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New--SDA General Conference Statement on EGW writings

HIM

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The biggest issue is attributing Rev 12:17,19:10 just to her. Rather Popish really.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
 
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HIM

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The Holy Spirit is God. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. We are the Temple of God, the habitation of His Spirit. Now we shine or are suppose to shine with the glory of God
 
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Freth

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I don't consider the Spirit of Prophecy to just apply to Ellen G. White, and I don't know of anyone who does make that distinction.
 
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HIM

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The thing that some Adventist fail to understand is if something or someone is inspired by God it is the same as scripture and should be held to the same regard.

Others regardless of any General Conference session do see the truth in the above statement.

And let’s not forget how fallible we can be. So with that in mind does it mean when one is inspired they always are?

I believe she was a prophet. But Was Mrs. White always writing and speaking through the Spirit. To think she was infallible is rather pope-ish I think.
 
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HIM

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I don't consider the Spirit of Prophecy to just apply to Ellen G. White, and I don't know of anyone who does make that distinction.
Hi Freth happy Sabbath.

Really? Start teaching that we are ALL to be prophets through the testimony, the faith of Jesus and then get back to me.
 
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Freth

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Hi Freth happy Sabbath.

Really? Start teaching that we are ALL to be prophets through the testimony, the faith of Jesus and then get back to me.

Happy Sabbath!
 
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Leaf473

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You answered your own question.
Okay... That sounds like you believe White's writings were inspired by God.

Next question:
Why do they use the past tense "were"? Did something change?

Timothy says "is". Is the difference important?
 
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tall73

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And just as before, I already posted the Fundamental belief statement in the thread, in this case in post 4.

And no, it does not answer all the questions. In fact, it raises another question when compared to these other statements.


Let's follow that through....

- The fundamental indicates that the Bible is what tests everything.

- So then as you read Ellen White you test everything she says by the Bible

- Then you find some possible "discrepancy" (hypothetically).

- Now how do you test Ellen White's writings by the Bible if Ellen White's writings correct inaccurate interpretations of the Scriptures, are an inspired guide to Bible passages?

Or to put it a different way, how is everything tested by the Bible if Ellen White corrects inaccurate INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible?

Saying the Scriptures are the test doesn't make sense if you say the thing you are testing--Ellen White's Writings--correct inaccurate interpretations of the testing tool!

Now if you simply said that the Scriptures are the test, and we consistently find that Ellen White meets that, and consider her inspired, OK. That makes sense. And then people can see if they feel she meets the test as well. And if she does, they may benefit from her writings, but always testing by Scripture. That would be testing all things by Scripture.

But you can't then say she corrects readings of the testing tool, because then her correct readings are the true test.

For instance, here is a record of a discussion of Adventist scholars and administrators discussing whether the year-day principle is a biblical teaching at Glacierview.

The conversation itself is interesting, and I think there are times the year day principle is used, but I agree that Dan. 9 is using the sabbatical years system. But in this case I am noting how they reference Ellen White when discussing whether something is a biblical teaching.

Full text of "Raymond F. Cottrell, The Sanctuary Review Committee and its New Consensus (1980)"

JEAN ZURCHER (secretary, Euro-Africa Division): We cannot prove it from Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6. We need another principle. I believe the year-day principle is based on the sabbatical year and the jubilee system. (He presented evidence for the jubilee system as a basis for the principle.)

JOHN W. FOWLER (president, Ohio Conference): The jubilee system in addition to Numbers and Ezekiel.

HARDER: We will have to recognize that the day-year principle does not apply in Daniel 9.

COX: I do not use Numbers and Ezekiel at all. But it is a biblical principle; I just say, "A day symbolizes a year," and let it go at that. Let us not use specious arguments when it is not necessary to do so.

HARDER: Ezekiel does not satisfy me at all. We need to provide something that we can rely on.

BRADFORD: We are saying that the day-year principle is valid .


MILLS: Are we to tell our people that we have been wrong? Doesn't Sister White use this argument?

FRANZ: It is a biblical datum.

ALALADE: There is no problem in recognizing that we have been wrong. We believe in progressive revelation, and that implies progressive understanding, does it not?

WOOD: Ellen White speaks of an "unfolding." The word "progressive" has evolutionary connotations. This church has a lot to lose by being iconoclastic with the pioneers. We should build on, and enrich, their insights.

STRAND: I am with Jim Cox on shabu'ah ("weeks" or "sevens" of years).

COX: Why should we insist on using arguments that are weak?

STRAND: Our consensus, then, is "yes,"but that we need to base it on better reasons
than we have in the past.

DUFFY: We should not use negative expressions in our report.

STRAND: The crucial issue is how Ellen White used these texts (Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6) . God always communicates with His people in terms of their own time.


If the Bible is the test of all doctrine, then why does Strand say the crucial issue is how Ellen White used certain Bible texts? Why does Mills note that Ellen White used the argument, in a discussion about whether it is a biblical teaching?

