Nice guys, bad boys.. and female attraction..

[MehGuy]

I was going to originally post this in the incel thread in the News And Current Events section, but I believe that thread has been beaten to death by now.

I do find this topic interesting, the concept of women (and sometimes men) being attracted to jerks, and in the more extreme cases just plain violent people. Men like Ted Bundy receiving a lot of love letters from women, and even marrying one while on trial. While he is on the more extreme side, I do view this sort of thing as being on a spectrum. Why is this? How prevalent do you believe this is?

On the flipside I have heard statements from men (and some women) that they find their nice demeanor often bores the opposite sex, and that they feel frustrated by this.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Purity is not lustful. Nice is closer to pure.

 

[Jeff11]

I was going to originally post this in the incel thread in the News And Current Events section, but I believe that thread has been beaten to death by now.

I do find this topic interesting, the concept of women (and sometimes men) being attracted to jerks, and in the more extreme cases just plain violent people. Men like Ted Bundy receiving a lot of love letters from women, and even marrying one while on trial. While he is on the more extreme side, I do view this sort of thing as being on a spectrum. Why is this? How prevalent do you believe this is?

On the flipside I have heard statements from men (and some women) that they find their nice demeanor often bores the opposite sex, and that they feel frustrated by this.

Women are much more shallower than that. You have to actually look at what they do as a post of what they say. If you look at dating app data. They only care about one thing how attractive a man is. And it’s not enough to be attractive you need to be in the top 20% of physical attractiveness. I know other people and studies have claimed that dating app that is not a good representation of actual dating but it is a very popular app. And the reality is unless you’re in the top 20% of men in terms of looks dating apps are a waste of time. You essentially have 80% of women chasing 20% of men on those apps. It’s pretty sad testament to what women value in today’s world

 

[mama2one]

neighbor's daughter has an abusive boyfriend
police have been called multiple times

no idea what she sees in him
not good looking at all & super heavy

3 houses away-when he starts screaming/swearing at her, we hear it even with our doors/windows closed

 

[Sketcher]

neighbor's daughter has an abusive boyfriend
police have been called multiple times

no idea what she sees in him
not good looking at all & super heavy

3 houses away-when he starts screaming/swearing at her, we hear it even with our doors/windows closed

Poor taste and poor judgment.

She should have chose better.

Unfortunately, by the time they actually break up, she's going to try to overcompensate for that brokenness in ways that rightly make her unattractive to self-respecting men who don't wish to treat women the same way.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Based on their choices, women don't usually find weakness in a man titillating. This is borne out anecdotally by the numerous women I've known and their bad boy problems. After all is said and done, they don't want the bad boy, either...just the bodice-ripper fantasy he represented. Too many women these days are ending up like the main character in the Eagles' LYING EYES, stuck and dissatisfied with either road she chooses (the bad boy? or the money?).

 

[bèlla]

I recall reading about Danielle Steele’s relationship with a prisoner and thought it was bizarre. We’ve had the hot felon since that point. Equally strange. I wouldn’t date either.

I like nice men. But it isn’t their defining quality. When describing them to a woman you’d cite other things first. If someone leads with ‘nice guy’ there’s a but or problem following.

~bella

 

[MehGuy]

Poor taste and poor judgment.

She should have chose better.

Unfortunately, by the time they actually break up, she's going to try to overcompensate for that brokenness in ways that rightly make her unattractive to self-respecting men who don't wish to treat women the same way.

Awww.. I actually sympathize with such women.. I think they are suffering from either mental abuse from childhood or masochism. I wouldn't (not saying you would) shun a women who has a problem with seeking abusive partners.. as long as she's willing to be honest with her issues. I'd want her to express her desire for rough men in a more healthy manner.. such as safe, sane and consensual S&M. Although if her desires come from abuse.. I'd be more apt to recommend therapy. The former is probably more due to environment and the latter nature.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I recall reading about Danielle Steele’s relationship with a prisoner and thought it was bizarre. We’ve had the hot felon since that point. Equally strange. I wouldn’t date either.

I like nice men. But it isn’t their defining quality. When describing them to a woman you’d cite other things first. If someone leads with ‘nice guy’ there’s a but or problem following.

~bella

Good example, Jeremy Meeks getting snagged away from his wife and kids by Topshop heiress Chloe Green. We know what he saw in her ($$$ and travel) but what on earth did she see in him???

 

[bèlla]

Good example, Jeremy Meeks getting snagged away from his wife and kids by Topshop heiress Chloe Green. We know what he saw in her ($$$ and travel) but what on earth did she see in him???

A moment of rebellion and “slumming.” It was never going to last. The wealthy may tolerate a felon. But he has to be the right sort. Embezzlement, securities violations, etc. Cash and a short stint (if any).

 

[Sketcher]

Awww.. I actually sympathize with such women.. I think they are suffering from either mental abuse from childhood or masochism. I wouldn't (not saying you would) shun a women who has a problem with seeking abusive partners.. as long as she's willing to be honest with her issues. I'd want her to express her desire for rough men in a more healthy manner.. such as safe, sane and consensual S&M. Although if her desires come from abuse.. I'd be more apt to recommend therapy. The former is probably more due to environment and the latter nature.

There are the women that learn, and the women that don't. Both are prone to repulse me in different ways.

The women that don't learn find something about these abusive guys irresistible, perhaps abuse has been normalized for her and she doesn't feel emotionally secure without at least something questionable coming from her man on the regular. Or perhaps she just finds a guy who isn't abusive boring. Either way, these are the women who only date abusive guys, or who will leave non-abusive guys for abusive guys. Not worth my time.

