New PETA Ads. Ugh...

[BAFRIEND]

Good bumberstickers I have seen lately:

People Eating Tasty Animals.

There is plenty of room for all Gods creatures...
right next to the mash potatos.

 

[Braunwyn]

Good bumberstickers I have seen lately:

People Eating Tasty Animals.

There is plenty of room for all Gods creatures...
right next to the mash potatos.

The sentiment completely lacks compassion, respect and the humility you ideally should feel for surving off the life of another. Do what you will but finding joy in cruetly is pretty scary from where I sit.

 

[SallyNow]

You say you have cats. I would think you have seen a cat playing with it's prey. At least on a par with what man does. How about some wasps whose larve consume other beings alive?

Not to be crude or anything, but cats, as cute and sweet as they are, also happen to lick themselves clean.

Humans don't do that. We use water and soap. You know why? We're intellectually capable of realizing that licking ourselves clean just isn't the way to go.

In the same way, as humans, we should be able to realize that torturing animals, causing pain to others, whether animal or human, when there are more kindly, less painful ways of going about our business, is wrong.

We're human. If we can send a person to the moon, surely we can also figure out that bloody factory farming is a brutal, horrible, unnecessary way of getting our food.

However, if people would like to give up toilet paper and start cleansing in the animal way, go to it. If a person is not civilized enough to realize that causing pain to animals is wrong, they probably aren't civilized enough to use TP either.

 

[Braunwyn]

Not to be crude or anything, but cats, as cute and sweet as they are, also happen to lick themselves clean.

Humans don't do that. We use water and soap. You know why? We're intellectually capable of realizing that licking ourselves clean just isn't the way to go.

In the same way, as humans, we should be able to realize that torturing animals, causing pain to others, whether animal or human, when there are more kindly, less painful ways of going about our business, is wrong.

We're human. If we can send a person to the moon, surely we can also figure out that bloody factory farming is a brutal, horrible, unnecessary way of getting our food.

However, if people would like to give up toilet paper and start cleansing in the animal way, go to it. If a person is not civilized enough to realize that causing pain to animals is wrong, they probably aren't civilized enough to use TP either.

lol ah, funny examples. I brought up my cat's for the same reason.

 

[Bombila]

I suspect most people, if they know the truth about the worst of factory farming and slaughterhouses, and let themselves think about it, are very much opposed to the cruelty and to the stress and fear the animals experience. I think flippant responses like BAFRIEND's indicate, not some kind of hardened cruelty, but a frustration born of feeling helpless to change things, and a cynicism about the people (like PETA) who claim they want to change things.

PETA, with its two million members and its money - they are very successful fundraisers - isn't very good at changing anything. They aren't even very good at telling people the truth, because their style is so exaggerated most people tune out.

There are people who are good at making humane changes, like Temple Grandin, who has worked with slaughterhouses to minimize some of the stress and fear. Her story is worth reading for other reasons as well.

http://www.grandin.com/

There are ways to be kinder to animals while still farming them for food. But changing is costly, because we have huge urban populations who don't have as much choice as us rural people. I can go to small farms where beef cattle are healthy and walking around in the grassy pastures until the day they are slaughtered, and they are only slaughtered when a customer arranges to buy the meat. Buying free range eggs is easy; thousands of people raise a few chickens in their backyard. City people can't do this, and most will not (and cannot, sometimes) give up cheap and easy protein.

Another reason meat-eaters become resentful when accused of brutality by vegetarians is because of what I remarked on in an earlier post - vegetarians and vegans never address or even investigate the cruel facts about the sources and environmental impact of their own diet, and their own choice of clothing. Believe me, there's plenty of guilt to go 'round to everybody. But our eating habits really pale alongside the worst of what humans are doing, which is destroying the very environment most animals evolved to live in.