 
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tall73

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Well of course these statements say they don't replace Scripture! They say that her writings are an inspired guide to Scripture, and correct inaccurate interpretations of it. You can't do that if they replace Scripture.

You do get what that means right?

Ellen White is seen as the accurate reading of Scripture, and corrects inaccurate interpretations.

So what is the test? Well, whether your reading of the Bible agrees with Ellen White! Look at the post above to Freth and you will see some Adventists applying that test.
 
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Leaf473

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The Holy Spirit is God. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. We are the Temple of God, the habitation of His Spirit. Now we shine or are suppose to shine with the glory of God
That sounds like you believe her writings were inspired by God.
That sounds like her writings were sometimes inspired by God.

Do you agree with the new statement? If so, how do writings that are only sometimes inspired correct inaccurate interpretations derived from human reason?
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan

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The GC is not backing away from it's claim of EGW's authority.

I don't know of a "EGW authority" statement.

God is the one who has authority.

Was Mrs. White always writing and speaking through the Spirit.

Good point. There is nothing at all in the SDA beliefs saying "everything Ellen White said at the breakfast table - came directly from God".

We see in the case of Nathan the prophet - that some advice he gave to David did not come "directly from God" and in fact was not correct. But when he was called upon to respond as a prophet of God - and then said something that was not correct - God corrected him and he had to go to David that next day and admit it.

The Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy is not that humans are all-wise or humans-are-infallible - it is that God-is and He is fully capable of communicating accurately and efficiently any message He wants to convey to the church.
 
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tall73

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Agreed ... once you accept the NT statement on spiritual gifts for the church in 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 .. the rest is not surprising at all.

I am sure it does not surprise you Bob.

However, I think it might surprise some non-Adventists to see Adventist theologians and administrators indicating that whether Ellen White used an argument determines whether it is a Biblical teaching, as quoted earlier. The highlights on that point:

Full text of "Raymond F. Cottrell, The Sanctuary Review Committee and its New Consensus (1980)"

MILLS: Are we to tell our people that we have been wrong? Doesn't Sister White use this argument?

STRAND: The crucial issue is how Ellen White used these texts (Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6) .


That doesn't match up well with the Scriptures being the test.

And here is another example where the then General Conference President Wilson asked Ford to accept correction on the sanctuary doctrine by considering Ellen White a doctrinal authority.

Events since Glacier View

Pastor Wilson commented that Dr. Ford did not appear really to accept this philosophy, that he required evidence before changing an opinion, and has set up his own criteria of what is acceptable evidence criteria that exclude the writings of Ellen G. White as being doctrinally authoritative.
 
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tall73

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And let’s not forget how fallible we can be. So with that in mind does it mean when one is inspired they always are?

I believe she was a prophet. But Was Mrs. White always writing and speaking through the Spirit.

No, she did not indicate her every word was inspired.

But there are times when common things must be stated, common thoughts must occupy the mind, common letters must be written and information given that has passed from one to another of the workers. Such words, such information, are not given under the special inspiration of the Spirit of God. Questions are asked at times that are not upon religious subjects at all, and these questions must be answered. We converse about houses and lands, trades to be made, and locations for our institutions, their advantages and disadvantages. 1 SM 39.3


However, she made rather broad claims about her writings:

"In these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}


You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me.
{5T 67.2}
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Mute point. No one attributes the Spirit of Prophecy only to EGW and no one has ever made that claim. Though the fact still remains that Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 19:10 show that God's true Church of the last days have the Spirit of Prophecy and the true faith of Jesus. That is they have the gift of Prophecy and believe and follow what Gods' Word says.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Once again a mute point. The Apostles Peter wrote scripture (1 Peter, 2 Peter), had visions and dream (Acts of the Apostles 10:1-48) yet scripture shows that at times in His life he made poor decisions in denying Christ (Luke 22:54-62), made poor decisions with the Jewish believers that Paul says was wrong about eating with gentile believers (Galatians 2:11-14). Just because someone has a gift of prophecy does not make them infallible and no one has ever claimed that EGW was infallible. Perhaps you believe things about the SDA Church that no one believes.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The GC is not backing away from it's claim of EGW's authority. it fact they just voted in a local office that is specifically to promote EGW writings in the local church.
Be careful everyone the SDA Church claims to have the gift of Prophecy that the bible talks about in *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 which is one of the signs of Gods' last day Church.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your response here...
I do not think you get what it means to be honest with you. Inspiration supporting scripture is not inspiration changing scripture.
 
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tall73

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Your response here...

I do not think you get what it means to be honest. Inspiration supporting scripture is not inspiration changing scripture.

I think I get what the statements mean. And I think Adventists do too. Which is why we see the statements above from Glacierview where Adventist scholars and administrators ask how Ellen White referred to something when judging whether it is a biblical teaching.
 
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