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[LittleLion]

Talking about heaven and hell--

We rented the video of What Dreams May Come this week. (Robin Williams in a serious role, Cuba Gooding in 1998, Annabella Sciorra.) It's certainly not a religiously-correct version of heaven and hell, but leads the viewer through some of the thought processes about choice and loss and fairness.

It's a very depressing movie, and is probably more gory than you want to watch with your kids.

And an awfully boring film at that. I didn't manage to sit through.

 

[heron]

Littlelion, I agree- the concept of God is something I haven't had to think through for many years. So I see how it's the primary issue to think through. For me, it started with thinking about the universe. Many people have already done that and have come to different conclusions than I did. I consider it almost impossible to ignore intelligent design...but my premise is Judeo-Christianity, excluding other theories.

I wonder if you've hit the nail on the head, that some people think you're "asking all those questions out of spite or joke." Who knows. Otherwise I can't explain some of the responses. Maybe people are in a hurry, and don't bother to read the whole post?

I think that some Christians are so tired of having to defend their beliefs to their friends, that some of that frustration carries over into forum discussions. I went through a lot of criticism my first or second year of being a christian, but have only heard subtle, manageable comments since.

The movie is admittedly slow. But it has some beautiful parts. Chick flick?? Guy languishes over girl and sacrifices everything for her. Guess so.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Well Tim, is it? Thanks for that, now I know what would help non-believers. Youv'e just helped me and hopefully, others, to gain understanding. Good on you

But, one last thing... we also need the Holy Spirit to HELP us live by God's commandments, and to do the things we humans find that we can't do on our own, like, follow His commandments, do the work for Him that He wants us to do (not what we want), to speak to us in our hearts and minds and show us how to live. Hope that helps too. There's much more that could be said.

Tavita, yes it's Tim. I'm still thanking you for that post. I could understand the helping me part but it was like I needed something I could visualize. I'm sure some people on this thread remember me asking a question about what, "Christians feel" when they enter into Christianity. That in some way or another was what I was needing, a visualization so that I could see something that I never seen. Thanks again Tavita.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

"Your post should be required reading for all Christians"


We've collected some data. Inquisitive minds don't respond well to:

• quotes from sources not yet respected (building logic on unaccepted logic)
• clichés, terminology without explanation
  
• put-downs and blunt statements like "you're wrong"
  
• smug answers and condescension
• requests to jump off a cliff with no wings
  
• pushes into blind corners

Have we explained why one would want to live this life? If you've read Tim's past posts, you found plenty of quick you-should-do-it-then answers. Has anyone talked about the joys in their lives? The times that God has helped them? The emotional and physical healing they've received? The mercy over life gone wrong? The power you've felt flow through you when you're with someone in need?

I've seen some wonderful answers on other threads, but Tim seems to be a magnet for competition. Sorry, Tim.

The good news is about freedom, about mercy, about God's care for us that he would go to extreme lengths to make us one with Him.


"I will rejoice in doing them good, and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul." Jer. 32:41 Ha! I quoted scriptures.

Heron, Thank you for this post. It made me feel like someone really read what I posted and even put it in a list for everyone, Ha. I agree that one thing I was asking for, I think it started with the question about, "feeling" was how great it was to be a Christian. What I was getting were demands for me to drop all and do now or I would face the consequences. I have a whole other list of these questions, HA HA. Seriously though, I wanted to feel welcome and a harmonious feeling. With the bad experiences of the churches I had tried, then come and not be welcomed here was really get tiresome but it's definitely getting better. I did run into a problem here on the forum. In a Christian section, a kid had a crush and was asking how to go about letting another know. I went to post some advice but was told I had to change my icon to Christian to do so...

Do you see the deeper part of that? That was just like the answers I was getting, snap your fingers, you are a Christian now but that is not the way I wanted to do it. To call yourself a Christian shouldn't be that easy. Not just a snap of the finger, you know? You should know it inside of you. Magnet for competition, yes, always have been. No matter what I have been doing or involved in, the competition comes calling. I think I talked about that on here about everyone wanting to be right and prove someone wrong. Great post and thanks.

