New--SDA General Conference Statement on EGW writings

[tall73]

Not really. I am just correcting misinformation with scripture (Romans 3:4)

Of course really. You say you only discuss Scripture and you and your denomination talk about Ellen White all the time.

Your statements here ARE the misinformation.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Not really. As posted earlier I am just correcting misinformation with scripture (Romans 3:4) See also post # 118 linked. Your post here is unresponsive to the post and scriptures you are quoting from that are in disagreement with you.

Your response here...

Of course really. You say you only discuss Scripture and you and your denomination talk about Ellen White all the time. Your statements here ARE the misinformation.

No not at all. Scripture is not misinformation. Scripture is the standard of what is true and what is not true *Romans 3:4; and what we are sanctified by *John 17:17 through God's Spirit *John 6:63 as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. I love Gods' Word (excuse the pun).

Take Care

 

[tall73]

Scripture is not misinformation.

I never said Scripture was misinformation. I said your statements are the misinformation here. You are not God. Your words are not Scripture.

You said you don't care to talk about Ellen White and you only talk about Scripture. But then you of course talk about Ellen White, and defend your denominational statements about Ellen White continually. And you said you read Ellen White to see what she says about Scripture.

Scripture is the standard of what truth is

Yes. Which is precisely why the Adventist church should just read Scripture instead of reading it through the lens of Ellen White as a "guide".

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I never said Scripture was misinformation. I said your statements are the misinformation here. You are not God. Your words are not Scripture.

You said you don't care to talk about Ellen White and you only talk about Scripture. But then you of course talk about Ellen White, and defend your denominational statements about Ellen White continually. And you said you read Ellen White to see what she says about Scripture.





Yes. Which is precisely why the Adventist church should just read Scripture instead of reading it through the lens of Ellen White as a "guide".

Well isn't this an amazing thing. Here I am an SDA and here you are a non-SDA who was once SDA that has departed the SDA Church. All I want to do is to discuss the scriptures. I provide scriptures from *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 *Joel 2:28-32 in regards to Gods' gift of prophecy to God's last day Church and you call this misinformation. Here you are and all you want to do is not discuss scripture but talk EGW and not scripture? Perhaps our time would be better off discussing the scriptures don't you think? Anyhow no point in continuing this. Perhaps it's just best we agree to disagree. I believe I have shared scripture all through this thread so anyone can see who is talking scripture and who is not. I will leave you with the last say as I think you need it more than I do. I have enjoyed our discussion.

Take care Tall.

 

[tall73]

Well isn't this an amazing thing. Here I am an SDA and here you are a non-SDA who was once SDA that has departed the SDA Church. All I want to do is to discuss the scriptures. Here you are and all you want to do is not discuss scripture but talk EGW? Perhaps you should be spending more of your time in the scriptures?

Oh it is amazing alright. Your church, the SDA church, keeps putting out statements about Ellen White. But you, though an SDA, claim that all you want to do is talk about Scriptures. You claim you don't want to talk about Ellen White. But ......just like your denomination, you keep talking about Ellen White. And defending Ellen White.

If anyone wonders whether Adventists only want to talk about Scripture, and don't want to talk about Ellen White, there is an easy way to find out. Go to the Traditional Adventist Forum here on CF and do a forum search for the words "Ellen White." Anyone who does will find many references to Ellen White.

And of course we talk about Ellen White as Non-Adventists. Because your own statements show that you don't regard Scripture only, but in fact read Scripture through the "guide" of Ellen White's writings.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Hi I am just wondering, you call yourself a (SEA) Seventh-day Evangelical Adventist. Is that even a thing or a Church? What actually is that as I have never heard of it before? Just curious

that is off topic, so I will leave you to wonder

 

[Adventist Dissident]

There was no circular reasoning only reasonable reasoning supported by the scriptures shared with you. All you have provide in response is you quoting you in disagreement with the scriptures shared with you without showing why you are in disagreement so we will of course agree to disagree. Of course as posted earlier, it all depends on if you believe the scriptures teach that prophets are to give God's inspired Words or not and that God has given us prophets for His last day Church as shown in *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 which is one of the signs of Gods' last day Church. For me personally I believe the scriptures.

