New question.

[Caty]

okay, if we are not supposed to take scriptures out of context and read the bible as a whole. then how can we take scriptures like, "any who come may drink" or "whoever comes to me will not be cast out." those are taken out of content when compared to people who think they have committed the unforgiveable sin, right? because they are not talkign about the unforgiveable sin.

Im also confused about this, the Bible says All sins are forgiveabel to those who believe in Jesus or to those who come to God. but when the unforgiveable sin is thrown into there, then doesnt it become "All sins are forgiveable--except..." and that doesnt make sense because if all sins are forgiveable---they are forgiveable. but if they arent then why not just say. Most sins are forgiveable or some are...I feel bad for questioning His word but I dont understand this.

 

[seajoy]

The only unforgivable sin is unbelief. That's the sin against the Holy Spirit. We know you don't have that because you care. Those folks don't care.

Remember to let the thoughts come and don't counter them....just go on with your day and don't look back. Then you will start to get better. It takes time - but it works. Why not start today?

Have a blessed New Year.

 

[Caty]

because not everyone who has these are ocd. and i kow i have ocd but im afraid that if i dont worry or think about the thoughts then ill be sinning and i have done that before an it did work, i had less to no thoughts but my thoughts were not as bad then. but Jesus said whoever speaks a word...

 

[BlessEwe]

Jesus didn't say who ever speaks a word. He walked this earth and understands our human weaknesses as He saw His own disciplines struggle with faith and trust. He understands us, and came to show us love and have the faith of a child. You asked Christ into your heart, there is nothing you can do to break Him away from you. Have peace now, and trust that He loves you. Ask Christ to show you the true love He really wants to show you. I have had moments of the most awesome love and peace. I know for a fact this is what it will feel like in heaven 24/7. He doesn't want you to always be so concerned with everything you say or do..(Actually the Holy spirit discerns us when we are straying in the wrong direction) so then we move back towards Christ and let it go. We are Gods children, and He knows your yesterdays, today's, and tomorrow's. He is not out to get you for every thing you do, He loves you very much.

 

[Caty]

Well I must have not really been saved because if the Holy Spirit was supposed to keep me from saying (things in my head---or maybe outloud I can never remember) then He must not be with me. & yes, Jesus said whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will go to Hell.

 

[seajoy]

Well I must have not really been saved because if the Holy Spirit was supposed to keep me from saying (things in my head---or maybe outloud I can never remember) then He must not be with me. & yes, Jesus said whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will go to Hell.

Your OCD brain is making things up in your head. In order to get better, one must start to help ones self. Tell the thoughts "so what" and go on with your day. You are giving your thoughts way too much credit. Thoughts are just that - thoughts. They can do no harm.

Those of us with OCD....our filters don't work right. Other folks have goofy thoughts all the time, they just don't get stuck in their brains like ours do. It's imperative that you get into treatment. You don't need to live this way. There is help.

What Christ did for you and I was enough. We can't help along our salvation by "figuring" things out. Please trust me....I've been there x's 10.

 

[stalag]

You came to all the conclusions I did, when I had that obsession. I'll just address one aspect. Jesus was in the old testament in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Jesus, when he lifted up the cup at the last supper, first spoke the words of the new covenant. This is the covenant of my blood, shed for you for the forgiveness of sin. We are no longer under the Deuteronomy Law of blessing and cursing. Jesus was made sin for us. There is no unforgiveable sin. Not even all the assorted ones that people in church will tell you. Notice, they always claim a different unforgiveable sin, never the same. Some say unbelief, etc.

You have the right idea when you rightly divide the word as Jesus said it. It actually says that "whoever says a bad word against the Holy Spirit" as the unforgiveable sin. But ALL SIN is atoned for by Jesus's substitutional death on the Cross. I don't know why Jesus said that in the gospels about the unforgiveable sin. I have never figured it out. But the Sermon on Mount also has some scary commands to obey to merit entering the kingdom of heaven. But Jesus's death on the Cross has also paid for all those possible breaking of the commandments and laws of the old testament.

I have a terrrible new obsession that I have had for ten years.

 

[stalag]

"Him who comes to me I will no way cast out." That scripture in John is not taken out of context, in my opinion, because if you read the several paragraphs before and after the above mentioned scripture the text does not change the meaning of the scripture. I took a brief class in hermeneutics at a church I attended for a long time. The pastor that taught it showed us how to rightly divide the word and read the Bible for ourselves.

It is hard to explain. Some scriptures that I feel are taken out of context are telling people that God will not help them if they don't have enough faith. God says things that help us get help from Him without having super faith. Like," Come unto me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest." No mention of faith there. Just come to the Lord.

 

[Caty]

I just feel like Im so lost and I dont want to be this way but I feel trapped this way and im afraid that i might have spoken a thought.

stalag---I just dont see how we can be sure about the forgiveness about our thoughts/statements with that statement from Jesus. I just dont think anyone knows and it seems like most of the 'evidence' points to saying that we cant be forgiven for saying/thinking anythign like that. and i think people make up those different "versions" of the uf-sin because they dont want to believe that Jesus would say that.

