New Statement of Purpose for the forum

[Ave Maria]

I just skimmed over it and I think I like it.

 

[Lion King]

I think the part about "dead guys" is kinda silly

Me too.

I guess Peter would be in trouble on this forum today. I mean, he actually referred to David as DEAD.

Men and brothers, let me freely speak to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us to this day. Acts 2:29

Let's just call it what it is, and stop with all this PC "non-sense".

 

[Thekla]

Christ conquered death; those who are absent from the body are present with the Lord (Paul), who is the author and bestower of life (both zoe and bios).

How can one be present with He who is Life, and be dead ?

The Scriptures delineate between life and life; zoe, the more 'important' is the spiritual life, and bios the physical life.

In this sense, the body dies, the bios ends, yet the zoe in Christ continues.

Thus, the Saints that are 'dead' are not dead; though the bios has ended, the zoe in Christ continues.

"And they that seek the Lord shall praise Him; their hearts shall live forever."

"... you have come (present tense) to the Heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."

 

[Lion King]

they are DEAD.

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. Hebrews 11:5-13

 

[Thekla]

they are DEAD.

By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. Hebrews 11:5-13

It might be helpful to look into the terminology of the NT, the particular Greek words for life, and the particular terminology for death.

My Lord has conquered death; those who are with He who is the author of life are not dead.



Christ is risen +

 

[Lion King]

It might be helpful to look into the terminology of the NT, the particular Greek words for life, and the particular terminology for death.

My Lord has conquered death; those who are with He who is the author of life are not dead.



Christ is risen +

Yes, Christ is risen, but David and rest of the righteous are DEAD in Christ. They will be raised again when Christ returns.

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16

 

[Lion King]

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” Mark 12:25-27

I take it Christ would also be in trouble for calling the dead, "DEAD"? Calling dead people dead is not derogatory, it's what they are...they are dead! C'mon, since when has it been offensive to refer to the dead as dead? I believe this is just PC gone too far..

 

[Thekla]

Yes, Christ is risen, but David and rest of the righteous are DEAD in Christ. They will be raised again when Christ returns.

For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16

And this refers to the body, not the zoe.

However, this matter should not be discussed in this thread, as this thread has a different purpose.

 

[Lion King]

To the OP of this thread:

Why can't I refer to the dead as DEAD?

 

[A New Dawn]

Nobody said that you can't say that they're dead, we are saying don't use derogatory statements when referring to them.

 

[Rhamiel]

Nobody said that you can't say that they're dead, we are saying don't use derogatory statements when referring to them.

like an example would be
"why do you care what a bunch of dead guys think?"
or something along those lines

 

[Lion King]

Nobody said that you can't say that they're dead, we are saying don't use derogatory statements when referring to them.

Like saying "dead people/guys"?

 

[Lion King]

like an example would be
"why do you care what a bunch of dead guys think?"
or something along those lines

What's offensive about that statement exactly? I mean, are they not dead?

I'm sorry, but I do not get it.

 

[A New Dawn]

What's offensive about that statement exactly? I mean, are they not dead?

I'm sorry, but I do not get it.

If you had read what I said in the Statement of Purpose, you'd understand that the goal is to make this forum less hostile. When someone believes that the spirits of the saints are in heaven interceding for us, and that the early church fathers understood what the apostles taught better than we do because they were right there with them, calling them a bunch of "old dead guys" is offensive. It would be the same if someone said something mocking about what you believe. It isn't necessary to proper discussion to talk in that manner. You are free to state your belief in a non-mocking way.

I'm sorry that you do not get it.

 

[Lion King]

If you had read what I said in the Statement of Purpose, you'd understand that the goal is to make this forum less hostile. When someone believes that the spirits of the saints are in heaven interceding for us, and that the early church fathers understood what the apostles taught better than we do because they were right there with them, calling them a bunch of "old dead guys" is offensive. It would be the same if someone said something mocking about what you believe. It isn't necessary to proper discussion to talk in that manner. You are free to state your belief in a non-mocking way.

I'm sorry that you do not get it.

So, can I still refer to these early-church guys (can't say fathers..they ain't my fathers) as dead? Yes or No?

For example:

-Can I say that consulting the dead on behalf of the living is prohibited by God? Or that talking to dead people is evil?

 

[A New Dawn]

So, can I still refer to these early-church guys (can't say fathers..they ain't my fathers) as dead? Yes or No?

For example:

-Can I say that consulting the dead on behalf of the living is prohibited by God? Or that talking to dead people is evil?

You could probably say some variation of the first one, and use a scripture verse to back it up, but the second one would be baiting.

 

[Lion King]

You could probably say some variation of the first one, and use a scripture verse to back it up, but the second one would be baiting.

Baiting? How? Didn't the LORD say talking to dead guys is evil? Yes or No?

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 18:10-13

I take it bringing that passage is illegal on this forum now?

 

[A New Dawn]

Baiting? How? Didn't the LORD say talking to dead guys is evil? Yes or No?

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 18:10-13

I take it bringing that passage is illegal on this forum now?

No, it is not illegal to use that scripture on the forum, but it is only your opinion that asking the saints to intercede for us is a form of witchcraft or sorcery. And I might remind you of the rules that says that you cannot state or imply that someone who self-identifies as a Christian isn't. Using that verse in that manner does imply just that.

 

[Lion King]

No, it is not illegal to use that scripture on the forum, but it is only your opinion that asking the saints to intercede for us is a form of witchcraft or sorcery. And I might remind you of the rules that says that you cannot state or imply that someone who self-identifies as a Christian isn't. Using that verse in that manner does imply just that.

I never implied that anyone is a witch, nor have I accused anyone of being one by bringing that passage up. All I have stated is what God says Himself:

When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Isaiah 8:19

Why can I not say that consulting dead guys is evil anymore, when God said so Himself? Just because it is offensive to some does not mean that you have to sacrifice the TRUTH, for the sake of unity. Calling homosexuality a "sin" is offensive to some here, should we also stop saying such words?

 

[Thekla]

John teaches us "test the spirits", not "have a testy spirit".