Nice guy synodrome?

[Macrina]

There's a difference between confidence and acting like a jerk. Most people would find someone who appears confident and witty at least initially attractive. But most people would find someone who acts cocky and rude and does things like point out flaws (as described earlier in the thread) to be unattractive and more than likely absolutely repulsive. Confidence and niceness are not mutually exclusive. Nice guys can be/act confident and be nice at the same time. The important thing with confidence is not to overdo it or mix in a lot of cockiness and arrogance because that is when a person will end up coming across as a self-centered rude jerk.

TOTALLY agree with you there. Confidence is good, because it shows that a man is comfortable with who he is. True confidence *can* be a sign of maturity, which is a very good thing! Cockiness, on the other hand, is more a sign of immaturity and insecurity.

I think a good guideline, for girls and guys, is to ask -- Am I respecting the other person and building him/her up? Am I treating him/her as a sibling in Christ? A cocky person will tear down another; being confident means that you are comfortable enough in your own skin to be able to encourage and strengthen someone else.

It is possible to mistake one for the other initially, but in my experience, time will tell which it is. And I'm confident enough in myself not to waste my energy dating someone so insecure that he has to tear me down in order to feel good about himself.

 

[boilerblues]

I read this the other day, I don't remember everything that has been written but I'll share some of my thoughts.

I've found that I tend to be one of the "nice" guys. I seem to attract attention from the desperate women, but the stable ones think I'm a great friend, and nothing more. This has been more than a little frustrating for me, but I'm learning.

I think there's two parts to it. I do think women tend to want someone exciting. Maybe not every woman wants the bad boy, but I think women tend to look for something that makes the guy exciting. Maybe he's just really witty, maybe he's into extreme sports, maybe there's a bit of rebel in there. I'm the living epitome of Charlie Brown, I haven't been able to do much to attract the attention of the cute little red headed girl.

But I also think that women want a man who is confident in who he is. Many nice guys are full of fear, intimidated by women, or they're just push overs. I think women want a man who respects them, but also protects them. There's still the longing for the knight in shining armor in there. They want a nice guy, but they want a man. This is where I tend to get in trouble, around the women that I'm not concerned about whether they are interested in me I tend to be fairly comfortable and confident. If I have an interest in someone I'm much more self conscious. I'm working on that.

Now this is just me thinking out loud, but maybe there's an unsaid communication that happens between men and women. Maybe in a relationship between a man and a woman there has to come a point where the man expresses confidence in such a way that attracts her attention. As she begins to give attention to the man he notices that (maybe not in an obvious way) and he responds to that with a greater confidence. The man's confidence has to come first from God, but it also grows at it's nutured by affirmation from the woman. I don't know if that makes any sense at all.

About 4 years ago I really hit it off well with a gal, it brought out a new me that I'd never known before. Even good friends said I was a new person and it was good. She liked who I was and I liked who I was, I felt like it was ok to be me. It turned out she was just toying with me, it ripped my heart out. I haven't seen that person I was for that short time since then, I've caught glimpses here and there, but he hasn't fully reappearted. My confidence in the Lord has been growing a great deal and there's a new man in me starting to appear. I like who I'm becoming, but there's much need for growth still. In relation to women I'm growing too, but I think my heart is still wounded enough that I'm looking to see if it's safe to open up. I'm becoming more accepting of who I am, but am still unsure if any ladies are accepting of who I really am (the deperate ones don't count).

I don't know if any of that made any sense at all, I had a long phone conversation in the middle of writing it. Men don't need to be macho, but they do need to be men. Not all women look for the bad boys, but there's a desire for a real man, not a push over.

 

[Wheezy]

Well, I'm new. So I'm a little late in stumbling across this thread. I can't add too much that's new, but nevertheless: No! Nice guys don't finish last. At least they don't in my book (not that I've ever had a date with a guy, nice or not ). Unfortunately, there are a lot of women out there (and men!) who get a kick out of playing the game. I have quite a few friends who are sweeeeeet girls, but are just tweaked enough (mostly because of parent-daughter relationships) to be in the market for the mind-game-playing-bad-boys. Even they sit up and take notice of a nice guy - they just don't have the common sense and maturity to cultivate a relationship with him, I guess.

