no big bang .you cant trust science -so trust God

[Alithis]

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/26471651/big-bang-deflated-universe-may-have-had-no-beginning/

so yet again science -which far to many folks swear by . shows it is inconsistent and cannot /should not ever be trusted ..

trust God folks , not mans guessing games

 

[Mia Turner]

By logic, God had to do something in order to create planet Earth, if it wasn't through the process of Big Bang, then it had to be something else. The Big Bang itself though, is just a theory. Theories simply examine what happens and tell us how and why it happens while laws state that something happens. In case of the Big Bang, there are many how(s) and why(s) questions that are yet to be answered, for example, how was all the matter in the universe compressed into a small dot (the singularity)? This is a fun question to ask yourself. Another fun one would be, where did gravity itself come from? And so on... In order to fill those gaps, scientists have to put forth more theories to supplement the current theory of Big Bang so that it becomes enclosed in a bigger picture and deeper understanding of how the universe works and eventually, people would start referring to it as the Big Bang law. Those gaps will never be filled with "God did it" cliche, there's always a rational and scientific explanations for things. (do not take offence)

In Geology, scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics (which natural scientists count as evidence for their Evolution theory; the distribution of species). However, in Geology, there are rocks which exceeds 3.5 billion years in age and they are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are called the "Acasta Gneisses" in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake, we're currently studying about those in class.

 

[Alithis]

By logic, God had to do something in order to create planet Earth, if it wasn't through the process of Big Bang, then it had to be something else. The Big Bang itself though, is just a theory. Theories simply examine what happens and tell us how and why it happens while laws state that something happens. In case of the Big Bang, there are many how(s) and why(s) questions that are yet to be answered, for example, how was all the matter in the universe compressed into a small dot (the singularity)? This is a fun question to ask yourself. Another fun one would be, where did gravity itself come from? And so on... In order to fill those gaps, scientists have to put forth more theories to supplement the current theory of Big Bang so that it becomes enclosed in a bigger picture and deeper understanding of how the universe works and eventually, people would start referring to it as the Big Bang law. Those gaps will never be filled with "God did it" cliche, there's always a rational and scientific explanations for things.

In Geology, scientists have not found a way to determine the exact age of the Earth directly from Earth rocks because Earth's oldest rocks have been recycled and destroyed by the process of plate tectonics (which natural scientists count as evidence for their Evolution theory; the distribution of species). However, in Geology, there are rocks which exceeds 3.5 billion years in age and they are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are called the "Acasta Gneisses" in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake, we're currently studying about those in class.

the age of rocks ... determined only by measuring them against a rock of confirmed age.. that is to say .The way they calibrate the tool to measure the age is done by comparing it to a rock which has a confirmed age .. that calibration is approximately 2000 years old ..everything beyond that is conjecture .. basically, guess work . But few will apply honesty about that .

did you know that Noah knew his grandfather Methuselah.. and Methuselah knew .. walked with and talked with a man named Adam .
did you know Noah's son Shem ...., who was on the Ark with Noah , was still alive , and actually outlived Abraham .they knew one another ... shem also knew his great grandfather Methuselah , who personally knew Adam .

and so any theory man comes up with is flawed ,for Adam told Methuselah who told Noah who told Shem who told Abraham of the creation of the world ..And evolution, is nothing more then a lack of belief and faith in Gods word .. it calls God a liar to his face .

did you know the lord Jesus fed 5000 people by sharing 5 fish and two loaves from a basket ..did he wait 80 million years for the fish to evolve ?no, he spontaneously created them just as his word says and his word is faithful and true .
for with him NOTHING is impossible ..you are either going to believe him ..or you are not .that is for you to decide .
but he says ..his ways are higher and his thoughts greater .he who created time is not bound by it .

He is before it in it and after it ,having no beginning and no end .he say" be " and all things are .
woe to them that put their trust in man .
God is not governed by the laws of his creation for before they were set in place .. HE "IS" .

and he IS LOVE ..
the reason man cannot by carnal understanding fill in the gaps ..is because there are No gaps .. man made them up to exude god .. do you wish to join man in excluding God ? for the moment ,by faith ,we not only include god but exclude ALL but GOD .. there are no gaps .

For in the beginning (the genesis- the beginning of all things pertaining to mankind)God created the heavens and the earth ....
return and read it again.. but this time ..cast of man rebellious reasoning and replace it with child like faith and believe again .

I do and his joy floods me inexpressibly ...he says .. come away with me come away from this world and its darkened heart , come away with me to the secret places to the pools of streams of the waters of life .. for the kingdom of God is within you .
trust in the LORD with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding .

God bless you in Jesus mighty name ,for he is the speaking of the invisible God made manifest to us ... listen to HIM.

 

[aChildOfMary]

It all depends really wether or not you look at scripture as all litteral or if you belive that it contains figurative speech aswell.

I've encountered folks that only believe in the litteral way of reading scripture even though I assume that the litteral view is most frequent in US.

Often this comes of as being wilfully ignoring science and I've seen conflict arise when people cling onto the litteral interpretation despite any intellectual objections.

But then again on the other hand there are also those who are all figurative in their view of the bible.
That at its most extreme often leads to something close to agnosticism.

What strikes me as odd is why the two aren't compatible?
Couldn't God have created the world and man in the order that's written in scripture and using a figurative way of teaching when he say 7 days?

It is also written that 1000 years are like one day in the eyes of God, does this mean that he spent 7000 years creating the world?
I mean no.

Could God have created man in the way evolution describes and still according to the scripture, yes why not?

For instance man got created as the final creature and sience also holds us as being the most developed speeche of all that is.

If one try to make them fit I don't see a problem.
They are in harmony with each other I think.





Pax Christi
aChildOfMary

 

[Jesse2014]

 

[Bramwell]

I don't feel true science and true Christianity need to be at odds with each other. Christianity is all about truth (and love); and true science is all about truth as well. The real issue has to do with separating truth from half-truths and deceptions... which is I guess where contentions lie with evolutionary theory for us as Christians.

Mia wrote:

By logic, God had to do something in order to create planet Earth, if it wasn't through the process of Big Bang, then it had to be something else.

I agree. All else being equal, God could have used something like the Big Bang to create planet Earth. The problem I have with generic "Big Bang theorists" is that they try to use the theory to eliminate God's role in creation. That in itself is quite dishonest.

However, in Geology, there are rocks which exceeds 3.5 billion years in age and they are found on all of Earth's continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are called the "Acasta Gneisses" in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake, we're currently studying about those in class.

Mia, how confident are you that there are rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years? Do you think it's possible that the process for making such a determination is not 100% accurate?

 

[Mia Turner]

@Bramwell, Big Bang Theorists attempt to omit God from the whole event because God Himself is not scientific. Science doesn't affirm of a being that fed 5000 people by sharing 5 fish and two loaves of bread from a basket, a being that walked one water (violates the laws of physics), a person who lived three days in the belly of a whale for being disobedient etc... These aren't scientific at all, you have to draw a line in between. I do believe in the stories of the bible, I believe in Jesus Christ, I am a Christian like yourself

To determine the age of a rock, you'd have to look at any fossils the rock may contain. If any of the fossils are unique to one of the geologic time periods, then the rock was formed during that particular time period. If you want to determine its absolute age, you'd have to measure the amount of certain radioactive elements that are in the rock. Geologists have been able to date rocks tens and hundreds of million years old and have determined that the Earth itself is ~4.6 billion years old. If you choose to believe that the Earth is any younger than that, then you'd be wrong.

Just look up rocks and study a little about them, it's the 21st century, everything is a click away.

 

[BryanW92]

Just look up rocks and study a little about them, it's the 21st century, everything is a click away.

Yes it is. That includes the truth about radioisotope dating. All radioisotope dating can do is to help decide which set of assumptions apply to specific rock.

Fossil records are the same. They make assumptions about what lived when and when you find that thing in a rock, you assume that the rock was from the period of the fossil.

You decide when various creatures lived by finding them in rocks which you have already assumed the age from radioisotope dating.

Can you see the circular set of assumption in play here to create the "science" of things that were never witnessed by man? Observation is the most important part of science and paleontology, archaeology, and paleoanthropology are non-observational sciences. In fact, the things they "observe" do not make sense. How does an dinosaur footprint in mud get preserved for millions of years until the mud becomes rock? Did it never rain again in that spot?

 

[Mia Turner]

The footprints left by dinosaurs along an ancient river or the hollow tubes was created by worms burrowing in soft mud in an ancient ocean. These are called "Trace fossils", they are physical evidence of the life activities of now vanished organisms. They include tracks, trails, burrows, feeding marks, and resting marks. Most trace fossils were formed in soft mud or sand near a pond, lake, river, or beach. The imprints left by the organisms were quickly covered by sediment. The sediment dried and hardened before the imprints could be erased by water or wind. The sediment was then buried under more sediment and became compacted and cemented together to form rock.