 

[Mling]

Indeed. PETA goes where it shouldn't and probably does the cause as much harm as good. In the end though it's not an excuse for blood lust, despite such lust aka gluttony being our "natural" instincts. One of my cat's ate her young and the other chews on his own pooh. Yes, we are animals but we are moral beings (supposedly though I guess that's up for debate) unlike any other animal on this globe.

And no other animal in the food chain specializes in the toture we create via factory farms.

I can't help but notice your Harlow sig. Another perfect example of how unbelievably cruel we people can be to animals.

 

[WatersMoon110]

I suspect most people, if they know the truth about the worst of factory farming and slaughterhouses, and let themselves think about it, are very much opposed to the cruelty and to the stress and fear the animals experience. I think flippant responses like BAFRIEND's indicate, not some kind of hardened cruelty, but a frustration born of feeling helpless to change things, and a cynicism about the people (like PETA) who claim they want to change things.

PETA, with its two million members and its money - they are very successful fundraisers - isn't very good at changing anything. They aren't even very good at telling people the truth, because their style is so exaggerated most people tune out.

There are people who are good at making humane changes, like Temple Grandin, who has worked with slaughterhouses to minimize some of the stress and fear. Her story is worth reading for other reasons as well.

http://www.grandin.com/

There are ways to be kinder to animals while still farming them for food. But changing is costly, because we have huge urban populations who don't have as much choice as us rural people. I can go to small farms where beef cattle are healthy and walking around in the grassy pastures until the day they are slaughtered, and they are only slaughtered when a customer arranges to buy the meat. Buying free range eggs is easy; thousands of people raise a few chickens in their backyard. City people can't do this, and most will not (and cannot, sometimes) give up cheap and easy protein.

Another reason meat-eaters become resentful when accused of brutality by vegetarians is because of what I remarked on in an earlier post - vegetarians and vegans never address or even investigate the cruel facts about the sources and environmental impact of their own diet, and their own choice of clothing. Believe me, there's plenty of guilt to go 'round to everybody. But our eating habits really pale alongside the worst of what humans are doing, which is destroying the very environment most animals evolved to live in.

Wonderful post! Thank you for adding some more sanity and logic to the discussion!

I agree, destroying complex ecosystems (especially in places like the Rain Forest and the Oceans) is the worst things humans as a whole species are doing! But many ways we farm in the US are contributing to the destruction, like all the pesticides we dowse everything growing with! Pesticides, by the way, which don't even really work (since they kill off predator bugs along with their prey - thus leading to an even larger prey population, as predators breed more slowly), run off into ground water, and can poison larger creatures (either when they drink polluted water, or when they eat poisoned animals).

I really like how you said: "I think flippant responses like BAFRIEND's indicate, not some kind of hardened cruelty, but a frustration born of feeling helpless to change things, and a cynicism about the people (like PETA) who claim they want to change things."

I really agree with that. People aren't joking about such serious issues because they enjoy being cruel, but because they can't see any way to end that cruelty, and resort to humor.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Humans in the US are going to have to pay more for animal products, if they want those animals to be humanely raised. There is no way to cheaply raise animals without being cruel to them, it is expensive to raise animals (what I would consider) the "right way". It is also expensive to raise plants (what I would consider) the "right way", without using poisons on them, or on the soil.

We (Western People) wanted cheap food, and now people complain about the many negative side effects of getting that food so cheap. Either we need to take the more expensive ethical route (which involves eating less expensive meat, and more plant-based protein) or they need to understand and accept the horrible consequence of the way we currently raise animals.

But I don't feel that PETA goes about trying to inform people of the living conditions in farms, in the correct manner. I don't think that offending people really helps to inform them, and I think it closes the minds and ears of a lot of people. I really appreciate all of the saner animal welfare groups (as opposed to "animal rights groups"), like the people trying to improve the conditions of laying hens in California.

 

[Braunwyn]

I can't help but notice your Harlow sig. Another perfect example of how unbelievably cruel we people can be to animals.

