The Apostasy is here now.
The Reformers would be spinning in their graves if they could see how modern evangelicals are embracing the ecumenical movement...
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New Jerusalem?
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The Apostasy is here now.
The Reformers would be spinning in their graves if they could see how modern evangelicals are embracing the ecumenical movement...
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Re. 2 Thess. 2:3
If as many "esteemed theologians" as I've identified (with more to come) were deceived over their lifetimes, then your list of names is more a list of fools than a list of esteemed theologians.
Therefore anyone removed from that list will be more than pleased and relieved.
And here's another name to remove:
Alva J. McClain
“The Apostasy of the Church
Without designating a specific time table, the Apostle Paul warns of a “falling away” from the faith (2 Tim 4:1) that will lead to a heeding of deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons (I Tim 4:2) Paul simply says it will occur in the “later times” and produce hypocrisy and a searing of the conscience. This apostasy will be religious and moral in nature (II Tim 3:1-7) and will happen prior to the rapture of the Church and before the revelation of the son of destruction, the Antichrist (II Thess. 2:1-5). Paul further teaches that the seeds of apostasy are present in the Church but they will also completely mature in the last days, which he describes as “difficult times” (II Tim. 3:1).”
Alva J McClain School of Theology Doctrinal Statement"
Apostasy happens separately from and prior to the rapture.
The continued inclusion of the name of Alva J. McClain in your list of names is a further fraud.
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With your pristine knowledge of eschatology, pre-empting that of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, who originated and taught it, where is the Scriptural based argument you have to refute them, that refute your clams? It is my consi8dered opinion, after all the time it has taken to squeeze it out of you, that you are unable to provide any!
The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church:
Mt.24:31:
[/B] And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.
Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].
The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.
1 Thess.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.
"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.
"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.
Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.
"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.
"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.
2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].
The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.
In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.
Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.'Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of verse 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].
Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.
"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.
The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."
The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:
In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].
The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.
The pre-trib rapture of the Church views posted above fully endorsed by the following:
1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.
Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.
From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre
wrath" or post-trib rapture tau
Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!
The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf
Quasar92
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Who of those believe that 2 Thess. 2:3 refers to rapture?
Here's another exceptionally "esteemed theologian" who didn't buy it.
John F. Walvoord
"The Thessalonian Epistles
Chapter 8 The Revelation of the Man of Sin
Two things are mentioned in verse 3 as necessarily occurring before the Day of the Lord and the time of judgment can begin. The first thing that is mentioned is “the falling away,” and the word translated literally is “the apostasy,” which means a falling away or a departure in a doctrinal sense. Our English word apostasy comes from the very Greek word used here. Paul is writing them, then, that this Day of the Lord cannot come until there is a widespread departure from the true faith in God. Some have understood this “departure” to be the departure of the church itself—that is, the rapture. If so, it would definitely place the rapture before the tribulation. Most expositors have understood it as doctrinal departure, that is, apostasy.
At the time 2 Thessalonians was written there were, no doubt, some errors in the church, but there was no apostasy in the ordinary sense of the term. The churches were still true to the Lord. Paul is declaring that the Day of the Lord cannot come until there is a departure from the faith first. The Scriptures speak often of this coming apostasy."
The continued inclusion of the name of John F. Walvoord in your list of names of those whom you claim espouse 2 Thess. 2:3 as rapture is a blatant fraud.
Of course, the opportunity to provide a revised eviscerated list always exists.
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Post #225 thoroughly refutes you. The late Dr. John Walvoord was a devout believer in the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church and former President of Dallas Theological Seminary.
Where is your Scriptural proof the pre-trib rapture of the Church does not exist?
Quasar92
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Bro. Walvoord thoroughly refutes you on 2 Thess. 2:3:
"Paul is declaring that the Day of the Lord cannot come until there is a departure from the faith first. The Scriptures speak often of this coming apostasy."
See his word "departure"? See his words "from the faith"? See his word "apostasy"?
He was fully aware of the myth of apostasia as rapture, and rejected it.