If you ever studied about Evolution, you should already be aware of this. There are types of fossils, mold fossils, cast fossils, trace fossils and true form fossils, and there are six ways that organisms can turn into fossils.

 

[1watchman]

The problem (evil) is not science, for such sound work as at the Institute for Creation Research (icr.org) in Texas is very good and godly ---check it out. God speaks of "...science falsely so-called" (1 Tim. 6:20), which we see from the Academy of Science in the USA. It is controlled by Atheists who bar any Christians from membership.

 

[food4thought]

Ahhh... to be young again, when the truth was so clear and unambiguous. Mia, I am sure that you are well read in the scientific literature about these things, but I warn you not to place too much stock in science. What you think is so certain today, will one day seem a fantastical tail when you really let yourself look at all the could have's, might have's, maybe's, and flat out just don't look over here, Ok's? that belief in these theories require.

Just to use the OP's topic: in order to believe today's "scientific" cosmologies such as the Big Bang, you must focus in on one set of observations (red shift, background radiation, etc.), but disregard other observations that tell us that the theory fails to account for the vast majority of energy and matter and cannot account for quantum theory. Really, empirical science is a great tool, but it can only tell us about what we can directly observe and measure. Once you leave empirical science and enter into "historical" science, which seeks to understand what we cannot empirically observe or test, everything hangs upon what assumptions you are willing to accept... and we all know what assumptions do.

Don't disregard all the wonders of science, but for your soul's sake, DO NOT place man's limited ability to accurately use deductive reasoning to understand the limited amount of information we can observe using our limited instruments to make human (and thus potentially flawed) conclusions about the nature of the universe (and sometimes even beyond the visible universe)... do not place THAT on the same level, or anywhere near the same level, as God's revelation to us. Stay humble, girl, and don't embrace too high a view on human ability... that's all I'm trying to say.

May God richly bless you as you humbly seek to understand His creation.

 

[BryanW92]

If you ever studied about Evolution, you should already be aware of this. There are types of fossils, mold fossils, cast fossils, trace fossils and true form fossils, and there are six ways that organisms can turn into fossils.

Actually, I did study it. I have a degree and a lifetime of study and experience.

But think about your sediment theory. It tends to give credence to Catastrophism more than it does Uniformitarianism (which is the rock version of evolution, by the way. Evolution is about living organisms.)

 

[Mia Turner]

Bryan, you have a degree and a lifetime experience yet you didn't know how a dinosaur footprint gets fossilized? I'll unpack my "sediment theory" for you. When an animal dies, its body can be eaten by other animals, it can slowly rot away until nothing is left, or it can be buried by sand or mud. If is buried by mud or sand, its harder parts, generally teeth and bones, may be preserved. As years pass, more mud or sand covers the remains, pressing down with greater and greater pressure. Eventually, the sand and mud changes into rock. Moisture in the rock seeps into the remains, gradually hardening them and turning them into rock too. Bone becomes rock, but rock that appears different from that which surrounds it. This is fact, this is what happens you can test it yourself. The footprints of dinosaurs walking through mud along the shores of ancient waterways have been fossilized.

 

[dabro]

Either way. Let's just agree that Nature didn't create nature and God has always been the maker of everything. I just believe by faith that the world was in it's form a makeup of a divine God. I also believe that when a man dies in their sin they don't go on burning forever but rather down to destruction. Meaning it is as if they never existed. I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing ppl are burning forever but that is how I interpret hellfire and brimstone. But I'm not God either.

 

[Alithis]

It all depends really wether or not you look at scripture as all litteral or if you belive that it contains figurative speech aswell.

I've encountered folks that only believe in the litteral way of reading scripture even though I assume that the litteral view is most frequent in US.

Often this comes of as being wilfully ignoring science and I've seen conflict arise when people cling onto the litteral interpretation despite any intellectual objections.

But then again on the other hand there are also those who are all figurative in their view of the bible.
That at its most extreme often leads to something close to agnosticism.

What strikes me as odd is why the two aren't compatible?
Couldn't God have created the world and man in the order that's written in scripture and using a figurative way of teaching when he say 7 days?

It is also written that 1000 years are like one day in the eyes of God, does this mean that he spent 7000 years creating the world?
I mean no.

Could God have created man in the way evolution describes and still according to the scripture, yes why not?

For instance man got created as the final creature and sience also holds us as being the most developed speeche of all that is.

If one try to make them fit I don't see a problem.
They are in harmony with each other I think.





