No CIO - age 2 & up

[katelyn]

Reading the thread about babies being held to go to sleep inspired me to write this thread - I didn't want to derail that thread but wanted to see what people would have to say about the following:

We are a no CIO family. Our girls are 3.5 and 21 months, and bedtime is not a fun time around our house.

My 21-month-old is still nursing and still wants to be nursed to sleep. It's not something I want to do anymore - I'm fine with nursing her as part of bedtime routine, but trying to lay her down without waking her up is getting old, and rarely works anymore unless she's extremely tired.

The 3.5-year-old still needs someone to stay in her room until she falls asleep. Not a big deal if it takes her 10-15 minutes to fall asleep, but sometimes it's much longer than that.

My husband and I are both tired of sitting at their bedsides for such a long time. I am also starting to feel like my "CIO" stance is a farce because in reality the 21-month-old gets mad any time I make her not nurse to sleep, and cries for at least a while in protest, even though I'm sitting right next to her.

I still don't believe in CIO for infants, but more and more as I look ahead to plans for future children, I can relate to others who felt a strong need to one way or another teach their child to be okay sleeping in their own bed.

I noticed that some no-CIO people said that their children transitioned to their own beds just fine. I was wondering if any of you might be able to share any tips on how to make the transition because I'm feeling overwhelmed - in fact it's part of why we haven't had another child yet. Bedtime is such a nightmare at our house, I can't imagine adding another child to the mix.

 

[PegasusOnFire]

we were/are a semi CIO household, and no longer have any crying issues at bed time, nap time is another story.

Our girls know they have a bed time and are expected to be in bed and stay in bed until they fall asleep, they now play quietly in their room until they fall asleep, which is normally 5-10 minutes. They are 3.5 yrs and 16 months, the 16 month old still needs a bottle before she will go to sleep, but that saves the headache of her screaming.

 

[jgonz]

Katelyn, each baby/toddler/child's personality plays into this as well. There are some kids out there that just can't go to sleep by themselves for a Long time. My 10 yr old still can't sleep in a room by himself. That's just him.... so he, his 8 yr old brother, and 6 yr old sister all sleep in the den on sleeping bags every night. (My 6 yr old can sleep by herself, but she just wants to be included with her brothers. lol)

I guess I would suggest letting the girls sleep next to each other and see how that works... It's possible that they are nervous about being alone during the night.

 

[Neenie1]

Do they share a room? That would be something I would look into.

With the 3 1/2 year old, is she old enough to be "talked around" like saying she's a big girl and can go to sleep in her own bed by herself? Would she listen to some worship music, or even a story cd in her room?

Not so sure about the 21 month old, both of mine were happy to go to sleep by themselves at that age, and both had self weaned by then also. Maybe just nurse her, then put her in the cot and sit with her until she has settled?

 

[Leanna]

I agree, have them share a room! David and Maya share a room now, though she is sleeping in a crib. At bedtime I let them have books and toys to sit on their beds with and play until they go to sleep.

 

[katelyn]

I would love to have them share a room. Right now Natalie's room has a double mattress on the floor, and I've tried having them sleep there together. But in general, Noelle has been too wild (rolling on and hitting her sister, refusing to stay in bed, etc.) for it to work.

But last night we came to terms with the fact that despite how young she is, it seems like Noelle is at the end of her napping days. She'll fall asleep nursing in the afternoon, but not stay asleep more than 10 minutes or so unless I hold her or lay with her the whole time. The days when I do manage to get her to take a real nap are followed with the nights where she's wild and driving me crazy by not going to bed.

So maybe if she stops taking her nap and is actually *tired* at bedtime, the sibling bed will be doable. I do know from the few times they have slept in the same room that it helps them to sleep through the night better.

 

[Leanna]

Or if the sibling bed doesn't work, get them each a bed... some kids need space. Teach them to stay on their own bed and respect the other's space unless the other has invited them. I don't know what your bedtimes are like, but you could look into just shortening Noelle's nap or instituting quiet time, we have a quiet time for all

 

[Macx]

What is CIO?

