New Reading and Math Scores: Still Low... but Why?

[Stephen3141]

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/29/nx-s1-5270880/math-reading-covid-naep

Reading and math skills K8 students has (sorta) come back to pre-pandemic
levels.

BUT, given the billions of dollars that the government has poured into American
schools, the response is NOT great. And educators are trying to figure out why
American kids are doing poorly.

One problem: many kids NEVER RETURNED TO SCHOOL in person, after the
pandemic.

One Observation: Poor students do MUCH worse than rich students.

One Observation not made in the article, is that the huge drop in language
skills correlates with the number of hours that a kid spends on social media
and streaming entertainment each day, on their cell phone.
---------- ----------

REGARDLESS of all the BullSpeak by politicians about making America great
again, THIS HAS GOT TO START WITH A RADICALLY TOUGHER SCHOOL
CURRICULUM IN K12. And THAT, does not correlate with the "Christian
nationalism" that is popular among some Republicans.

I assert that America ought to...

1 Give K12 students 1 hour of math homework a day (not weekends)
2 Give K12 students 1 hour of language skills homework a day (not weekends)
3 Force students to show up in person, in classes, to get credit for a course.

America's K12 educational system is a disgrace.

And, promoting conspiracy theories of why this may be, will not fix it.

 

[Laodicean60]

REGARDLESS of all the BullSpeak by politicians about making America great
again,

I was enjoying you right up until you went tribal. I too believe we need to do better (STEM especially) and it all has to do with household culture, we should copy the Asian culture.

The reading score might be skewed downward because of the amount of non-English speaking students in school.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Learning takes place by classroom instruction, not by homework. No one ever learned something from doing a worksheet at the kitchen table in the absence of instruction.

 

[Laodicean60]

Learning takes place by classroom instruction, not by homework. No one ever learned something from doing a worksheet at the kitchen table in the absence of instruction.

And this is the parent's job to help with homework.

 

[seeking.IAM]

And this is the parent's job to help with homework.

All well and good if you were lucky enough to get a parent that (a) does this (b) isn't at work (c) isn't impaired, (d) remembers how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide fractions, (e) can spell, etc. Statistically, half of parents are below average in intelligence.

 

[Laodicean60]

All well and good if you were lucky enough to get a parent that (a) does this

I understand there is bad parenting just look at society.

(b) isn't at work (c) isn't impaired,

This isn't the majority, is it?

(d) remembers how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide fractions,

I remember having problems with Algebra and I asked my Japanese mom for help. She had to learn Algebra first while I went to watch TV and once she figured it out she taught me.

I'd say that with today's internet and videos, there is no excuse because when I went back to college after a layoff for biomedical equipment repair I had to use Khan Academy on YouTube to get me through Algebra.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I'd say that with today's internet and videos, there is no excuse because when I went back to college after a layoff for biomedical equipment repair I had to use Khan Academy on YouTube to get me through Algebra.

That is a great alternative. If you have computer. And can afford the internet.

 

[Laodicean60]

That is a great alternative. If you have computer. And can afford the internet.

But if you look at NPR charts it seems we did better without technology distracting us. What percentage do you find fall into this category of not having technology?

I'm sure school hours haven't changed so why the decline if we are to get all our teaching from the classroom?

Learning takes place by classroom instruction, not by homework. No one ever learned something from doing a worksheet at the kitchen table in the absence of instruction.

 

[Unqualified]

Because learning is made better through the love of God and through the Bible.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I wonder how the results would be if we let teachers teach without focus on teaching to the test to secure funding?

 

[Stephen3141]

Learning takes place by classroom instruction, not by homework. No one ever learned something from doing a worksheet at the kitchen table in the absence of instruction.

I think that a lot of self-taught Americans, would disagree.

Reading, can be enlightening.
Well written homework instructions, can be as good as a classroom experience.

It's impossible to have kids do an hour of reasing a day, in the classroom.

I think that a lot of the objections that learning must take place in the
classroom, are made by people who do not have their kids do a couple
hours of reading a day, instead of being on social media or streaming
videos.

 

[seeking.IAM]

My sister who is a teacher holds the philosophy that if kids don't learn what she teaches in class, they are not going to be able to do the work at home which only leads to their frustration, tears, control battles w/ parents, etc. If they haven't learned it class, they are only practicing doing it wrong at home.

