New Jerusalem?

[BABerean2]

The subject is about the New Jerusalem, as recorded in the following, directly from the Word of God, our Bible:

Heb 11:15　 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.　
Heb 11:16　 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.　


Abraham is not looking to return to Canaan Land. He is "now" looking for New Jerusalem.
I am looking for the same thing.



We are not come to the sacrificial system of Sinai.
Instead, we are come to the New Covenant of New Jerusalem.


Heb 12:18　 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake　
Heb 12:22　 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.　

 

[Original Happy Camper]

By what recognized Christian authority do you arrive at the above views? And where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible?

Rabbit trail question

The following verse appliues to one or the other of us;
2 Thessalonians 2:10-13
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...

You say it is me and I say it is you.

Doctrine does matter as it is the Doctrine of Jesus Christ that matters not all of mans doctines.

If you do not remove the last week of the seventieth week prophecy to the end of time (futurism as taught by the Jesuits) your whole theology crumbles.

You started with an end result and have to move this week to support it.

Try putting the last week back where it belongs being fulfilled by Jesus Christ and see what happens to you theology. That is you fatal mistake in misinterperting the scriptures that you quote over and over.

I can see that your opinion of yourself and your theology on this forum site is superior to all others. Why else would you ask my qualifications?

 

[Quasar92]

Heb 11:15　 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.　
Heb 11:16　 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.　


Abraham is not looking to return to Canaan Land. He is "now" looking for New Jerusalem.
I am looking for the same thing.



We are not come to the sacrificial system of Sinai.
Instead, we are come to the New Covenant of New Jerusalem.


Heb 12:18　 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake　
Heb 12:22　 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.　

The New Jerusalem WILL NOT be on the present earth. But rather, on the new earth God will provide for all of us who belong to Jesus Christ, as recorded in Rev.21 1-3. From which, there is no option.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Rabbit trail question

The following verse appliues to one or the other of us;
2 Thessalonians 2:10-13
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...

You say it is me and I say it is you.

Doctrine does matter as it is the Doctrine of Jesus Christ that matters not all of mans doctines.

If you do not remove the last week of the seventieth week prophecy to the end of time (futurism as taught by the Jesuits) your whole theology crumbles.

You started with an end result and have to move this week to support it.

Try putting the last week back where it belongs being fulfilled by Jesus Christ and see what happens to you theology. That is you fatal mistake in misinterperting the scriptures that you quote over and over.

I can see that your opinion of yourself and your theology on this forum site is superior to all others. Why else would you ask my qualifications?

The above does not dignify any response from me at all.


Quasar92

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The above does not ditgnivy any re4sponse from me at all.


Quasar92

You just proved my statement

 

[FIRESTORM314]

The following is a description of New Jerusalem, can you tell me where it is if it is here now so I can go see it.

If not then please explain these verses
Rev 21
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

The inhabinets of this city are the people of God after the first resserection.

EPHESIANS 3:18

And may you have the power to understand, as all God's people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love is

 

[Douggg]

When does the new or heavenly Jerusalem arrive?

After the great white throne judgement at the end of the millennium. All my brothers (in Christ) and sisters (in Christ) in time will be there.

My advice considering some of the tone in the discussion in this thread - let God take care of it. He is the Father of us all.

 

[BABerean2]

After the great white throne judgement at the end of the millennium. All my brothers (in Christ) and sisters (in Christ) in time will be there.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Douggg]

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

John 14:4-6 4You know the way to the place where I am going." 5Thomas said to him, "LORD, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.

 

[BABerean2]

John 14:4-6 4You know the way to the place where I am going." 5Thomas said to him, "LORD, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

.

 

[DavidPT]

Rev_21:2　 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
How can John say this if it did not actually happen?

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


I realize you are being serious, yet you need to get real here. If verse 2 has already happened, that means all of the following has already happened, too.

the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


So you believe all of these things have happened as well? Thus why I indicated you need to get real here. Obviously none of the above has happened as of yet. But if you think they have I'm not going to waste time trying to reason with you then. There would be no way to reason with someone who believes all of the above has already occurred. But maybe you don't even believe any of the above has occurred. And if so, there goes your theory about verse 2 since you can't have verse 2 occurring without also having verse 1, 3, and 4 occurring.