Anyway. Fight on! - Wheezy

P.S. I live in California and have to ask - do nice guys even exist?

 

[wildthing]

Sorry i am a bit of a "bad boy" at times. Been working on my tude.

 

[carmi]

sorry - had to retrieve/delete my post

 

[Wheezy]

Whoops! Guess I didn't phrase that right, Carmi! Thanks for pointing that out. I guess I just meant that I wonder if nice guys exist (or are maybe just a rare breed? ). Anyway - I added my state because I thought maybe the rarity of nice guys is relative to my location. Whatever - anyway, thanks!

God bless and fight on -- Wheezy

 

[stillerfan]

i hear that there are alot of nice guys in pittsburgh, pa area...

edit: ok, that didn't look right after i posted it... what i meant to say is i am one of those nice guys that is dying to have someone that won't cheat, lie, or take me to court for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time...

oh yeah, supportive (but not intrusive) parents help as well...

 

[Crispie]

Hmmm, people try to complicate things so much. What ever happened to a simple pure and honost relationship.

 

[lunalinda]

We should define terms here. If 'nice' is to mean wimpy, then I would imagine this is a turn off for women. No woman wants a man that is so nice, he refuses to stand up for himself, refuses to offend people (that should be rightly offended by truth), that has no back bone. But if by 'nice' we mean he is kindhearted when he should be and fierce when he needs to be, then I would imagine that women are more attracted to this.

Christ wasn't a nice guy. No one hates or wants to kill nice guys. Jesus was kind and loving to those that needed it and was fierce and relentless with those that deserved it.

I AGREE! I LOVE nice guys, but not guys who are sooo incredibly nice that he's just a push-over. I mean geeze, personally speaking, I've got a lot of spunk, flare, and can be brat sometimes, and I'd want a guy to be a brat right back! Don't be like, "Oh okay Linda, whatever you say." But even if it's a spat with someone else, it's a turn-off and unattractive if a guy is so nice and can't stand up for himself, or even me. If a guy's too nice and too sweet, then I would then feel like I'd have to change who I am just to accomodate to him. Tone myself down, so to speak. But that's who I am. Great Christ example, btw.

As for me, I do really like nice guys, who are defined as such by being the latter part of your definition. Cockiness I hate, and even SOME parts of confidence I hate. What I mean by that is: if a guy is so confident that he thinks he's going to get his way all the time, he'd be sorely mistaken, especially when it comes to girls like me. I can't stand when a guy can be so confident in himself and his tactics that to him it's practically inevitable that he's going to win me over. That more relates to guys who are used to getting what they want simply because they never give up. That's all fine and dandy, but I'm not a THING. I'm a person. But if a guy has a good way of carrying himself, a good confidence in just being himself, and not expect me to become a slave of sorts to his "charms" or whatever, then it's very very cool.

Niceness is definitely where it's at. A nice guy who knows how to be tough if a situation calls for it, and SWEET if the situation calls for it is wonderful. Even tough guys can be attractive to me, but ONLY if the have a niceness. A tough guy whose "soft spot" is being nice and sweet to his woman can be just as attractive as a nice guy who knows how to be "tough" for his woman. I don't even know if I'm making sense lol. It's 3:25 in the morning; gimme a break!

 

[Macrina]

I've found that I tend to be one of the "nice" guys. I seem to attract attention from the desperate women, but the stable ones think I'm a great friend, and nothing more. This has been more than a little frustrating for me, but I'm learning.

