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No choice

Discussion in 'The Junk Drawer' started by Inagony, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Inagony

    Inagony New Member

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    I’m very distraught because I don’t think I’m elected. Everyone is always telling me that anyone can be saved, but how can you reconcile that with these scriptures.

    Romans 9:
    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

    18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory
     
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  2. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    But we shouldn't condemn ourselves should we ? Why seek out scripture that might then ? Instead seek out scripture that assures your position in Christ Jesus. If you have a desire to know God, to accept Jesus then don't convince yourself you are doomed. Because those who are not of the elect have no such desire. If you desire Christ then seek Him, He's waiting.

    Remember that non of us are worthy, it's by the blood of Christ we become approved. Seek Him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you believe in Christ it is because you are one of the elect. And you can verify it by living a holy life.
     
  4. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    People who are not elected hate God or do not care about God, love evil etc.

    People who are not elected do not care about them not being elected.

    I think you are elected, because you are here, talking about it, studying Scriptures, worrying about your salvation. Thats what election produces.
     
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    God indeed has the ultimate call, but He is not so unjust as not to see our desire to reach Him. The verses about Esau hearken back to the nation of Esau that was in the belly of Rebecca, not the person. Esau the person never served Jacob, rather it was the other way around, when Jacob bowed down to Esau as they reunited. It was the nation of Esau that God came to hate, after it had gone apostate.

    Romans 1 details the progression of those whom God gives up on. People turn their back on God, God abandons them to their choices. They still refuse to repent, God allows them to descend further into iniquity. It never is God's desire or intent to damn anyone, they turn their backs on Him and effectively leave Him no choice. If God judged Pharaoh, you can bet the judgment was deserved. As Abraham asserted, the Judge of the whole Earth will do what is right.

    Scripture is clear that the Father desires that NO ONE should perish. And the parable of the prodigal son, Luke 15, makes clear that He waits with open arms even from a distance for the first sign of repentance and return, even in the case of grave sin.

    There is nothing arbitrary or capricious about God's judgments. Scripture is clear that He is NOT a respecter of persons. Strict determinism robs us of the significance of our choices and thus mars the image of God within us that He has created us with. It is a distortion of God's character.
     
  6. musicalpilgrim

    musicalpilgrim pilgrim on the sacred music pathway Supporter Angels Team

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    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that all that believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life
    Now you say thank you Dear Father
     
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  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    There are two points of view that cannot be reconciled.
    One, is our limited view of time.
    Two, is God's unlimited view of the past and future both.

    We all are open to God's forgiveness.
    God knows who will and who will not accept this.
     
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  8. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think it cannot be reconciled?

    Our partial view is simply inferiour to God's complete view. Like a brick in a house is only part of the house.
     
  9. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    God acts justly in God's sovereign choice, since God claims for Godself in Scriptures the freedom both to favor and to harden as God will.

    The principles which God chooses for God's actions must be just even if our human reason should feel they're unjust. God's mercy has its base in God only, in God's mercy; it depends only upon God's will; God need answer to no one outside of Godself; God must render an account only to to Godself; God's obliged to no human.

    The same rule was applied in Moses' case as in that of all other people.

    The application of God’s mercy is dependent solely upon God. And what God thus declares to be good is good.

    Paul rests his case upon two beliefs, namely, that the Scripture from which he quotes is God's Word, and that no God-act can be unjust. Still Paul's not finished. He wants to show also from the case of one that has known God’s wrath that there's only justice in God.

    Pharaoh's example shows the effect of self-hardening. God has mercy's thoughts toward all, God wants the salvation of all. God offers God's mercy to all. God had called even Pharaoh; God sent God's envoys to him, God pleaded with him, God chastised him to lead him to repentance. But the king refused to heed each offer; he turned from God's attempts to direct his feet to peace. So God gave him to his mind; God withdrew God's hand, God's grace, from him. That was the judgment that hardened Pharaoh's heart.
     
  10. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Study His word and follow the Lamb.

    1 Peter 2:20-22

    For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH

    God Bless.
     
  11. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Why do you think these scriptures are saying what you think? Paul is speaking to the Jews of Rome and telling them how God was showing mercy on the Gentiles.
     
  12. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    You've got my vote.
     
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