He wasn't deceived by it in the least.
He should be removed from your fraud list.
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Show any Bible with the above translation you claim. 2 Thess.2:3 DOES NOT say that. '...from the faith," is an ad lib from the Biblical text!
2 Thess.2:3 "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."
Show me anywhere of anything I have posted in disagreement with Dr. Walvoord!
Quasar92
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Yes, it's Bro. Walvoord's ad lib. Try to read more carefully.
And he's repudiating apostasia as rapture.
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I am fully aware of what you wrote in post #228, which I have refuted in #229. Your attempt to make Dr. Walvoord something other than a devout believer in the pre-trib rapture of the Church, is a joke. FYI, I was reading long before you were ever thought of! Capiche!
Quasar92
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You've misplaced your spectacles again. Just a reminder -- we're discussing 2 Thess. 2:3.
I was merely quoting Bro. Walvoord. You haven't refuted him. He's refuted you.
He devoutly disbelieves that apostasia means rapture.
Time for another visit to the optometrist?
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Dr. Walvoord HAS NOT refuted me! As I previously told you, show me anything I have written that disagree with his beliefs! FYI, understanding what you read, is more important than the dimple procedure of reading! Capiche! Review the following about Dr. Walvoord:
The comprehensive sweep of the Bible, as it looks at history from God' s point of view and then presents the glorious future that is awaiting the child of God, gives the Christian a life of meaningful activity, a system of values that transcends the materialism of our day, and a glorious hope in a world where there is much happiness.[1]
- John F. Walvoord
On December 20, 2002 one of the giants of the church went home to be with the Lord. John F. Walvoord, theologian, writer, and teacher, seminary president, and defender of dispensational pretribulational premillennialism passed from our midst. He was 92 years old. It would not be an overstatement to say that Dr. Walvoord was the foremost proponent of pretribulationism and one of the world' s leading interpreters of Bible prophecy. We will miss him! However, as giants are prone to do, he has left behind a great legacy.
Dr. Walvoord came to Dallas Seminary in 1931 as a student and remained there until his death in 2002. Over 70 years at a single institution must be some kind of a record! Virtually every one who has ever gone through Dallas Seminary has brushed shoulders with John Walvoord. I was privileged to have learned eschatology in the late 1970s under his tutelage while a student at the Seminary.
Eschatological Theologian
In the eschatology (study of last things) class that I took from Dr. Walvoord, he gave us a handout the first day of about 278 questions on the subject. (I made the mistake of lending my copy out and never saw it again.) He told us that if we could answer all of those questions, then we would know something about eschatology. The class consisted of him lecturing through all of those questions, without using any notes other than his Bible. Dr. Walvoord was such a clear and straightforward professor. He knew what all the views on any issue were and presented them fairly before he would turn his attention toward providing a biblically accurate and incisive critique. He handled the most pressing questions with ease and biblical clarity, which produced convincing results. Students in my class often competed with one another in an effort to ask a question that Dr. Walvoord was unfamiliar with or would make him look bad. They never succeeded.
I always sat on the front row of his class, right in front of his lectern, because I liked being close to Dr. Walvoord, and, more importantly, because I tape recorded his classes. I have listened to his lectures many times over the years and am always amazed at his grasp of the theology of God' s Word. As a theologian he could correlate all the facts, synthesize them into theology, and show anyone the implications of his own views and where others went astray. As a student, I never dreamed that later I would have the privilege of speaking at about a dozen conferences with Dr. Walvoord. Usually there would be a time of questions and answers from the audience at these conferences. I would often defer to my former teacher in these situations because I would be just as interested in his answer as the questioner.
Why The Rapture Matters
I once heard Dr. Walvoord say that earlier in his career he focused upon broader prophetic concerns, like premillennialism, postmillennialism and amillennialism. However, over time and after much thought and discussion he realized that the same hermeneutical, exegetical and theological issues were involved in the rapture question. He came to believe that when one made a consistent application of interpretative methods, exegesis of Scripture and theological thought, there were only two consistent positions: amillennialism and pretibulational premillennialism. This is why, by the 1950s, Dr. Walvoord started focusing his attention upon the rapture question.
