF.

But Dollar, Hinn and to an extent, even Joyce Meyer are slightly more difficult to trust

 

[rmw8855]

My only beef concerning all of this, is Mr. Dollar admitting the Rolls Royce is excessive, but attempting to justify it by saying "just because it's excessive doesn't mean it's wrong".

Gluttony, IMO, extends beyond food and drink. "Excessive indulgence" is another way to define gluttony, and IMO, Mr. Dollar has copped to it. As for Kenneth Copeland and his ministry ... I have never heard anything even remotely unsavory ... so I have no beef with him.

Thank you nyj.

I respect everyone's right to voice their opinion (even when I think they are wrong ) & that wasn't what bothered me. It was the comment that "they sold their faith" (by implication to the devil or materialism).

Someone can disagree with a christian belief system without judging / condemning those who practice it. Only God knows their hearts. Even if they are wrong, it doesn't mean that they don't sincerely believe in their interpretation of the bible. It doesn't mean that they have "sold their faith".

Honestly, I don't think any 1 denomination is correct. All of them are probably wrong in some ways & correct in some ways.

 

[sageoffools]

Guys you are making assumptions. We don't have all of the facts. I don't know all of the ministries, but I have been connected to Kenneth Copeland Ministries for years. They do not coerce money from anyone. It is a point of pride & obedience to God that they do not "go begging" for money. Their letters, magazines, etc. are for teaching / uplifting. Yes they take an offering at meetings and once a week on their television broadcast but that is based on their bible belief that if you don't sow a seed you can not be blessed. You may disagree with that but that doesn't make them greedy evil people. After Katrina, they loaded truckloads of supplies to help out. Anytime there is a disaster their prayer team calls all of their partners in the area to see if they are okay or need any help. They support prison ministries, crusades in Africa, on & on. We don't know how much of their personal income they give away. To be honest it is none of our business.

As long as they report all income properly to the IRS and the IRS (not the most trusting organization by any means) is satisfied that they have not violated their 501c status, then why is the senate getting involved.

I apologize for rambling and this wasn't directed specifically at the 2 posts I quoted.

RMW, I'm not claiming to have all of the facts, nor am I saying anything about Kenneth Copeland, I don't really know all that much about him. But I have personally heard Benny Hinn proclaim the 100 fold blessing, telling people that if they send him as much money as they possibly can, God will return that amount 100 fold. That is a distortion of the Bible, and it is no truth found anywhere in there. That is coercion, and he is not the only one doing it.
As I said, this may not apply to all of the people being investigated, but it certainly applies to at least some of them.

 

[rmw8855]

Hey sage - I love your disclaimer

I just noticed it - my comment has nothing to do with this thread.