This may have been your experience, but don't give up -- because I don't think that's the way it always is. I know for my part, when I was a teenager and maybe more in the unstable category, the "bad boys" appealed to me more. In fact, a good "nice guy" friend of mine was interested, and I wish I had realized it at the time. He would have been good for me. But as I have grown and matured, those bad boys have lost their appeal. The nice guys, by which I mean the ones that have respectful confidence, sensitivity, depth, and integrity -- those are the ones that interest me now. I have grown to a place where I feel good about myself and where my life is, regardless of whether or not I am with someone... and that makes me want to look deeper at a man's character, not just the persona he projects.

I think there's two parts to it. I do think women tend to want someone exciting. Maybe not every woman wants the bad boy, but I think women tend to look for something that makes the guy exciting. Maybe he's just really witty, maybe he's into extreme sports, maybe there's a bit of rebel in there. I'm the living epitome of Charlie Brown, I haven't been able to do much to attract the attention of the cute little red headed girl.

It is good that you realize that things other than the "bad boy" syndrome can be exciting. Yes, I think women (and maybe men, too?) want to be with someone who intrigues them, excites them, or challenges them. But for me, those factors are not rebelliousness or whatever, but might be things like creativity, spiritual passion, intelligence. Personally, I think that sincerety is rare enough to be downright exciting!

But I also think that women want a man who is confident in who he is. Many nice guys are full of fear, intimidated by women, or they're just push overs. I think women want a man who respects them, but also protects them. There's still the longing for the knight in shining armor in there. They want a nice guy, but they want a man. This is where I tend to get in trouble, around the women that I'm not concerned about whether they are interested in me I tend to be fairly comfortable and confident. If I have an interest in someone I'm much more self conscious. I'm working on that.

There is some truth here. I confess that although I am a modern girl and among the first to reject 1950s stereotypes of womanhood, the idea of a knight still appeals. I want someone who recognizes that I can stand on my own two feet, and then rushes in and sweeps me off of them.

 

[GodBlessedSinner]

My Theory:

Girls that are not in God's word and are of the world, confuse confidence with the selfish traits of "bad boys".

Confidence is a big thing to a lot of women, most often they don't find a confident, kind and courteous gentleman but rather a man who has confidence-like traits of selfishness, arrogance and temper. this is a fine line of knowing what he wants, confident in his abilities and stands strong in his beliefs.

I think you need to put yourself in the right places (get involved with your church) and you'll find a lady that does not confuse confidence with a "bad boy." A woman who sees with God's wisdom who the man really is.

 

[gvsuman]

Thank you soo much ladies! you just gave this 'nice guy' alot of hope in finding a sweet female in the future. I honestly had no idea how many girls think highly of the nice guys. I suppose that I've only been around the girls who like mind games or 'bad boys'.

 

[OhhJim]

It's not a good idea to generalize, and say that you should treat all women a certain way. For one thing, you aren't looking for a random woman. I'm also assuming you aren't looking, for instance, for a married, 68-year-old Hindu chicken farmer in Uzbekistan. You are looking for a single, available, smart, interesting, woman of a certain age, who is a Christian, isn't a princess, yada, yada, fill in the blanks.

THOSE women probably have more in common than a cross-section of the female gender at large. DeAngelo might not be looking for the same type of woman. I've found that treating a woman well, giving compliments, being a gentleman, etc. doesn't work well with really hot, popular women. They get a lot of this, so I'm not distinguishing myself from the unwashed masses. If I give her a compliment, she puts it on the pile with all the others. With these women, finding fault is probably more productive, because you stand out from the crowd.

Now I'm going to make a generalization, and probably get in trouble for it: If a woman likes you, she is going to like you. It doesn't matter if you are a gentleman or not, a jerk or not, treat her well or not. I've seen this happen so often. I've seen it happen to teenagers, and to 50-year-olds. I've seen it happen to dumb women, smart women, beautiful women, ugly women, and everyone in between. The only ones who are somewhat immune are the ones with very high self-esteem.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[carmi]

My Theory:

Girls that are not in God's word and are of the world, confuse confidence with the selfish traits of "bad boys".

