Debi, Debi.... please.. no one is attacking you everyone has said they aren't mad at you in the first place. You're getting way too upset over nothing.
Michelle
Michelle
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geocajun said:That makes 2 posts now which someone possibly hinted at the Sympto-Thermal method of NFP not being natural... is this some sort of common thought?
That seems absurd to me on many levels. I'll wait for validation of my concern before defending my position that sympto-thermal is perfectly licit.
wow! I havent been privy to those sort of arguments... I guess I am missing out!ShannonMcMorland said:There is sadly, much debate and animosity at times between adherents to particular methods of NFP-- I just feel like it is best for a couple to find a method that best suits them, and their needs... as different methods have different strenghths and weaknesses....
grammer
wow! I havent been privy to those sort of arguments... I guess I am missing out!
That is bizarre considering there are relatively so few folks who actually use NFP - we could all join a club
It was meant as a joke-- since you were begging us to not focus on such things... forgive me!! I'm one of those people who think puns are like the highest form of comedy!!geocajun said:how embarassing to misspell the word "grammar"
I think I want to learn more about the billings method myself. Shannon pointed me to it the other day, but I haven't had time to investigate it.Shelb5 said:geo,
To me the sympto method is the most effective one out there because it gives you all the back ups but I can't use it because there is no way I could get the sleep that is needed to take a proper temp. reading. I like the Billings method, it is way easy.
its a cervix-only method from what I understand. The women, or husbandproud2bcatholic said:I haven't heard of the Creighton method, what is that exactly?
NFP and barrier methods of ABC have the same failure rate in practice (11-15%). If a couple using a barrier method of ABC has the same open mind as to the possibility as an NFP couple, why is ABC intrincially evil ?Shelb5 said:You are mentally open to the possibility if it does happen, if it happens it is Gods will in your heart and mind. Those who contracept are not open and are doing it this just so it wont happen. If it happens to them, they will probably feel that NFP failed or that the world will soon come to a end because their pregnant.
No.geocajun said:well lets try to contrast it - maybe that will help.
In judging the moral quality of any act, we must determe the object, intention, and circumstance.
In order the any act to be a morally good act, it must have been a good object, and good intention.
The object of sex has two aspects to it - that of unity and that of procreation.
If either of these aspects is not there, then the object is bad.
If someone rapes another, the sexual aspect of procreation may be present, but the aspect of unity is not, thus regardless of intention, the object is in itself bad.
If someone has sex but has used a contraceptive, the sexual aspect of unity may be there, however the sexual aspect of procreation is not, thus regardless of intention, the object is in itself bad.
If someone has sex, and has not taken any step to block the unity or the procreative aspect, then we can begin to look at the intention for moral quality.
If the intention now is that of removing the procreative aspect, or the unitive aspect, then we have a bad intention, thus the act is still a bad act.
Again, in order to be a good act, the object and intention must be good.
Did that help?
Cosmic Charlie said:NFP and barrier methods of ABC have the same failure rate in practice (11-15%). If a couple using a barrier method of ABC has the same open mind as to the possibility as an NFP couple, why is ABC intrincially evil ?
Cosmic Charlie said:No.
Look, I understand intentionality. What I don't understand is how NFP gets NRPers around intentionity. Thats why I ask, exactly how, what are the operational aspects of NFP, that allow you to intentionally step around the reproductive aspect of sex without breaking the rules. And, specifically, why do those rules apply only to NFPers.
Like I've said before, it seems to me (by Humane Vitae) that a barrer is a barrier: latex, chemical, timing, they're all the same. I know NFP CAN be use as a contraceptive, what I can't figure out is how it can be used an NOT be a contraceptive.
Follow ?
But, by using NFP as intented you ARE removing the reproductive aspects of it by avoiding sex during fertile times of the month so how is NFP moral ?Shelb5 said:Very easy reason, because God made the act not to be altered or compromised physically by removing any aspect from it, this is what condoms do. Like I said already we are talking about two separate issues here. Condoms are wrong for a different reason even if you are open to life.
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