 

[jgonz]

"Cry It Out"

 

[Stan53]

I was wondering if any of you might be able to share any tips on how to make the transition because I'm feeling overwhelmed

I have written a bit in the other thread.
Bare in mind, Michele our eldest we did CIO because we were left with no option.
Your eldest, at 3.5 years is old enough to be told to stay in her bed with appropriate action being taken if she doesn't obey. We would never put up with sitting forever beside the bed.
Transitioning for us was very gradual. First my wife would place Michele into a cot for day time naps from when she was around 4 or 5 months. She was full time in the cot by the time she was 9 months. From the cot to an ordinary bed was started when Michele was 20 months old. That was because she was potty trained and I took one side off the cot so she could go to potty on her own.
Cathy our youngest, we co-sleep with. However, we have had a mattress beside our double bed from the time Cathy was around 7 - 8 months old. She starts out on the mattress and usually finishes up in our bed.
Now, we also allow Michele to share the mattress on the floor in our room with Cathy if she wishes. And she does do that every now and then.
Just a couple of disclaimers.
First, in our house we do not, under any circumstances allow disobedience. The child does what the child is told when the child is told. Full stop end of that story.
Second, co-sleeping is not officially recommended. We do co-sleep, but I can't and wont recommend it. It's just what we do.

 

[Macx]

Thanks. Interesting stuff. Our baby is pretty outlandishly good natured at almost a year she sleeps in her crib in her own room without fussing at night. Nap time seems to sometimes require a bit of "cry it out", but most often it is because we've let her get too tired and she hates pausing from her activity to nap. . . so a swaddle will put her out in short order and that is the end of it. Can't fault a kid for 3 mins of fuss every few days.

 

[katelyn]

Our 3.5 year old is extremely sensitive. We too expect obedience, but she has an extreme, irrational fear of being alone at bedtime. I've tried to discuss it with her to try to help her through her fears, but she's not able to explain it to me at this point. When we even discuss it, she starts crying and can only say that she doesn't want to be left alone.

Macx, I agree with you that it's no big deal if a child needs to fuss a little in the process of settling down for sleep. There's a difference between small protestations of having to go to bed and leaving a child wailing for who knows how long.

Leanna, I think you're right about them needing their own beds. We tried the sibling bed tonight with no luck. Actually, Noelle's still awake - she crashed at about 4:30 after not taking her nap today and was only asleep 1/2 an hour or so, but it was enough to mess up bedtime. But I think even when she's tired, having Natalie in the same bed is too great a temptation for her. She is in a stage where she likes to test the limits and see what she can get away with.

I'm hoping that if we can establish a routine where they get used to each other's company at night, things will go more smoothly. One can hope, right?

 

[Stan53]

"but she has an extreme, irrational fear of being alone at bedtime." Umm, this is going to sound crazy, but here goes. A friend of ours had a little boy in a similar situation. She got a mattress and a blanket and had the boy bed down in what ever room they were in. Once he got use to the lights and noise and they got use to him being where they were it worked just fine. Sounds crazy, but if your against CIO it might just be worth a try.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Reading the thread about babies being held to go to sleep inspired me to write this thread - I didn't want to derail that thread but wanted to see what people would have to say about the following:

We are a no CIO family. Our girls are 3.5 and 21 months, and bedtime is not a fun time around our house.

My 21-month-old is still nursing and still wants to be nursed to sleep. It's not something I want to do anymore - I'm fine with nursing her as part of bedtime routine, but trying to lay her down without waking her up is getting old, and rarely works anymore unless she's extremely tired.

The 3.5-year-old still needs someone to stay in her room until she falls asleep. Not a big deal if it takes her 10-15 minutes to fall asleep, but sometimes it's much longer than that.

My husband and I are both tired of sitting at their bedsides for such a long time. I am also starting to feel like my "CIO" stance is a farce because in reality the 21-month-old gets mad any time I make her not nurse to sleep, and cries for at least a while in protest, even though I'm sitting right next to her.

I still don't believe in CIO for infants, but more and more as I look ahead to plans for future children, I can relate to others who felt a strong need to one way or another teach their child to be okay sleeping in their own bed.

I noticed that some no-CIO people said that their children transitioned to their own beds just fine. I was wondering if any of you might be able to share any tips on how to make the transition because I'm feeling overwhelmed - in fact it's part of why we haven't had another child yet. Bedtime is such a nightmare at our house, I can't imagine adding another child to the mix.

At 20 months and 3 1/2 years... they are set in a habit.... changing that habit won't be easy to do unless you're willing to deal with some tears... atleast that's my take.

For future reference... I'm a cio mom that posted that all my babies were sleeping soundly in their beds starting at 4 months old. Letting them CIO didn't take long... and if you think about it this way, it is a way to teach them to self sooth... if for example when they cry and you are always there to the rescue to sooth... then what you have taught them is that the only way to overcome their woh's is for mommy or daddy to comfort them, which I'm sure the bonding you have at the time is great... but eventually it'll benefit them to become self sufficient.