If they have learned it in class, they aren't going to learn it more by doing it again at home.

An interesting philosophy that has worked for her.

 

[Stephen3141]

I welcome the discussion.

(I bring up this topic, BECAUSE advanced language skills and advanced
math skills are needed for a kid to have the opportunity to go on to
work a skilled job, that will give him/her financial security. There are
exceptions, but they are growing fewer and fewer.)

I bring up the topic, BECAUSE (I think) there are multiple factors that
funnel into the problem of low language and math scores. And I don't
think that North American Christians are dealing honestly with all these
contributing factors. For example...

1 There is a correlation (heavy) between the "electronic screen generations", and
the generations with plunging language skills. This starts with the millenials.

2 Although many American Christian parents deny that the skills of their
children, are going down, it is obvious from highly educated immigrants,
that a LOT of American kids can't compete at the level of the best of the
rest of the world. Instead of denying this, Christian parents should accept it,
and start to work on the problem.

3 The "family culture" that a kid grows up in, has a HUGE impact on the
potential of the kids, growing up in that culture. This is POLITELY referred
to as "capital" by those who are politically correct, and do not want to
come out and say that a family's home culture is often DYSFUNCTIONAL.

Americans, both CHRISTIAN and NON-CHRISTIAN, must recognize that
characteristics of a family's "home culture" is not sacrosanct, IF it is
dysfunctional. There are a lot of subcultures in America that need to be
changed, for the better. This would involve UNDOING the myths that all
cultures and subcultures are of equal value, and should be respected.
(Christians should NEVER believe this, but some still do.)

This would mean, for example, that the Department of Education should
engage in public advertizing that points out positive aspects of a home
culture, AND negative aspects. This is generally, not what America thinks
of, when it thinks of phrases such as "civil rights", or "equal opportunity",
or the accessibility of a good public education.

On the Christian side of the invisible fence, this means that anti-intellectual
Christian groups should be dealt with directly, as having a dysfunctional
characteristic, with regard to the development of a kid's intellectual life.
The language of the Christian nationalists, often pander to "Christian value"
rhetoric, but without the intellectual standards that would prepare a kid
to live in the advancing technological American economy.

4 The convergence of electronic screen poverty (with regard to many
positive skills and values), mythical entitlement beliefs, the almost total
lack of teaching about philosophical primitives (including Epistemology),
and the increasing lack of personal discipline or a sense that individuals
OUGHT to be improving themselves, is leading to more and more young
people being unprepared to hold down skilled jobs, and an increasing
sense among young people that the world is unfair, and oppressing them.
---------- ----------

(5 I have not even addressed the emergence of much more flexible and
smarter AI tools, that WILL REPLACE SOME HUMAN MUNDANE JOBS.)
THIS TREND WILL INCREASE.

Right now, a lot of Christian kids CANNOT COMPETE in language and math
skills, on a level that will lead to a well paying and secure job path.

Instead of grabbing for comforting conspiracy theories that supposedly
explain this failure, American parents need to think about radically
CHANGING their home culture, to cut out the electronic screens,
foster aggressive reading, and the gaining of thinking skills that will
make it much more possible for their kids to get a good job.

I have very little sympathy for electronic screen parents, who, apparently,
are unconscious that previous generations did not spend 2-3 hours a
day, streaming entertainment, or talking with "remote" friends. There
are real problems with the acienvement levels in America, among
Christian kids, and these deficiencies need to be addressed.

 

[Job 33:6]

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/29/nx-s1-5270880/math-reading-covid-naep

Reading and math skills K8 students has (sorta) come back to pre-pandemic
levels.

BUT, given the billions of dollars that the government has poured into American
schools, the response is NOT great. And educators are trying to figure out why
American kids are doing poorly.

One problem: many kids NEVER RETURNED TO SCHOOL in person, after the
pandemic.

One Observation: Poor students do MUCH worse than rich students.

One Observation not made in the article, is that the huge drop in language
skills correlates with the number of hours that a kid spends on social media
and streaming entertainment each day, on their cell phone.
---------- ----------

REGARDLESS of all the BullSpeak by politicians about making America great
again, THIS HAS GOT TO START WITH A RADICALLY TOUGHER SCHOOL
CURRICULUM IN K12. And THAT, does not correlate with the "Christian
nationalism" that is popular among some Republicans.