 

[Quasar92]

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

.

In John 14:1-4, Jesus told His disciple He was going away to prepare a place for them/us; in His Father's house, that has many rooms; as recorded below:

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”


IMO, the Father's house Jesus referred to, is the New Jerusalem documented in Rev.21. Indeed, a very large "house," as a 1,500 mile cube. The future eternal home for all of us who belong to Jesus, following His 1,000 year reign here on earth and the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15.


Quasar92

 

[DavidPT]

In John 14:1-4, Jesus told His disciple He was going away to prepare a place for them/us; in His Father's house, that has many rooms; as recorded below:

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”


IMO, the Father's house Jesus referred to, is the New Jerusalem documented in Rev.21. Indeed, a very large "house," as a 1,500 mile cube. The future eternal home for all of us who belong to Jesus, following His 1,000 year reign here on earth and the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15.


Quasar92

You are correct to conclude that John 14:1-4 connects with the new Jerusalem. That are my thoughts as well. The timing of it though, I don't tend to agree with you about.

 

[DavidPT]

When does the new or heavenly Jerusalem arrive?

My best guess would be that it arrives with the 2nd coming. The parable in Luke 19 indicates Jesus leaves for awhile and receives a kingdom while away, and returns after having received the kingdom. There's only one kingdom involved in this, that being the everlasting kingdom. Since the NJ will be eternal, and that the everlasting kingdom is eternal, shouldn't take much to figure out that the NJ is connected with the everlasting kingdom, or that perhaps the NJ is meaning the kingdom itself.

 

[BABerean2]

The future eternal home for all of us who belong to Jesus, following His 1,000 year reign here on earth and the GWTJ of Rev.20:11-15.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Dave Watchman]

My best guess would be that it arrives with the 2nd coming. The parable in Luke 19 indicates Jesus leaves for awhile and receives a kingdom while away, and returns after having received the kingdom. There's only one kingdom involved in this, that being the everlasting kingdom. Since the NJ will be eternal, and that the everlasting kingdom is eternal, shouldn't take much to figure out that the NJ is connected with the everlasting kingdom, or that perhaps the NJ is meaning the kingdom itself.

It can't.

It can't arrive until after the thousand years are finished:

"Even Jesus: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of his holy prophets which have been since the world began.​

Heaven must recieve Him until the time comes to restore ALL THINGS.

When does the time come to "restore all things"?

All the way down in Rev 21.5, after the thousand years are finished:

"And he who was seated on the throne said,
“Behold, I am making all things new.”
Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”​

This is why Jesus went to prepare a place for us. So that He could come back here, and take us to where He is. The thing that we call the "second coming", is really a second "visitation".

Don't believe it?

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.​

Those who pierced Him won't live again until after the thousand years are finished. Every "eye", will not be opened again until AFTER the thousand years are finished when:

"The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed, and the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

 

[BABerean2]

Those who pierced Him won't live again until after the thousand years are finished.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Quasar92]

My best guess would be that it arrives with the 2nd coming. The parable in Luke 19 indicates Jesus leaves for awhile and receives a kingdom while away, and returns after having received the kingdom. There's only one kingdom involved in this, that being the everlasting kingdom. Since the NJ will be eternal, and that the everlasting kingdom is eternal, shouldn't take much to figure out that the NJ is connected with the everlasting kingdom, or that perhaps the NJ is meaning the kingdom itself.

The New Jerusalem is not documented as existing during the present heaven and earth - because they are going to be destroyed/pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and Rev.21:1. But rather, it will not have all the rooms prepared in it by Jesus [as recorded in Jn.14:2-3], until all believers beside those from the raptured Church have been accounted for. Such as the tribulation martyrs of Rev.20:4 and 6 and everyone who will be saved during Jesus 1,000 year reign on the earth, as recorded in Rev.20:6.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

Nothing posted in the above has a single thing to do with the New Jerusalem.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The New Jerusalem is not documented as existing during the present heaven and earth

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Present tense during the first century.
.