Conditional prediction just like those in the bible

This is an invention by those who don't want to accept the fact that her predictions failed. This is a common practice in the Prophetic movement, among those claiming prophetic authority. They make a prediction when it fails, they either claim that the conditions where not met or they blame the people. It is gaslighting. They deny reality of what has happened and instead of just admitting they were wrong double down on their mistake.

Where? Let's examine the contexts

i already did, so I won't discuss it with you, I don't need anyone to hold my hand I am perfectly able to weigh the evidence out on my own without anyone's help.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is n invention by those who don't want to accept the fact that her predictions failed. This is a common practice in the Prophetic movement, among those claiming prophetic authority. They make a prediction when it fails, they either claim that the conditions where not met or they blame the people. It is gaslighting. They deny reality of what has happened and instead of just admitting they were wrong double down on their mistake.Where? Let's examine the contexts i already did, so I won't discuss it with you, I don't need anyone to hold my hand I am perfectly able to weigh the evidence out on my own without you.

Let's talk scripture. In the King James, the Hebrew word “niphal” is translated “repent” 38 times. The majority of these instances refer to God's repentance, not man's . . . Unlike man, who under the conviction of sin feels genuine remorse and sorrow, God is free from sin. Yet the Scriptures inform us that God repents (Genesis 1:1; Exodus 32:14; Judges 2:18; 1 Samuel 15:11), i.e., he relents or changes his dealings with men according to his sovereign purposes. On the surface, such language seems inconsistent, if not contradictory, with certain passages which affirm God's immutability . . . i.e., 1 Samuel 15:11, 29; Psalm 110:4.

When (repent) is used of God, however, the expression is anthropopathic and there is not ultimate tension. From man's limited, earthly, finite perspective it only appears that God's purposes have changed. Thus the OT states that God "repented" of the judgments or "evil" which he had planned to carry out. (1 Chronicles 21:15; Jeremiah 18:8; 26:3,19; Amos 7:3,6; Jonah 3:10). This certainly is a striking reminder that from God's perspective, most prophecy (excluding messianic predictions) are conditional upon the response of men.

So in short how God treats us is conditional on (1), what we know in regards to Gods' revealed will and (2), if we believe and follow what His revealed will is. This conditional response by God to His people is seen in the scriptures in the blessings for obeying God's Word (Deuteronomy 28:1-14) and curses for disobedience to Gods' Word (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). Likewise in the scriptures, there is conditional and unconditional prophecies. Conditional prophecy is when the prophecy fulfillment is dependent on the compliance of those to whom the promise is made, with the conditions on which it is given. Where as unconditional prophecies are not dependent on any conditions whatsoever. For example...

Unconditional Prophecies (just a few shown here)

(1). Jesus first coming - Genesis 3:15. No matter what humans do, Jesus was to come on the world and He is to return. There is no question or debating if this will happen or no. It will happen.

(2). Jesus second coming. I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:3). No matter what humans do, Jesus was to come on the world and He is to return. There is no question or debating if this will happen or no. It will happen.

(3). The world ruling Empires from Babylon, Medes and Persia, Greece and Rome - Daniel 7, Danial 8.​

Conditional Prophecies (just a few shown here)

(1). God giving rain in due season; Leviticus 26:3-4 if ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; then I will give you rain in due season and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield her fruit. God giving rain to the land of Israel depended on the children of Israel walking in God statues and keeping His commandments. Thus, if the children of Israel walked in God statues and kept his commandments, it rained in due season but if they did not…. But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant; I also will do this unto you: I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart; and ye shall sow your seed in vain; for your enemies shall eat it (Leviticus 26 14-16)

(2). Healing of the land - 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land

(3). Jonah prophecy - Jonah prophecy was a conditional prophecy. Jonah 3:2-4: Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. When the city of Nineveh repented, God repented His judgment. Jonah 3:5, 10: So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.​

....................