Pax Christi
aChildOfMary

i have been down these arguments and debates ll to often over the years .the truth is mans reasoning of "how" God does anything are utterly flawed and for the most part bias against God .
could it all be figurative ? NO ..why ,because Adam told Methuselah who told noah who told shem who told Abraham ... its all so simple ..

IF that is .we have faith and BELIEVE God above man.
but science ... cannot ever be trusted it basis all its finding on what is seen .. and what is seen ... is of flesh and blood and not of the Spirit of the Most High God
.
-and there was morning & evening ...the first day .
\ Do not ever imply to me or anyone that God is unable to do what he said he has done .. it is the epitome of unbelief and rebelion..

ouhh they say ..was it really a 24 hour say? ahh we have heard these words before from a serpent .. "did God reeeally say ....?

except you become as little children you cannot see the kingdom of heaven .
some boast on science ..i will boast in the name of the Lord my God

 

[Alithis]

Either way. Let's just agree that Nature didn't create nature and God has always been the maker of everything. I just believe by faith that the world was in it's form a makeup of a divine God. I also believe that when a man dies in their sin they don't go on burning forever but rather down to destruction. Meaning it is as if they never existed. I wouldn't be able to live with myself knowing ppl are burning forever but that is how I interpret hellfire and brimstone. But I'm not God either.

we never advance in relationship with God by disagreeing with him .

 

[Alithis]

Bryan, you have a degree and a lifetime experience yet you didn't know how a dinosaur footprint gets fossilized? I'll unpack my "sediment theory" for you. When an animal dies, its body can be eaten by other animals, it can slowly rot away until nothing is left, or it can be buried by sand or mud. If is buried by mud or sand, its harder parts, generally teeth and bones, may be preserved. As years pass, more mud or sand covers the remains, pressing down with greater and greater pressure. Eventually, the sand and mud changes into rock. Moisture in the rock seeps into the remains, gradually hardening them and turning them into rock too. Bone becomes rock, but rock that appears different from that which surrounds it. This is fact, this is what happens you can test it yourself. The footprints of dinosaurs walking through mud along the shores of ancient waterways have been fossilized.

as have mans footprints inside the dinosaur footprint .. so that's the age thing gone out the window .

 

[dabro]

Are you more superior than him since you love your science more than a relationship with God.

 

[dragongunner]

I don't feel true science and true Christianity need to be at odds with each other. Christianity is all about truth (and love); and true science is all about truth as well. The real issue has to do with separating truth from half-truths and deceptions... which is I guess where contentions lie with evolutionary theory for us as Christians.

Mia wrote:

I agree. All else being equal, God could have used something like the Big Bang to create planet Earth. The problem I have with generic "Big Bang theorists" is that they try to use the theory to eliminate God's role in creation. That in itself is quite dishonest.



Mia, how confident are you that there are rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years? Do you think it's possible that the process for making such a determination is not 100% accurate?

Yes they don't have to be at odds at all, big difference in theories and science. As far as the 7 day, morning and evening I personally don't believe it was absolutely 7 24 hr. days, God created the sun not until the 4th day, that is what gives us our 24 hr. day. But what was a day for God? How long was day before he started creation? I believe the light God created in the beginning was not the sun. Morning and Evening can be interpreted as the beginning and the ending of what God did in His time frame. Personally I don't see a God that lived over 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000……years before he created the world to be in a big hurry to get it all done in just a few hours. So those who believe 7 24 hr. days are actually using their interpretation but its not a open shut case as they would like to believe. God created gravity did He not….so is science wrong about the truth of gravity? What matters is I believe in Christ whether it was 7 24 hr. days or if they were actually longer and different lengths. Doesn't change a thing. I have also hear there our scientists that are Christians too….just saying.

 

[aChildOfMary]

Yes they don't have to be at odds at all, big difference in theories and science. As far as the 7 day, morning and evening I personally don't believe it was absolutely 7 24 hr. days, God created the sun not until the 4th day, that is what gives us our 24 hr. day. But what was a day for God? How long was day before he started creation? I believe the light God created in the beginning was not the sun. Morning and Evening can be interpreted as the beginning and the ending of what God did in His time frame. Personally I don't see a God that lived over 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000……years before he created the world to be in a big hurry to get it all done in just a few hours. So those who believe 7 24 hr. days are actually using their interpretation but its not a open shut case as they would like to believe. God created gravity did He not….so is science wrong about the truth of gravity? What matters is I believe in Christ whether it was 7 24 hr. days or if they were actually longer and different lengths. Doesn't change a thing. I have also hear there our scientists that are Christians too….just saying.

I believe that it's alot of truth in your post.
Thanks for posting