Tim

 

[Tavita]

Tavita, yes it's Tim. I'm still thanking you for that post. I could understand the helping me part but it was like I needed something I could visualize. I'm sure some people on this thread remember me asking a question about what, "Christians feel" when they enter into Christianity. That in some way or another was what I was needing, a visualization so that I could see something that I never seen. Thanks again Tavita.

You know, that's really what Jesus was doing when He spoke to the disciples in parables. He'd say things like.. "now the kingdom of God is like this"... and go on to paint a picture. And it's the way the Father wanted us to learn about Him.. by sending Jesus to show us in the flesh what the Father is like. I learnt a long time ago that men in particular need to be taught by visualizing and I guess I'd forgotten it over the years. I'm so glad I was able to help you in some way.

 

[Sketcher]

It takes a believer to know God? But one first has to know God in order to become a believer?

Nah, you just need to recognize and meet God to become a believer. Then you get to personally know Him. Just like any relationship, really.

 

[Serapha]

That was just like the answers I was getting, snap your fingers, you are a Christian now but that is not the way I wanted to do it.
Tim

Well, Tim,



That's the problem... YOU want to do it... when it's God's job to transform you.


Becoming a Christian is an instantanious thing... not a journey that takes days or years to work your way in.


There is nothing that you can do to "earn" salvation.

People that are saved can tell you "when" it happened, not what decade, what year, or what day of their life, but they know the moment, the "snap of the fingers" that you reject.


~serapha~

 

[heron]

Tim,
It's time to start writing your book on Effective Communication:
How to Wig Fiends and Influence Christians...I mean, How to Warn Friends and Impact People...I mean...Effective Evangelism.

Way back to the discussion about the Bible being written for Christians. I suspect that you are a read-through-the-entire-thing-in-one-night kind of person. You might enjoy focusing on some New Testament books like Romans, and maybe Hebrews. They have a lot of reasoning in them; most of these letters were warnings to the churches about not getting off balance. (Because we do, and always have.)

You'll also find I Corinthians interesting, because it has a message in your line of thinking: if you do all these things, but don't have love, aren't you just a clanging gong or clashing cymbol (or redundant cowbell or annoying tambourine)?

I was intrigued by a review of your band, where the announcer just gushed respect and friendliness and cameraderie, and care for everyone in the room. I wonder if some of us are missing the trickle-down effect of our church leaders simply loving their congregations. Some ministers are so intent on their ministries being the next Hillsong, Hinn, megachurch, Jakes, that they are forgetting how the Body of Christ functions...and needs to function for health.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Well, Tim,



That's the problem... YOU want to do it... when it's God's job to transform you.


Becoming a Christian is an instantanious thing... not a journey that takes days or years to work your way in.


There is nothing that you can do to "earn" salvation.

People that are saved can tell you "when" it happened, not what decade, what year, or what day of their life, but they know the moment, the "snap of the fingers" that you reject.


~serapha~

Serapha, I respect your opinions. First, I have typed this out three times, stopping each time and starting over. The first time, I was debating. The second time I was, "flaming" you then I realized. I am above that. You have baited me two times already, having one thread locked and another that someone else started, removed. You told me if I want to debate to go to the apologetics section. The problem is, I never asked for debate. I asked for help and opinions. I have been getting help and opinions until now.

I am now receiving some sort of psychic reading by you of what I'm doing. What my intentions are. Calling me selfish in an subtle sort of way. Yet, I have been here discussing and learning. You come along, slam your fist down but guess what Serapha? I'm not listening to you. Until you can learn to respect me as I have you it will stay that way. When you can learn to stop belittling me I will listen. Remember something, on the thread that was locked, you said that I knew everything so you were not explaining anything else to me BUT here you are again, doing it again. The fault I find there is if I thought I knew everything would I be here asking more questions and actually learning (something someone who knows everything can't do *hint-hint*).