Of course, he believed the New Testament taught pretribulationism, but he also saw that the pre-trib rapture doctrine formed the first line of defense for premillennialism as well. He believed that when one abandoned pretribulationism, that individual was on a slippery slop toward the eschatological valley of allegoricalism known as amillennialism. He believed that consistent literal interpretation led to pretribulationism. Any departure from pretribulationism (for example mid-trib or post-trib) must involve some degree of allegorical interpretation. I heard him say that if you are going to allegorize at all then you might as well allegorize everything and become a consistent allegorizer by adopting amillennialism and be done with it. Dr. Walvoord' s keen theological mind saw where things led.
Dr. Walvoord was asked a few years ago " what do you predict will be the most significant theological issues over the next ten years?" His answer included the following: " the hermeneutical problem of not interpreting the Bible literally, especially the prophetic areas. The church today is engulfed in the idea that one cannot interpret prophecy literally." [2] Such is the trend almost ten years later. Today too many evangelicals want to blend literal and non-literal hermeneutics. According to Dr. Walvoord, it cannot be legitimately done, without producing a confused and contradictory mix of eschatology.
A Single Type of Pretribulationism
Another of Dr. Walvoord' s insights includes the observation that there is a single kind of approach to developing and defending pretribulationism. What does he mean? When it comes to pre-trib rationale, there are not multiple systems that have reached the same conclusion- pretribulationism. In other words, all pretribulationists use the same hermeneutic, generally the same exegesis and theologically the same thought process in arriving at pretribulationism. Dr. Walvoord believed that this detail hints at the fact that pretribulationism is likely what the Bible teaches.
On the other hand, posttribulationism has four distinct ways in which they argue for their belief. Dr. Walvoord use to say that if any single one of these four approaches were true, then it would mean that the other three systems were wrong and would contradict the form of posttribulationism that was posited as true. In other words, there could be incorrect views of posttribulationism, even if the view was posited as being correct. While there is only a single form of pretribulationism, which if true, would make sense since the Bible teaches a single view on any issue.
Four Kinds of Posttribulationism
Dr. Walvoord has classified the four kinds of posttribulationism as classical, semi-classical, futuristic and dispensational.[3] " In the last century a number of varieties of posttribulationism have emerged, some of them quite recent in their major tenets," declares Dr. Walvoord. " In general, they cover the gamut of the possibilities." [4] Note the following breakout by Dr. Walvoord:
1) Classic Posttribulationism- " J. Barton Payne, in his The Imminent Appearing of Christ,[5] advocates a return to what he says was the position of the early church, that is, a premillennial and posttribulational point of view which spiritualizes the tribulation and identifies it with the contemporary problems of Christianity. Comparatively few have followed Payne, however, though a tendency to spiritualize the period of tribulation is a general characteristic of posttribulationism." [6]
2) Semi-Classic Posttribulationism- " Alexander Reese, in his The Approaching Advent of Christ,[7] presents the most comprehensive defense of posttribulationism." [8] " He offers evidence that the resurrection of the church occurs at the same time as the resurrection of Revelation 20. Major emphasis is placed on terms like ' appearing,' ' the day,' ' the end,' and ' revelation' as technical terms that relate the rapture to the second coming as the terminus of the present age. Reese's arguments have not been surpassed by other posttribulationists, but later writers offer other approaches." [9]
" All the views previously mentioned consider the church already in the tribulation and identify the trials of the church through the centuries as the fulfillment of prophecies of a time of trouble preceding the second advent of Christ." [10]
3) Futuristic Posttribulationism- " George Ladd whose work, The Blessed Hope,[11] promotes the view that the great tribulation is still future. While other views of posttribulationism could conceivably be harmonized with the idea that Christ could return any moment, Ladd considers it inevitable that at least a seven-year period (described in Dan. 9:27) separates the church today from the rapture and the second advent of Christ which are aspects of the same event. Although Ladd's argument builds largely on the fact of the history of the doctrine and extols posttribulationism as the norm for orthodoxy through the centuries, he introduces a new realism into the picture in adopting a literal future tribulation. His views have somewhat been qualified by his later writings, but in general he seems to retain a futuristic view of the great tribulation with its corresponding doctrine that Christ's return could not be any day, but that it can only follow the years required to fulfill prophecies relating to the tribulation." [12]