As far as our rules went for letting our infants cio, we had a 15 minute rule... of course it adjusted depending on the age.... if it's a real young infant like 2 months old.. when we started with our first, we had like a 5 or 10 minute rule where we layed them down in bed snuggled tight in their blankets for comfort, and let them cry for 5-10 minutes before we picked them up and comforted them, calmed them down, and put them down again to do it again... well that's how we start, but ultimately we get to the point to having to let them cio for 30-45 minutes tops, a lot of times they'd fall asleep by that time, but sometimes they didn't. It also has a lot to do with learning their cries... sometimes they'd cry with an angry cry, sometimes they'd have a tired cry, stop for a while, then start to cry again, then stop before they fell asleep. I think the longest it took us was 2 weeks tops to train them this way, with my last baby it took a lot less and within a week it'd only take her 5 minutes tops, if not right away, to fall asleep in her crib. She's 14 months now and LOVES her crib, sometimes if we wait too long to put her down she'll waddle to her crib and fuss indicating she wants to be put down. And she is so happy the minute she gets put in her crib... thumb in mouth, pats her blanket, and then she's out!

I think a lot of people associate cio with abandonment... but really it's not abandonment... we aren't leaving them in their cribs all day... and usually by the time hub and I begin to train them to sleep in their beds, they usually aren't consolable by nursing, being held anyways. We began with my first when he was 2 months old... but with the other two we waited until they were closer to 4 months old... and like I said it's not abandonment or neglect, because we pay attention to the cry and by then we've learned what the baby needs for the most part.... and at that time the baby needs to sleep... it's not hungry, wanting to be held, needing a diaper change..... it needs to sleep but is having a difficult time getting there.

It's a tough time for parents with my first two my husband initiated it when I was at work doing the night shifts, and it's hard simply because we don't like hearing our babies cry... but it's not harming them. Inorder to teach our kids lots of things we have to be willing to let them learn on their own and cry... including learning how to ride bikes, and learning other frustrating things.

I don't really know what advice to give you right now, if it were me, I'd cut them off cold turkey and expect them to cry for a few nights... but this is how my husband and I teach our kids lots of things. We are more of the "tough love" type. When I transitioned my son from a crib to his bed, we did it simply by deciding it was time and taking down his crib one day, then put a baby gate up in his doorways. He spent the first week or two sleeping on the floor by the gate rather then sleeping in his new toddler bed, but eventually he transitioned himself to his bed.

Maybe if you decide to start letting them CIO you could set a time limit at first, like let them fuss and cry for only a certain time before going in.... then lengthen the time... the only prob with that is that if your 3 year old is anything like my 3 year old.... she'll scream and cry until you give in because she knows you'll eventually do it. We've made the mistake of letting her sleep in our bed.. and it takes several days to break her from trying to scream and cry to get us to do it. She's a lot more stubborn then my oldest is...

We have to get tough with her and spank (yes we spank too.. shock).

Something I've seen on Super Nanny... the method she teaches parents to do is consistantly put the kids back in their beds... at first some of these kids had their parents up all night doing this... because they changed their habit... she'd have the parents talk to them gently at first, but then get more firm... because if the kids wanted the parents in their, then after the parents left they'd leave the room after their parents, and then the parents would have to physically put them back in their rooms and leave and repeat this over and over until the child finally gave in.

Just know that when you change a habit, it's going to be hard AT FIRST, but when the kids learn that you mean business, they'll adjust. It's also important to be consistant, otherwise they'll resist even harder if they know you'll eventually give in.

Good luck.

HB

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Also, it makes a big difference if you have a relaxing routine at bedtime... this has also helped my 3 year old... I have a 6 year old boy, 3 1/2 year old girl, and 14 month old girl....

I found that when we consistantly had snack, changed for bed, brushed teeth, then read a story.... usually on the couch in our living room, then went to bed and said our prayers, along with the CIO at first, it became easier for her.... before long after story time she'd go lay in her bed, suck her thumb, without a peep...

We are having problems with her again... not going to bed, but rather waking me up in the middle of the night that I'm having to deal with...

We don't have that routine anymore because of work schedule changes... but I plan to start doing it again.

HB

 

[Leanna]

The opening poster specifically requested advice that was not cry it out so I think a post saying that a child is sometimes left more than 45 minutes screaming is.... er, not helpful....