I assert that America ought to...

1 Give K12 students 1 hour of math homework a day (not weekends)
2 Give K12 students 1 hour of language skills homework a day (not weekends)
3 Force students to show up in person, in classes, to get credit for a course.

America's K12 educational system is a disgrace.

And, promoting conspiracy theories of why this may be, will not fix it.

Schools receive significant funding from their tax base. This of course is an issue in areas of poverty.

If the teachers aren't paid well, you'll have high turn over, low quality teachers.

In some nations of the best education in the world, students will have the same teachers year after year, building strong bonds with students. That's not the case in America where students rotate through teachers each year.

Parent involvement is critical. Oftentimes Chinese and Indian immigrant students out-perform American students simply because their cultural ethic is different. Education is held as more of a priority. Whereas in America, most people look down on American schools and are more worried about transgender books in the library than they are about the quality of teaching.

The current president wants to cut funding for vocational programs, helping student that need it the most. Whereas European countries have strong vocational programs.

Among other things.

 

[John G.]

The reading score might be skewed downward because of the amount of non-English speaking students in school.

Use number when referring to something that's countable.

 

[Stephen3141]

Schools receive significant funding from their tax base. This of course is an issue in areas of poverty.

If the teachers aren't paid well, you'll have high turn over, low quality teachers.

In some nations of the best education in the world, students will have the same teachers year after year, building strong bonds with students. That's not the case in America where students rotate through teachers each year.

Parent involvement is critical. Oftentimes Chinese and Indian immigrant students out-perform American students simply because their cultural ethic is different. Education is held as more of a priority. Whereas in America, most people look down on American schools and are more worried about transgender books in the library than they are about the quality of teaching.

The current president wants to cut funding for vocational programs, helping student that need it the most. Whereas European countries have strong vocational programs.

Among other things.

I agree.

But, Americans have GOT TO recognize that whatever the public school system (K8)
is doing, is NOT WORKING for most students, to produce students competent in
English skills and math skills.

It is time, in America, for citizens to recognize that parents who do not value
a rigorous education for their children, are promoting a DYSFUNCTIONAL home
culture, and bear moral-ethical responsibility for this.

Just as parents who tolerate illegal drug use and addiction by their children, SO TOO
parents who tolerate the functional illiteracy of their children, OUGHT TO BE
HELD ACCOUNTABLE for this dysfunctional home culture. This is not a question
of whether or not parents volunteer to get involved with the education of their
kids. Functional illiteracy, is an intellectual DYSFUNCTION, and should be identified
and treated as a DYSFUNCTION. No one should be protecting this dysfunction, behind
the curtain of religious freedom, or the freedom of parents to raise their kids however
they want to.

 

[Stephen3141]

https://apnews.com/article/math-reading-school-district-test-scores-f110ef05fb62f673530f44b120863bec

Educators are starting to look at more informative surveys, of school districts,
as to the level of reading skills, and the rates of improvement or NOT.

In general, wealthy districts are rebounding from pre-pandemic low performance
in reading, faster than poor school districts.

But, *** school districts who spent extra monies on buildings, etc. did not have
the same rate of increasing skills, as those which spent extra monies in hiring
tutors to help students who were not doing well.

ALSO, districts that spent extra monies on mental health counseling, were not
rebounding as fast as districts that spent extra monies on tutors.

No mention was made about different ways of dealing with the cell phone
cultures.

---------- ----------

I SUSPECT, that it is far too POLITICALLY INCORRECT (to use a bastardized
term) to openly do surveys metering how the fastest improving disctricts
deal with the electronic screen generations' dependance on the myths of
ENTITLEMENT and the need to develop a strong ATTENTION SPAN.

There was the mention that it seemed to help to continually tell students
"You can do this!". Of course, encouraging students, is not new, and should
always be done.

 

[Stephen3141]

Elon Musk’s Team Decimates Education Department Arm That Tracks National School Performance

The Trump administration canceled $900 million in contracts overseen by the Institute of Education Sciences, which partners with scientists and education companies to compile and make public data about schools each year.

www.propublica.org

Note that although the curricula of schools in different states, are determined
by the STATES, Trump's government efficiency moves are trying to get rid of
the FEDERAL agency that meters school performance ACROSS ALL STATES.

This is a job, that individual states, are not going to do.

Individual states need to be held accountable, for how their students are
doing.