If my posts so offend you then why not click the ignore button? Looking for a debate Serapha? I would be glad to do it if that is your intentions but not on this section. If you are looking to help then go back and read my first post on this thread. To end this, you sent me a link about not debating on this section of the forum. I have not debated. While looking in the apologetics section, I found this and thought you might need to read it, http://www.christianforums.com/t1151579-ga-forum-banplease-read.html
Now each of my threads have been what this section is for, questions. Each time you come on and start ripping me personally. Hoping that I will get mad and lose composure so you can say, "look at him is that the way someone wanting help should act". You got me once but not again. I'm tired of you insulting me and my intelligence. Remember that it was YOU that pointed out no debating. This answer you just gave me is not an answer but instead a way to start a debate. You say it's about God and not me but all I read from you is about ME. Remember that is known as, "baiting" when I have been civil with everyone here then suddenly you pop up and everything looks like a debate. You should pay Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves some royalties.

Thanks
Tim

 

[heron]

Christian
By Maya Angelou
When I say... "I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."
I'm whispering "I was lost,
Now I'm found and forgiven."

That's all I'll post, so I don't break all the copyright laws at once.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Tim,
It's time to start writing your book on Effective Communication:
How to Wig Fiends and Influence Christians...I mean, How to Warn Friends and Impact People...I mean...Effective Evangelism.

Way back to the discussion about the Bible being written for Christians. I suspect that you are a read-through-the-entire-thing-in-one-night kind of person. You might enjoy focusing on some New Testament books like Romans, and maybe Hebrews. They have a lot of reasoning in them; most of these letters were warnings to the churches about not getting off balance. (Because we do, and always have.)

You'll also find I Corinthians interesting, because it has a message in your line of thinking: if you do all these things, but don't have love, aren't you just a clanging gong or clashing cymbol (or redundant cowbell or annoying tambourine)?

I was intrigued by a review of your band, where the announcer just gushed respect and friendliness and cameraderie, and care for everyone in the room. I wonder if some of us are missing the trickle-down effect of our church leaders simply loving their congregations. Some ministers are so intent on their ministries being the next Hillsong, Hinn, megachurch, Jakes, that they are forgetting how the Body of Christ functions...and needs to function for health.

Heron, very good use of words. I'm also working on a movie titled, "That is Your Opinion (which doesn't make it right)", Ha. I was told by a friend to read the New Testament first. I find myself using Biblegateway.com more, it keeps me from playing like a robot (starting at the beginning everytime). There are more reviews of my band. One really good descriptive one that is probably better than the one you read. When we do a show we realize that the fans are there because they want to be and we do try to make it as enjoyable as possible for them. Even the ones with 12 facial piercings and 100 tattoos. It's strange because they know every word we say. It's almost like if you treat them nice, they listen, yeah, who would have thought that?

I will read more into Romans, Hebrews and I Corinthians. My favorite to read has been Proverbs. I really do need to get busy on a website update. Thank you for this post.

Tim

 

[heron]

Oh yes, I love Proverbs. That's been a big "shield and defense" for me in the last couple of years, when our church started acting on every prophecy that appealed to them.

Bible Gateway will keep you busy forever! Except once in a while it claims to not have a search word when I know it does...withholding the truth from me?

"That is Your Opinion" --will it be in 3D, or one-dimensional?

 

[chilehed]

I've asked a few questions in the last couple of weeks. My questions usually are not answered. Instead I received sermons....if someone is here asking questions, give them answers and try to be helpful not push them away.

Thanks

The first thing I thought of when I read your post was "I hope that I'm not one of these!"

If I am, I'd appreciate knowing about it...

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

The first thing I thought of when I read your post was "I hope that I'm not one of these!"

If I am, I'd appreciate knowing about it...

Hey Chilehed, Nah, not at all. I have read other posts by you and enjoyed them. I would like to change one part of my original post and add that if scripture is used if you all could explain it as well. I do believe that would help. Also, I didn't mean for my post to sound as if I didn't want to hear scripture. What I was trying to get at was what happened with the post Tavita put on this thread, help me understand the scripture and visualize it. Littlelion had talked about we are not here to make fun of the scripture or Christianity, instead, we are trying to learn. Sometimes reading a scripture that someone posts to my questions is hard for me at least to understand how it pertains to the question I ask.

So Chilehed keep on posting, nothing wrong with yours. Most of the people on here mean well and it can be seen, including your posts and are appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim

 

[Serapha]

Serapha, I respect your opinions. First, I have typed this out three times, stopping each time and starting over. The first time, I was debating. The second time I was, "flaming" you then I realized. I am above that. You have baited me two times already, having one thread locked and another that someone else started, removed. You told me if I want to debate to go to the apologetics section. The problem is, I never asked for debate. I asked for help and opinions. I have been getting help and opinions until now.