4 Dispensational Posttribulationism- " Robert Gundry in his work, The Church and the Tribulation.[13] Gundry, following the lead of many premillenarians, distinguishes Israel and the church as separate entities and attempts a literal interpretation of many of the prophecies that deal with the endtimes. In advancing his theory he refutes most of the posttribulationists who have preceded him. Working with these premises, he endeavors to establish a new doctrine of posttribulationism which he tries to harmonize with a literal interpretation of prophecy." [14]
" Gundry's work poses a number of theological problems both for other posttribulationists and for contemporary pretribulationists. Because his arguments, in the main, are new and establish a new form of posttribulationism never advanced before, his work is a milestone in the variety of interpretations which have characterized posttribulationism through the centuries and creates further need for study of posttribulationism in the history of the church." [15]
It is interesting to take note of Dr. Walvoord' s classification of differing types of posttribulationism in light of the often made claims that pretribulationism is of recent vintage (around 1830). With the death of Payne in the 1970s, no one of significance even holds his classical view of posttribulationism. The semi-classical view of Reese is rarely held as well. Both of the views require the historicist view of prophecy, which almost no one holds to apart from Seventh-Day Adventist and Mormon influence. This means that the last two forms of posttribulationism, which are views that almost all premillennial posttribulationists advocate today, were developed after pretribulational futurism came on the scene. This means that the systematic approach of virtually all premillennial posttribulationism is newer than pretribulationism. This is a fact little understood in premillennial posttribulational circles. This should be a cause for pause and reflection on their part before suggesting that there is a problem with the history of pretribulationism.
Conclusion
The Walvoord legacy is one of hope- Blessed Hope![16] He used his considerable skills and long life to help believers better understand God' s plan for history and for the individual Christian. Over the years as I have spoken at Bible prophecy conferences across America, I have had a number of people come up to me and tell me that Dr. Walvoord had been their pastor at Rosen Heights Presbyterian Church in Fort Worth, Texas. They have all said that Dr. Walvoord use to tell them (this was in the 1930s and 40s) that he would live to see the rapture. Obviously he did not make it. But John F. Walvoord will certainly be a recipient of the crown of righteousness that will be handed out at the judgment seat of Christ. " In the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing." (2 Tim. 4:8) I can' t wait to see him at that awards ceremony. Maranatha!
By: Thomas Ice
Quasar92
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You have a lot to say for someone who has deliberately ignored my challenge for you to field your claims there is no pre-trib rapture of the church. Which inclues m2 Thess.2:3 and its supporting verse #7! Indicative that you lost your glasses!
Quasar92
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So you agree with him that 2 Thess. 2:3 refers to departure from the faith, i.e. apostasy, not rapture?
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That's not what he said! He said the apostasy comes before the departure. Which is the very scenario at this time. All that is left, is for the appearing of Christ, to take all of us who belong to Him, to heaven with Him, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess,4:16-17; 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Dr. Walvoord and I are in complete agreement.
Quasar92
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Yeah. And what departure is that? Put those spectacles on, and I quote:
"Departure from the faith". Which he elaborates on as "this coming apostasy."
Please make that appointment with your optometrist ASAP.
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Dr. Walvoord never denied the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, as you do! You've lost your glasses, as I have been waiting for a very long time for you to attempt composing your belief there will not be any pre-trib rapture of the Church. You have ducked and dodged the issue long enough. Dr. Walvoord, who fully endorses the pre-trib rapture of the Church, refutes your views.
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