Now please tell me, since what Jonah prophesied did not occur, is Jonah a false prophet or not? Please forgive me but your position does not line up with the scriptures as shown above which is why I do not believe you.

Take Care.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

i already did, so I won't discuss it with you, I don't need anyone to hold my hand I am perfectly able to weigh the evidence out on my own without you.

Let's talk scripture. In the King James, the Hebrew word “niphal” is translated “repent” 38 times. The majority of these instances refer to God's repentance, not man's . . . Unlike man, who under the conviction of sin feels genuine remorse and sorrow, God is free from sin. Yet the Scriptures inform us that God repents (Genesis 1:1; Exodus 32:14; Judges 2:18; 1 Samuel 15:11), i.e., he relents or changes his dealings with men according to his sovereign purposes. On the surface, such language seems inconsistent, if not contradictory, with certain passages which affirm God's immutability . . . i.e., 1 Samuel 15:11, 29; Psalm 110:4.

When (repent) is used of God, however, the expression is anthropopathic and there is not ultimate tension. From man's limited, earthly, finite perspective it only appears that God's purposes have changed. Thus the OT states that God "repented" of the judgments or "evil" which he had planned to carry out. (1 Chronicles 21:15; Jeremiah 18:8; 26:3,19; Amos 7:3,6; Jonah 3:10). This certainly is a striking reminder that from God's perspective, most prophecy (excluding messianic predictions) are conditional upon the response of men.

So in short how God treats us is conditional on (1), what we know in regards to Gods' revealed will and (2), if we believe and follow what His revealed will is. This conditional response by God to His people is seen in the scriptures in the blessings for obeying God's Word (Deuteronomy 28:1-14) and curses for disobedience to Gods' Word (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). Likewise in the scriptures, there is conditional and unconditional prophecies. Conditional prophecy is when the prophecy fulfillment is dependent on the compliance of those to whom the promise is made, with the conditions on which it is given. Where as unconditional prophecies are not dependent on any conditions whatsoever. For example...

Unconditional Prophecies (just a few shown here)

(1). Jesus first coming - Genesis 3:15. No matter what humans do, Jesus was to come on the world and He is to return. There is no question or debating if this will happen or no. It will happen.

(2). Jesus second coming. I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:3). No matter what humans do, Jesus was to come on the world and He is to return. There is no question or debating if this will happen or no. It will happen.

(3). The world ruling Empires from Babylon, Medes and Persia, Greece and Rome - Daniel 7, Danial 8.​

Conditional Prophecies (just a few shown here)

(1). God giving rain in due season; Leviticus 26:3-4 if ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; then I will give you rain in due season and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield her fruit. God giving rain to the land of Israel depended on the children of Israel walking in God statues and keeping His commandments. Thus, if the children of Israel walked in God statues and kept his commandments, it rained in due season but if they did not…. But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant; I also will do this unto you: I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart; and ye shall sow your seed in vain; for your enemies shall eat it (Leviticus 26 14-16)

(2). Healing of the land - 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land

(3). Jonah prophecy - Jonah prophecy was a conditional prophecy. Jonah 3:2-4: Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days’ journey. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. When the city of Nineveh repented, God repented His judgment. Jonah 3:5, 10: So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. And God saw their works that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.​

Now please tell me, since what Jonah prophesied did not occur, is Jonah a false prophet or not? Please forgive me but your position does not line up with the scriptures as shown above which is why I do not believe you.

Take Care.[/QUOTE]
None of this is relevant to the topic of EGW's Authority. it is a red herrring. the condition of Jonah are not the same as what Ellen said. She said people would be alive to see Jesus return and they all died. No condition placed on that prophecy. Sorry. The Bible is very clear "if a prophet make a prediction and it does not come true, you are to put that person to death, because they are not a prophet.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

None of this is relevant to the topic of EGW's Authority. it is a red herrring. the condition of Jonah are not the same as what Ellen said. She said people would be alive to see Jesus return and they all died. No condition placed on that prophecy. Sorry. The Bible is very clear "if a prophet make a prediction and it does not come true, you are to put that person to death, because they are not a prophet.