The women that do learn will often overreact. They might have been giving before, but they got hurt, so they adopt this attitude of being demanding instead. I don't like their attitude and their selfishness, even if it's scabbing over a genuine wound.

 

[hedrick]

A web search turned up this article. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/head-games/201305/the-allure-aggressive-men

The OP sounds really unenlightened, but there may be some evidence for it.

But see also https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent

 

[MehGuy]

There are the women that learn, and the women that don't. Both are prone to repulse me in different ways.

The women that don't learn find something about these abusive guys irresistible, perhaps abuse has been normalized for her and she doesn't feel emotionally secure without at least something questionable coming from her man on the regular. Or perhaps she just finds a guy who isn't abusive boring. Either way, these are the women who only date abusive guys, or who will leave non-abusive guys for abusive guys. Not worth my time.

The women that do learn will often overreact. They might have been giving before, but they got hurt, so they adopt this attitude of being demanding instead. I don't like their attitude and their selfishness, even if it's scabbing over a genuine wound.

Interesting..

Yeah, a man isn't obligated to help a mentally troubled (nature or nurture) woman out. As a society we tell men that women are not obligated to help our problems so real equality shouldn't expect men to have this obligation. Just personally.. if I feel she's suffering from masochism and picking wrong partners because of it.. I'd be compelled to help her out. There is a limit.. and if she starts adopting entitled feminist attitudes.. I'd probably bail on her.. but yeah.

 

[hedrick]

Interesting..

Yeah, a man isn't obligated to help a mentally troubled (nature or nurture) woman out. As a society we tell men that women are not obligated to help our problems so real equality shouldn't expect men to have this obligation. Just personally.. if I feel she's suffering from masochism and picking wrong partners because of it.. I'd be compelled to help her out. There is a limit.. and if she starts adopting entitled feminist attitudes.. I'd probably bail on her.. but yeah.

I think we’re obligated to help someone out of abusive situation if they want out. If they don’t, it seems to be a matter of degree. It becomes more difficult if there are children.

 

[MehGuy]

I think we’re obligated to help someone out of abusive situation if they want out. If they don’t, it seems to be a matter of degree. It becomes more difficult if there are children.

As long as you're consistent.. I'm speaking more of how actual equality would be under the current circumstances.

 

[Sketcher]

I think we’re obligated to help someone out of abusive situation if they want out.

Not in a dating context, we're not.

 

[MehGuy]

A web search turned up this article. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/head-games/201305/the-allure-aggressive-men

Interesting. Makes me wonder what I often see played out in the dating world. Single mothers who have probably mated with more aggressive men hoping to find a date with a more docile yet economically successful man to help raise her children with her.

"I've had enough of the bad boys.. it's time I settle down with a more responsible man.". Lol.

 

[MehGuy]

Women are much more shallower than that. You have to actually look at what they do as a post of what they say. If you look at dating app data. They only care about one thing how attractive a man is. And it’s not enough to be attractive you need to be in the top 20% of physical attractiveness. I know other people and studies have claimed that dating app that is not a good representation of actual dating but it is a very popular app. And the reality is unless you’re in the top 20% of men in terms of looks dating apps are a waste of time. You essentially have 80% of women chasing 20% of men on those apps. It’s pretty sad testament to what women value in today’s world

I would argue this 80% of men being below average is an understandable consequence of men being more picky about looks compared to women. Neoteny is a very important feature of human evolution, and neotenic traits are more heavily selected by men in women compared to the other way around.

In light of this the okcupid study makes sense. Men have more of an average bell curve in attraction compared to women precisely because men have historically been more concerned with women's looks. The consequence being that the physical attributes men like from women are thus more frequent in the gene pool compared to the physical attributes women like being less frequent in the gene pool.

Although my mother always told me an amusing thought.. she said "women are much more attractive compared to men during their early 20s.. but by the time both sexes enter their 40s.. men are much more attractive."

I would like to see how this okcupid study fares with different age ranges.

 

[MehGuy]

The most severe case probably being east Asians. They are arguably the most neotenous race.. their men especially probably focused more on looks compared to other races. The sexual dimorphism of the men and women are very low compared to other races, and this leans more to the feminine side. East Asian men often suffer in the dating market, and while I would have to relook at the statistics I believe east Asian women have one of the higher rates of cross racial dating.

 

[muichimotsu]

I was going to originally post this in the incel thread in the News And Current Events section, but I believe that thread has been beaten to death by now.

I do find this topic interesting, the concept of women (and sometimes men) being attracted to jerks, and in the more extreme cases just plain violent people. Men like Ted Bundy receiving a lot of love letters from women, and even marrying one while on trial. While he is on the more extreme side, I do view this sort of thing as being on a spectrum. Why is this? How prevalent do you believe this is?

On the flipside I have heard statements from men (and some women) that they find their nice demeanor often bores the opposite sex, and that they feel frustrated by this.

The problem tends to be in general that people will gravitate to a type of person that fits what they want in a relationship, but they also don't necessarily realize what they really need: stability, vulnerability, etc.

Some people realize this problem and find an excellent partner: my ex only dated me a bit, then went through several other bad relationships and now is happily married with a kid that's probably about 1 year old now. And they didn't rush into that either, she's got a good head on her shoulders.

Part of the issue might've been her parents' divorce, but that's mere correlation on my part