 

[Gods4me]

right so cio is just leaving the baby to cry till they fall asleep... yes?

see what i done was called control crying. it was a matter of putting the baby to cry for 2 mins then go and check they are ok then go in after 4 mins check them let them know its time for bed. its not a very detailed description.

is that the same as cio to you?

i had a really good book about getting kids togo to bed it was called "baby and toddler sleep programme." it was really good. my aunt used it for her twins, i used it for my boy and my friend used it for hers and we all agreed it was great.

 

[marezee]

we are a no CIO family. My first son was great. He took to a bedtime routine without any quarrels. My second son was a different story. He cried and cried. He wanted me to stay at his bedside until he fell asleep...i did that for about 3 nights. I was exhausted!
I finally told him mommy wasn't going to do this anymore. I sat at his bedside one more night. Then for the next week, I gradually sat a few feet away from him, then a few more feet, etc, until I was sitting at the door, then out of the door down the hall. He got the idea, and after that was content for me to leave him while he was still awake. He was almost two at the time.
My 3rd son was no picnic either. After i stopped breastfeeding him, it took us about a month b4 the bedtime routine kicked in. We have had the same bedtime routine since our first was born (my boys are now 6,5, &3)...of course we tweeked it as they grew older, but it still works for us.
We get them into their pjs at 7pm. then they have a snack if hungry. the house is quiet at this time. then at 7:30pm, we do their teeth, etc.
then read a story in their room. At this point we hug & kiss goodnight, say our prayers, and mommy leaves the room. then daddy tells them a story by mouth with the lights out. after that, daddy leaves the room and the boys are expected to stay quiet in their beds unless they need to go to the bathroom. they have water & tissues at their bedside, so no getting up for those things.
For the most part, our boys do very well with this routine. sorry this was so long.

 

[appleofhiseye]

Maybe just let your little girls sleep with you but on the floor or a mattress beside your bed?

I didn't have any bedtime routine or set program until my kids went to school and had to be sure they were getting enough sleep, So maybe I am not a good parent, but I just let them stay up with me or sleep on the floor or sofa until I went to bed, then I put them in their own beds.

When they turned 5 and it was time for school they were told it's bedtime. I may have had some protests, but no fits of crying. So I may have not been the proper parent, but that worked for me, My kids are 5 and 7, and they understand its bedtime, go to bed.

 

[Linnis]

My 21-month-old is still nursing and still wants to be nursed to sleep. It's not something I want to do anymore - I'm fine with nursing her as part of bedtime routine, but trying to lay her down without waking her up is getting old, and rarely works anymore unless she's extremely tired.

I began moving back, the last nursing before sleep, in the bedtime routine around 9 months old. First it was second last, then third last. For a while I rocked him after nursing him but we cut that out eventually too. He was not left to CIO and he began going to sleep without having to nurse to sleep.

The 3.5-year-old still needs someone to stay in her room until she falls asleep. Not a big deal if it takes her 10-15 minutes to fall asleep, but sometimes it's much longer than that.

My husband and I are both tired of sitting at their bedsides for such a long time. I am also starting to feel like my "CIO" stance is a farce because in reality the 21-month-old gets mad any time I make her not nurse to sleep, and cries for at least a while in protest, even though I'm sitting right next to her.

Are you sure this is CIO? I mean what happens if they you left the 3.5 year old in her room to fall asleep with the door open? Tell her to try and fall asleep and if she can't come and find you.

I tried this once with my son and with less than 45 seconds of crying he was out. Didn't even have time to get down from his bed and come get me.

I ignore my son sometimes when he's crying because he's mad because I won't give him what he wants. Would you feel that's CIO? If you are sitting right next to her, she's not crying alone so IMHO she's not CIO.

I still don't believe in CIO for infants, but more and more as I look ahead to plans for future children, I can relate to others who felt a strong need to one way or another teach their child to be okay sleeping in their own bed.

I noticed that some no-CIO people said that their children transitioned to their own beds just fine. I was wondering if any of you might be able to share any tips on how to make the transition because I'm feeling overwhelmed - in fact it's part of why we haven't had another child yet. Bedtime is such a nightmare at our house, I can't imagine adding another child to the mix.

It was a slow transition. Actually my son still comes back to our bed half way through the night.

Have you tried making the bedtime routine earlier and longer. I have noticed DS feels more secure in a long bedtime routine. Dinner, play, meds, bath, diaper and jammies, nursing, stories, cuddles and then falling asleep. Although after months I could shorten it up some nights without it throwing him off.