New perspective needed

[seajoy]

I'm not sure if it is alright to put this thread here...but I would like to know what my new on-line lutheran friends thoughts (advice) are on a subject that is really bothering me. Sorry if this is too long...I'll try to be as brief as possible.

My husband and I belonged to a different wels church. My hubby was an elder, and on the council. This church was treating the pastor very badly (he was doing nothing against scripture, they just didn't like his personality). To make a long story short, the pastor and nearly the entire council ended up leaving the church, as did several other families.

We have since found a wonderful, mission minded, friendly, wels church, and we are so happy there. My problem is our best friends...I'm having so much trouble understanding why they won't leave the old church. (this church has treated several other pastors in the same nasty fashion). It's become terribly hard to talk about this with them. Why would someone want to stay in a church like that? They don't agree with how the pastor was treated, but yet they can't bring themselves to leave.

I don't want this to hurt our friendship. They mean so much to us. I need some input from folks who are coming from a different perspective. I guess I'm just too close to this, and was hurt too much.

Thanks, seajoy

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

A couple of questions:

Do you know why their is such decension in the old church? Why do they treat pastors with such disdain? Is the old church doing something that is Biblicly wrong? Is each WELS church autonomous and can the district be brought into this problem? Why did the other families leave and if they did it for support for the pastor can you have your friends also talk to them?

Obviously the old church has some serious problems and the love of Jesus and their fellow man is lacking. Maybe if you could approach you friends from the Christian standpoint of being Christ-like and that the old church is not following His example. Instead of just trying to convince your friends from secular, intelectual standpoint on the seriousness of the old church's problem maybe you can address it from a Christian standpoint.

 

[Jim47]

I think Radidio is on the right track. You really need to bring in a district Pastor. There is something serously wrong for a congregation to chase off a Pastor and most of the council.

Can you elaborate at all on the problem?

 

[seajoy]

Jim and Radidio,

I feel I may have opened up a hornets nest here, so I did take a few moments to pray before responding to your questions.

As to the disdain for the pastors...that is a tough one, but I will try to answer. The pastor is expected to do most everything there. The group (as I'll call them) seems to decide when and how things should happen. Such as, one elderly pastor was told he IS retiring now. Another had to leave because he asked for a second pastor to help with the large congregation, that was voted down, and he felt he couldn't stay and adequatly do the job alone. This last one, they just didn't like, and spread enough rumors until they had many folks believing things about him.
Those of us who stuck by him were outcasts.

Yes, the district is now involved, but it will be a long time before this congregation is on it's feet. We had belonged to this church for about 11yrs. We had never belonged to a church like it before. It certainly feels good to be in the type of church we are now.

Our friends have belonged to the old church for 25+ years. I think they feel they are somehow going to change it. We feel so badly that they won't get to be in a "normal" church, and know how wonderful it is.

The hurts that were done to us at the old church are beyond what I could explain here.

My fear about talking on this is that others will think that all wels churches are like this. They are not. I feel a lot of guilt in even discussing this here. But the hurts are so bad, I'm having trouble getting over it...and am afraid of losing our best friends over it. They are very strong christians, and both study the bible all the time.

Sorry to ramble...I'm just at a loss on what to do.

thanks again, seajoy

 

[C.F.W. Walther]

This is the same eternal delema that beseiges every Christian in one form or another. Some leave denoms or church bodies because of erancies or some stay and fight. Some take the advice and "don't throw pearls before the swine" and others put up "the good fight of faith". Some "shake the dust from the sandals" and move on and some believe that "a prophet is not know in his own country". What ever is decided by your friends is only something they can decide and they totally need your prayer support for wisdom and guidance. It sounds as if they feel strong enough in the Lord to cope with it and sounds like it's their decision.

 

[seajoy]

This is the same eternal delema that beseiges every Christian in one form or another. Some leave denoms or church bodies because of erancies or some stay and fight. Some take the advice and "don't throw pearls before the swine" and others put up "the good fight of faith". Some "shake the dust from the sandals" and move on and some believe that "a prophet is not know in his own country". What ever is decided by your friends is only something they can decide and they totally need your prayer support for wisdom and guidance. It sounds as if they feel strong enough in the Lord to cope with it and sounds like it's their decision.

Like I said, I need other folk's perspective. I'm just too close to this to look at it objectively.
I know in my heart you are right. Our friends staying there is just not the outcome "I" want. (selfish little sinner that I am...I think I know just how it should be ).
Thanks for your input. I know I need to look to Christ for help in this.
seajoy

 

[ctay]

I've been trying to decide myself whether I should change church's or not. Its a small church and seems like there is one elite group that tends to run everything. Don't want to get into it to much, I've just been praying about it a lot lately. Its an LCMS church.

 

[seajoy]

I've been trying to decide myself whether I should change church's or not. Its a small church and seems like there is one elite group that tends to run everything. Don't want to get into it to much, I've just been praying about it a lot lately. Its an LCMS church.

I wanted to leave the old church way before my husband did. Since he's the head of the house, I stayed along with him. He was there for the pastor and the rest of the council, and some other folks in the congregation. He really felt God wanted him there at that time. After everything blew, he knew his job was done, and it was time to go.

I didn't mention that our friends have not totally decided to stay at the old church, but they are certainly leaning that way. They also have had a hard time deciding. It's been at least 6 months since the rest of us left.