 

[stalag]

That is exactly how I feel with my ocd. Lost, tortured, tormented.
Now, that I don't have that particular ocd torture of the unforgiveable, the weight of the torture and inability to wrestle with the thought on any level is not present in my consciousness.

When you have a particular ocd torture, nothing can dissuade it's(ocd attack's) all out assault and captivity on your spirit. Even if I had it before, I can not enter in to experience the horrible feelings of that particular ocd barrage.
Another of ocd's horribleness.

I feel very bad for you. And don't see why you have to suffer in this way.

It is a diabolical attack on us all. It seems as though we could find a spiritual way to be set free.

 

[stalag]

Luke_Kep wrote an explanation of the unforgiveable in the ocd forum in Oct. 15 2008.

 

[Caty]

What did they say?

 

[annrobert]

Jesus did not say unforgiveable

Jesus said never has forgiveness


the reason they do not have forgiveness is because they do not ask

anyone who comes to Jesus for forgiveness will in no wise be cast out.

 

[annrobert]

I think we need to surrender all our fears and confusions and ocd and brokeness and frailties to Jesus

Just come to Jesus and hand it all over

It is all to big for us

Jesus is totally trustworthy

He will not let us down

He gives us rest and healing and restores our souls

nothing is to hard for Jesus

nothing is impossible to Jesus


Jesus is full of mercy and compassion


Jesus is trustworthy

Jesus is Truth

Jesus invites all to come to Him for healing and rest and strength

Jesus is compassionate and merciful and trustworthy


We can surrender our fears to Jesus

He is big enough
to heal and give rest
and make all things new

His arm is not too short to save

He wants to do this because of His mercy and compassion

He is all powerful and forgiving and gracious

He will never let us down

we can hope in Jesus

we are safe and protected


He can give us rest and healing

He invites all to come for rest forgiveness and healing


He is our Redeemer

our Saviour

our Righteousness

our strength

the Mighty Counsellor

The Prince od Peace


He is annointed to heal the broken hearted and to deliver the captives
and to set at liberty the bruised

He invites all to come to Him for forgiveness and for rest and for healing

He understands our weaknesses and is touched by our infirmities


He is compassionate

merciful

caring

longsuffering

tender
gentle
meek

lowly in heart

powerful

healing

Jesus is Good


He is Truth

He is Trustworthy


He invites us to come to Him for rest


He can do all things


He loves to heal and forgive


He protects us

understands us
forgives us
heals us
gives us rest


all things are possible with Jesus


we just come as we are


we are safe

and loved and cared and protected

 

[Caty]

but what about the speaks a wordd thing or in another scripture Jesus says somethign like we might as well say what we think because its like the same thing.

 

[Anihilus]

Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit cannot come to Christ, therefore, if you come to Christ, you have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, so go to Christ.

 

[annrobert]

They strongly believed what they said,

they were not trying hard not to say it

they were not afraid of what they believed

they were very satisfied with their beliefs and freely spoke them


they did not believe in Jesus or come to Jesus

Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.


dictionary .com

speak out, to express one's opinion openly and unreservedly: He was not afraid to speak out when it was something he believed in strongly.


Jesus said they did not believe in Him and His Words had no place in them.

They did not come to Jesus for mercy and forgiveness and did not believe in Jesus.

If they had come to Jesus

Jesus would in no wise have cast them out.

 

[Caty]

thanks guys those 2 last posts really helped me. I hope that I dont "ocd them" away. I'm trying to hold onto them. Even though I question wat you all post I DO appreciate it, you all are my crutch. & I love & thank you for it.

 

[Caty]

But Ann, I have a question about the scripture you post. Aren't they being taken out of contex and looked at singlely (like the one against the uf-sin) rather than in context?

 

[annrobert]

Since the bible speaks over and over again about forgiveness, I do not think anything is out of context.

Jesus says nothing is impossible to God.

God says nothing is too hard for Him

over and over again


He also loves to forgive and show mercy

He pleads our cause

delights in mercy

is merciful and compassionate

His mercy triumphs over justice

His mercy is new every morning

whosoever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved





He says whosoever will may come

He loves to heal and forgive and make all things new

He died for us precisely because He loves mercy

He loves us

God's arm is not too short that it cannot save.


Isaiah 53 is all about Jesus paying for our sins

and spinkling us with His blood.


Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.


Jesus says all may come and freely drink of the water of life, whososever will


Jesus says he that believeth on Me has everlasting life


Jesus says he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.



Whoever believes on the stumbling stone(Jesus will not be ashamed)


through Him we have forgiveness of sins

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself


Since the whole bible is full of God's love and mercy and grace and healing and whosoever may come

and in no wise be cast out


I do not think anything is out of context


whosoever will may come


he that cometh to Jesus will in no wise be cast out


nothing is impossible to God


Isaiah 53

whoever believes in Jesus has everlasting life


God wants to save us


God can save us

He has the power to forgive sins

God made a way


God is our Saviour and Redeemer