It's nice to see that someone noticed (grizzly did as well). A week or two ago I was watching discovery health and they had a show about psychologists screwing around with monkeys...raising them to never have physical contact with another being in order to watch how they turned out. It broke my mind for a while (hence the sig).

I can certainly understand how people forget the cruelty animals experience in the day-to-day. We all get so busy. But in those moments, like the one I experienced while watching these poor creatures scream and hold themselves in fear, I wish I was never born into this forsaken world. It brings such loathing in me (of myself and almost everyone else). I weep for these animals unlike I ever could for a human.

 

[stan1980]

I don't know if I'm becoming immune to poor taste, but I don't think those ads are controversial at all. Animal cruelty happens, I don't have a problem with groups raising awareness in this manner. I don't even have a problem with someone telling me I should become a vegan. They probably have a point, the trouble is I just can't stand vegetarian food. I'm not proud of the fact I eat meat, so I have no problem with compromising, and paying extra for food products where the animals have been kept in as humane conditions as possible (free range eggs etc).

So, where exactly is the problem with a group like PETA making comparisons to the way in which a human was killed and the way in which animals are killed routinely? If they manage to turn some people vegetarian as a result, then good for them! I can't see why anyone would actually start eating MORE meat after seeing these ads, so I'm struggling to see the problem with their campaign.

 

[Braunwyn]

Here's a clip with Harlow's monkeys (and others) for anyone not familiar and interested. There's a general summary script as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA5XxjYX8Ns

 

[stan1980]

I feel like I've had this whole conversation before.

Making people feel guilty about something with an ad is not a problem. Taking recent individual tragedies like the young Canadian decapitated by a madman who ate parts of him before the police got him and using such tragedies to advance your own agenda before the family's even had time to put the lad in the ground is abhorrent. That is what PETA did.

I can see your point, obviously I can't speak for the family of the victim, but if it were a member of my family who was killed, then PETA would have my full blessing to go ahead with the ad. Maybe I'm guilty of being insensitive, but I can't see how this ad would make the family feel any worse, after all, the event was reported all over the world anyway. Personally, I'd be pleased if some good could come out of it, but that's just me.

Incidentally, we don't know whether PETA asked permission first, do we? Even if they didn't, then why aren't we criticising all the media outlets who chose to go with the story, in quite graphic detail I might add.

 

[Braunwyn]

I can see your point, obviously I can't speak for the family of the victim, but if it were a member of my family who was killed, then PETA would have my full blessing to go ahead with the ad. Maybe I'm guilty of being insensitive, but I can't see how this ad would make the family feel any worse, after all, the event was reported all over the world anyway. Personally, I'd be pleased if some good could come out of it, but that's just me.

I feel the same as you although I understand that people tend to be (naturally) speciesists. Comparing one human horror to another human horror is usually acceptable. Non-human animals don't hold the same value for most on the surface.

To share, which I probably wouldn't do normally but it has been an emotional day for me, my twin brother under went a major operation between 6-9am. He's a very sick guy and such surgeries have been the norm in our family. All morning at work I wondered if he was going to live or die. I had to reason with myself in order to compartmentalize. I've experienced much sorrow over human suffering due to him in the last 19 years but it has never belittled my sorrow for the suffering of animals. Eh, maybe my experiences with him contribute to the compassion I feel so deeply for animals...maybe it's not a coincidence that I'm veg for just under 19 years. Most folk ime (at work, with friends, etc) don't have suffering in their face day after day.

In the end, most larger animals, from mouse to elephant, experience pain, fear, attachment, and need. As I've stated in previous posts, what seems to set humans apart from other animals is our considerations for conscience and morals. This is one of the reasons that I cling to the idea that people are generally amoral in their behaviors towards animals. In that people don't intentionally harm animals. They just don't know any better morally, like non-human animals.