Confidence is a big thing to a lot of women, most often they don't find a confident, kind and courteous gentleman but rather a man who has confidence-like traits of selfishness, arrogance and temper. this is a fine line of knowing what he wants, confident in his abilities and stands strong in his beliefs.

I think you need to put yourself in the right places (get involved with your church) and you'll find a lady that does not confuse confidence with a "bad boy." A woman who sees with God's wisdom who the man really is.

And there, right there in your last sentence you do say it: "who the man REALLY is" - not how he appears to be (selfish, arrogance and with a temper).

And ... one can also see through a nice appearance. Yup.

The nice guy who is all gentleman and takes great pain and effort to be kind and nice on a date but expects "a little somethin' in return" ... and, this might shock you (I know it did shock me back then), a man you meet in church (fully trained in the gospel with years in the ministry and as a sunday school teacher) might drive you home (and be kind and nice to make a detour to safe you a bus drive 'cause that's dangerous and he is so considerate ... and nice), then one evening after leaving the bible study group he ambushes you in the elevator.

I am not implying a person is deliberately lying when they say they are nice ... but I think sometimes it is helpful to ask others: how do I come off? how do I appear to you?

 

[carmi]

Now I'm going to make a generalization, and probably get in trouble for it: If a woman likes you, she is going to like you. It doesn't matter if you are a gentleman or not, a jerk or not, treat her well or not. I've seen this happen so often. I've seen it happen to teenagers, and to 50-year-olds. I've seen it happen to dumb women, smart women, beautiful women, ugly women, and everyone in between. The only ones who are somewhat immune are the ones with very high self-esteem.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Well, you said "somewhat immune" - so I have nothing to disagree with.

 

[boilerblues]

Despite some of my frustrations, I'm a nice guy and I'm sticking with it. I know the right lady will appreciate it. That will also tell me a great deal about her character, and I'm not settling for less than the best.

 

[JPPT1974]

It's hard to find nice gentlemen these days. As well as also not just finding a good-looking man on the outside but handsome "on the inside". Either they were brought up that way by their parents is a good guess of mine.

 

[SuperTech]

Now I'm going to make a generalization, and probably get in trouble for it: If a woman likes you, she is going to like you. It doesn't matter if you are a gentleman or not, a jerk or not, treat her well or not. I've seen this happen so often. I've seen it happen to teenagers, and to 50-year-olds. I've seen it happen to dumb women, smart women, beautiful women, ugly women, and everyone in between. The only ones who are somewhat immune are the ones with very high self-esteem..

DeAngelo calls this theory "attraction is not a choice". Nothing you can do will change that fact he says. If someone is not attracted to you nothing you do will change that fact. I watched more days of his lecture that I got from a buddy and I have to say that the guy is pretty smart, although I don't agree with everything he says or his approach. His theories are all based on humanistic theory and conjecture so you have to take some of what he says with a grain of salt.

I'm a nice guy, but not in a whimpy way! As you talk to women, however, they always seem to be with the bad boys or people who treat them like dirt. Very puzzling.

Good feedback guys! Nice guys still rule!

 

[Fatolia]

Hmmm....this makes me wonder. Someone above alluded to the "environment" one is in to facilitate finding these male/female friends. I was in a great environment recently at a campus church and (by God's blessing) found quite a few FANTASTIC single women, but just because they are fantastic and available, does that mean I should view them that way? I think someone said in all caps in another post: "I'm not a THING!" The whole thing is attitude; you set your attitude Godly, seeing other people as friends rather than mates and you will run into people who have the same attitude. And start praying too that you'll develop some awesome relationships with the opposite gender...that stuff really works.

 

[bethanyellen]

I personally do not like it one bit when a guy plays games with your head. Why don't you just get straight to the point let someone know what is really going on in your head? It would probably be wise to go slow and just let the person your intrested in that you are intrested in them. That way you still leave them wanting more and letting them know instead of leaving them guessing!