It's actually hard to follow your post as you have got my large post mixed up into your post but I pulled out your comment mixed into mine above. Of course it is relevant. You made claims to prophecies not being fulfilled but did not understand the difference between conditional and unconditional prophecy as demonstrated from the scriptures in post # 149 linked.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

It's actually hard to follow your post as you have got my large post mixed up into your post but I pulled out your comment mixed into mine above. Of course it is relevant. You made claims to prophecies not being fulfilled but did not understand the difference between conditional and unconditional prophecy as demonstrated from the scriptures in post # 149 linked.

I did not make the claim. it is a matter of historical record. you go find if you want to know. it is a well know event. I won't do your work. you need to educate yourself in SDA history. Take a break from posting and go and read a few of the publications from the Denomination.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I did not make the claim. it is a matter of historical record. you go find if you want to know. it is a well know event. I won't do your work. you need to educate yourself in SDA history. Take a break from posting and go and read a few of the publications from the Denomination.

Well that is not true. I can send you a link to your own post if you like. Maybe you forgot what you posted earlier. I did not ask you to do any work for me. I have gone the extra mile for you and posted scripture as a help to the discussion. They are Gods' Words not mine.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

This is new to me. Where can I go to learn more?

observe her writings. 2/3 were written in the life of James White. get a set of the testimonies mark they year 1881 when James White died and count how many were written in his life time. just that simple. Kellogg who lived with the Whites claimed that James forced her to do his bidding by issuing the testimonies. the evidence seems to support that.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Well that is not true. I can send you a link to your own post if you like. Maybe you forgot what you posted earlier. I did not ask you to do any work for me. I have gone the extra mile for you and posted scripture as a help to the discussion. They are Gods' Words not mine.

you are tying to argue that I made up the claim, I did not. I repeated the claim. you can do an internet search if you want clarification. that is not hard. I spent 8 years in active study on these matters. I don't wish to rehash them with you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

you are tying to argue that I made up the claim, I did not. I repeated the claim. you can do an internet search if you want clarification. that is not hard. I spent 8 years in active study on these matters. I don't wish to rehash them with you.

Well that is amazing, you spent 8 years studying these things but have no evidence to support your view which is in contradiction to the scriptural view of conditional and unconditional prophecy as shown in post # 149 linked that you do not want to discuss with me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

observe her writings. 2/3 were written in the life of James White. get a set of the testimonies mark they year 1881 when James White died and count how many were written in his life time. just that simple. Kellogg who lived with the Whites claimed that James forced her to do his bidding by issuing the testimonies. the evidence seems to support that.

Which means you have no evidence to support your claims do you that...

it originated in the mind of her husband. He took complete advantage of Her gift or ability or claim. 2/3 or the Testimonies where written in his life time. When he died, they Holy spirit just went away.

Not factual.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Anyhow, that is enough for me. I prefer the scriptures but it does not seem anyone wants to discuss them here. So I guess it is time for me to bow out and say it was nice talking to you all. I hope only the best for everyone here. Even if we need to agree to disagree with the claims that have been made here, I have enjoyed sharing Gods' Word with you.

Unsubscribed from this thread and all the misinformation here.

Take Care all

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Well that is amazing, you spent 8 years studying these things but have no evidence to support your view which is in contradiction to the scriptural view of conditional and unconditional prophecy as shown in post # 149 linked that you do not want to discuss with me.

i won't discuss with you these issues.

 

[Leaf473]

This comment by her might help:


Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet and they have asked, Why is this?

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger; that he called me in my youth to be his messenger, to receive his word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be his messenger. "Your work," he instructed me, "is to bear my word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make my Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and my power shall be with you.

"Be not afraid of man, for my shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil."

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {RH, July 26, 1906}

Well now, that's interesting. What, in her mind, was the difference between a prophet and a messenger of God?

 

[Freth]

I've unsubscribed from the thread. God bless!