 

[Bombila]

I can see your point, obviously I can't speak for the family of the victim, but if it were a member of my family who was killed, then PETA would have my full blessing to go ahead with the ad. Maybe I'm guilty of being insensitive, but I can't see how this ad would make the family feel any worse, after all, the event was reported all over the world anyway. Personally, I'd be pleased if some good could come out of it, but that's just me.

Incidentally, we don't know whether PETA asked permission first, do we? Even if they didn't, then why aren't we criticising all the media outlets who chose to go with the story, in quite graphic detail I might add.

As a matter of fact, Stan, the family definitely did not give PETA permission at all. Of course the story itself was reported widely, because it was so horrifying and so unusual. The family early on had a member give a brief statement by phone to a reporter (CBC, I think) and thereafter was very quiet. I think they are a generally quiet, uncontroversial working class family, and were very deeply shocked by the murder and the response afterwards.

I do understand your point, but consider that the media finished with the story in a few days, while PETA may use the story for years, meaning family members could encounter this very unpleasant reminder anywhere PETA advertises. I don't know how the family feels about animal rights, but it's possible that they don't approve of PETA, in which case PETA really ought to back off, IMO.

 

[stan1980]

I feel the same as you although I understand that people tend to be (naturally) speciesists. Comparing one human horror to another human horror is usually acceptable. Non-human animals don't hold the same value for most on the surface.

To share, which I probably wouldn't do normally but it has been an emotional day for me, my twin brother under went a major operation between 6-9am. He's a very sick guy and such surgeries have been the norm in our family. All morning at work I wondered if he was going to live or die. I had to reason with myself in order to compartmentalize. I've experienced much sorrow over human suffering due to him in the last 19 years but it has never belittled my sorrow for the suffering of animals. Eh, maybe my experiences with him contribute to the compassion I feel so deeply for animals...maybe it's not a coincidence that I'm veg for just under 19 years. Most folk ime (at work, with friends, etc) don't have suffering in their face day after day.

In the end, most larger animals, from mouse to elephant, experience pain, fear, attachment, and need. As I've stated in previous posts, what seems to set humans apart from other animals is our considerations for conscience and morals. This is one of the reasons that I cling to the idea that people are generally amoral in their behaviors towards animals. In that people don't intentionally harm animals. They just don't know any better morally, like non-human animals.

Firstly, I hope your brother pulls through, it must be tough times. When I look at animals, I don't find it to hard to feel some sort of empathy, as you point out they share so many characteristics as we do, after all we are all animals too, which is why we should treat them better and if we do have to eat them or keep them for eggs and dairy products, we should make efforts to make sure their lives are as comfortable as possible.

 

[stan1980]

As a matter of fact, Stan, the family definitely did not give PETA permission at all. Of course the story itself was reported widely, because it was so horrifying and so unusual. The family early on had a member give a brief statement by phone to a reporter (CBC, I think) and thereafter was very quiet. I think they are a generally quiet, uncontroversial working class family, and were very deeply shocked by the murder and the response afterwards.

I do understand your point, but consider that the media finished with the story in a few days, while PETA may use the story for years, meaning family members could encounter this very unpleasant reminder anywhere PETA advertises. I don't know how the family feels about animal rights, but it's possible that they don't approve of PETA, in which case PETA really ought to back off, IMO.

I can certainly see how it would be insensitive of PETA to continue with this particular campaign against the families wishes, but I'm not entirely comfortable with getting offended on someone else's behalf, not unless I'm pretty sure they are actually be offended. PETA don't have much of a presence in my country (I'd barely heard of them anyway), so I don't really know how they generally operate, but I'm imagining the ad in question will only be effective for as long as the story is fresh in peoples minds, so I'd assume it will be shelved soon if not already. If they do persist with it and the family are offended, I would hope a family member or someone close will get in contact with PETA to get them to withdraw, and hopefully they'll agree (I don't see why they wouldn't).

Anyway, all I'm trying to say, is that I don't think it is my place to get offended by this.