I am now receiving some sort of psychic reading by you of what I'm doing. What my intentions are. Calling me selfish in an subtle sort of way. Yet, I have been here discussing and learning. You come along, slam your fist down but guess what Serapha? I'm not listening to you. Until you can learn to respect me as I have you it will stay that way. When you can learn to stop belittling me I will listen. Remember something, on the thread that was locked, you said that I knew everything so you were not explaining anything else to me BUT here you are again, doing it again. The fault I find there is if I thought I knew everything would I be here asking more questions and actually learning (something someone who knows everything can't do *hint-hint*).

If my posts so offend you then why not click the ignore button? Looking for a debate Serapha? I would be glad to do it if that is your intentions but not on this section. If you are looking to help then go back and read my first post on this thread. To end this, you sent me a link about not debating on this section of the forum. I have not debated. While looking in the apologetics section, I found this and thought you might need to read it, http://www.christianforums.com/t1151579-ga-forum-banplease-read.html
Now each of my threads have been what this section is for, questions. Each time you come on and start ripping me personally. Hoping that I will get mad and lose composure so you can say, "look at him is that the way someone wanting help should act". You got me once but not again. I'm tired of you insulting me and my intelligence. Remember that it was YOU that pointed out no debating. This answer you just gave me is not an answer but instead a way to start a debate. You say it's about God and not me but all I read from you is about ME. Remember that is known as, "baiting" when I have been civil with everyone here then suddenly you pop up and everything looks like a debate. You should pay Al Pacino and Keanu Reeves some royalties.

Thanks
Tim

Tim, it is as you wish... you are back on "ignore"...

I won't "pamper" you as others will...you violated the rules in your first postings and then blame me because things didn't go your way.

As for this...

http://www.christianforums.com/t1151579-ga-forum-banplease-read.html

Yes.. please read and heed the posting... ignorance is not excused on Christian forums... Each forum has it's own additional set of rules and it is best to read the forum rules BEFORE posting so there are no misunderstandings.

When you become a Christian, remember... "forgive and forget" all those who have transgressed you in this lifetime.

and Tim, one more thing you need to learn before you post more... that ignore button can be used both ways.


~have a good one~

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Tim, it is as you wish... you are back on "ignore"...

I won't "pamper" you as others will...you violated the rules in your first postings and then blame me because things didn't go your way.

As for this...

http://www.christianforums.com/t1151579-ga-forum-banplease-read.html

Yes.. please read and heed the posting... ignorance is not excused on Christian forums... Each forum has it's own additional set of rules and it is best to read the forum rules BEFORE posting so there are no misunderstandings.

When you become a Christian, remember... "forgive and forget" all those who have transgressed you in this lifetime.

and Tim, one more thing you need to learn before you post more... that ignore button can be used both ways.


~have a good one~

You are such a class act Serapha. If you would ever talk to me and not belittle me then I would listen to you. I respect your knowledge but not your attitude. I could learn a lot from you but in turn you could learn a lot from me, starting with respect.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

Tim, it is as you wish... you are back on "ignore"...

I won't "pamper" you as others will...you violated the rules in your first postings and then blame me because things didn't go your way.

As for this...

http://www.christianforums.com/t1151579-ga-forum-banplease-read.html

Yes.. please read and heed the posting... ignorance is not excused on Christian forums... Each forum has it's own additional set of rules and it is best to read the forum rules BEFORE posting so there are no misunderstandings.

When you become a Christian, remember... "forgive and forget" all those who have transgressed you in this lifetime.

and Tim, one more thing you need to learn before you post more... that ignore button can be used both ways.


~have a good one~

Forgot something, where did I violate the rules? I didn't receive any kind of warning. The thread is still up but locked. Still it is up, where as I have seen the ones that violated rules, moved, or deleted.

 

[LittleLion]

In a Christian section, a kid had a crush and was asking how to go about letting another know. I went to post some advice but was told I had to change my icon to Christian to do so...