If this is tugging at your heart, I would seriously look at the situation. It isn't easy going to a new church either, as you have to make friends all over again, but it was definately worth it in our case.

May God go with you in your decision!

seajoy

 

[ctay]

Its been hard trying to decide to wait and see if the church grows and things change or go ahead and find another church.

 

[Gospellightofmine]

So - If your friends decide to stay with that church, you won't be friends any longer?

How do we make decisions on the church we attend?
What is the break-down? 50% scriptural base, 50% congregation's friendliness...

I attend a church that my family really doesn't fit into, if you will. Majority of the congregation is elderly or above 45 yrs old, mostly caucasian and there are families that seems really close who make up the majority of our entertainers. (Those families usually sing the solos, or duets or play the instruments or speak during our special services)

My husband and I considered changing churches but he decided we belong where we feel we gain the most spiritually as a family and as individuals. We decided to stay. He felt the scripture that was fed and how it was fed to us was what we needed. We are lucky to have brother churches that if we chose to look for more fellowship, we can ask about their groups.

Unfortunately I think clicks or people who choose to be in a close circle of similar minded folks are present in our churches but should we allow these people to decide whether we feel "in" or "out"?

It's great that you decided as a family to move on. I think other families should sit down and consider different congregations. (*Side question: Do we, as a member of a congregation, get too "comfortable" at our church? As if it belongs to the congregation? Should we all consider "rotating" churches to enhance our fellowship or to experience all of our wonderful pastors and the skills and gifts they bring to their preaching?) (I enjoy the seasons where our local pastors rotate - such amazing sermons!!!)

I pray your old congregation and all congregations are being fed the Word of God according to His trusting Word. I pray your christian friendship can make it through this.

You might be right. (Kudos on self-evaluating why you are feeling this way) You might feel you want them to change because "you want" them to... but it is understandable. (Are you asking them to attend your church? - thinking it's easier to transition to a new congregation if you bring along another family?)

So maybe you don't talk about it anymore. Instead of talking about the congregation, talk about The Word. Do things that won't bring you to that conversation. Have board games ready Allow your friends to make their personal decision. You've approach them ... They know how you feel.

**Congratulations on your choice to switch congregations. Sounds like you are much happier!!!! God's blessings, my friend!!!

Fellow WELS member

 

[seajoy]

So - If your friends decide to stay with that church, you won't be friends any longer?

How do we make decisions on the church we attend?
What is the break-down? 50% scriptural base, 50% congregation's friendliness...

I attend a church that my family really doesn't fit into, if you will. Majority of the congregation is elderly or above 45 yrs old, mostly caucasian and there are families that seems really close who make up the majority of our entertainers. (Those families usually sing the solos, or duets or play the instruments or speak during our special services)

My husband and I considered changing churches but he decided we belong where we feel we gain the most spiritually as a family and as individuals. We decided to stay. He felt the scripture that was fed and how it was fed to us was what we needed. We are lucky to have brother churches that if we chose to look for more fellowship, we can ask about their groups.

Unfortunately I think clicks or people who choose to be in a close circle of similar minded folks are present in our churches but should we allow these people to decide whether we feel "in" or "out"?

It's great that you decided as a family to move on. I think other families should sit down and consider different congregations. (*Side question: Do we, as a member of a congregation, get too "comfortable" at our church? As if it belongs to the congregation? Should we all consider "rotating" churches to enhance our fellowship or to experience all of our wonderful pastors and the skills and gifts they bring to their preaching?) (I enjoy the seasons where our local pastors rotate - such amazing sermons!!!)

I pray your old congregation and all congregations are being fed the Word of God according to His trusting Word. I pray your christian friendship can make it through this.

You might be right. (Kudos on self-evaluating why you are feeling this way) You might feel you want them to change because "you want" them to... but it is understandable. (Are you asking them to attend your church? - thinking it's easier to transition to a new congregation if you bring along another family?)

So maybe you don't talk about it anymore. Instead of talking about the congregation, talk about The Word. Do things that won't bring you to that conversation. Have board games ready Allow your friends to make their personal decision. You've approach them ... They know how you feel.

**Congratulations on your choice to switch congregations. Sounds like you are much happier!!!! God's blessings, my friend!!!

Fellow WELS member

If they stay at the old church, I have a fear of it hurting our friendship. That is what weighs on my heart. I'm not the type of person who says you must do it my way, or else. They actually agree with us on every point, when it comes to the old church's situation, they just feel it may not be the time for them to leave. That's the part that's hard to talk about, as they mean so much to us, but we won't be attending church together anymore.

We have invited them to our new church (5 times)...they liked it very much, they are just very torn. I think the Lord has helped me decide to leave this alone. Things will happen in His time, not mine. And perhaps they are meant to stay there. I don't know.

Also, it was more than feeling "in or out." The things that were done to us and others, I don't feel right putting down here.

Thanks for your input...by the way, we do get out board games...it cuts down on all the seriousness !

seajoy

 

[ctay]

There are things I don't feel putting down here either. The thing about being "in" or "out", if everyone was Christ centered, it should be everyone working together in Christ and everyone getting along. I don't feel its this way with this church sometimes. Maybe it goes along with a small church. I don't know.