I'm facing a similar problem now: One of my threads has been moved to General Apologetics -- may I post there in a thread I have started myself? Who knows ....


* * *

twistedsketch,

Nah, you just need to recognize and meet God to become a believer. Then you get to personally know Him. Just like any relationship, really.

And who is God? How can one recognize God if one doesn't know who God is?

So simple to you, isn't it?
It's responses like yours that make me want to leave and let you have your precious secrets to yourself.

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

I'm facing a similar problem now: One of my threads has been moved to General Apologetics -- may I post there in a thread I have started myself? Who knows ....

Littlelion, I have been meaning to get to your replies to my post. It does seem a little unfair to start moving threads and locking them, especially when we are not cursing, not doing anything offensive in general, just that one or two people finds it offensive. I'm pretty sure everyone can post in the General Apologetics section. That is where I was told to go if I wanted to debate.

I have followed some of your threads and noticed similar responses to your questions as I was getting to mine. I think those people should have their posts moved to a section that should be called, "Section for people who are not good at answering the question they are asked". The good thing about this forum is that there are many that want to help, some do, others are not for sure how to help so they are willing to learn along with us learning from them.

My biggest problem so far has been the feeling of being baited away from my original question. When I went away from the original question, my thread was locked. It's one of those situations where you wonder if some people here get special treatment. Not trying to cause dissention here just stating the obvious. My other problem has been the group that thinks they know everything. One person had replied to every thread I posted with, "You're wrong about that", "No, you are still wrong" but when time came for me to correct that person on a mistake he made, he has never posted to my threads since.

To me that shows that many of the non-believers have valid arguments when it comes to the, "holier than thou" arguments. Now this was one person but as you can see there is another person on this thread that refuses to hear my side of anything. That person is met with refusal by me. I'm not backing down on here because I came for help. It would be like someone going into drug rehab then saying, "Forget it, I'm leaving because one of the people who works there does drugs". I'm trying to keep an open mind and be open to advice even though I think many people here need advice as well.

It has become pretty frustrating when I can post a thread and can almost reply for 1/4 of the people on this site to my own thread because I already know what that 1/4 will say. There seems to be a superioroity complex by some on here. The complex that says, "You don't believe like me, therefore you are stupid and I can talk down to you". It's like we need to put a definition up for the word, "help". You ask for help but instead you get what your fate will be if you don't accept what they are saying. That is not help.
After they realize what help means, we will put the definiton of, "respect" up. Then we will finish that with the word, "Christ" and they will see how, "help" and "respect" were two things that Jesus was known for.

Thanks for your posts,
Tim

 

[TheTruthinFiction]

twistedsketch,





And who is God? How can one recognize God if one doesn't know who God is?

So simple to you, isn't it?
It's responses like yours that make me want to leave and let you have your precious secrets to yourself.

I know I'm not twistedsketch but I wanted to reply to this one as well. Here is where I get in trouble. Littlelion, I think that when we get answers like this one that twistedsketch gave you it is because we thought more than they can understand. It's not that they are not intelligent enough to think about it, just not willing to think that someone couldn't possibly not know God.

The end part of your answer to twistedsketch is perfect. Many of the replies I have received on here act as if there is a big secret that they are not willing to explain. I have stepped away from the forum for a few days at a time to let my older threads die down, thinking when I come back everyone will be helpful but no, we will continue to receive these type of answers. As you can see in one person calls me ignorant. I really wished that that person knew and understood the meaning of the word ignorant.

Try not to pay attention to the ignorant replies. Hey, if I can be called ignorant than I can play ignorant and call some of the replies ignorant. We are bordering on pushing the wrong button here, HA. I'm going to get my politician hat on and take those that call me ignorant to a debate but of course they wouldn't do that. They might have to realize they are the one that have no answers. I really have around 100 or so questions that I would like to ask on here, most would have to go in the apologetics section even though that section is not frequented by the Christian members which would defeat the purpose of the question since I would need Christians to answer them.

We are stuck, we ask for help, we get told our fate. Some kind of scare tactic. Not realizing that if someone is having trouble believing in God or the Bible that they wouldn't have a reason to be afraid. Just keep trying, there are a lot of people on here that are helpful.

Tim