New Jerusalem?

Quasar92 said:

Which has nothing whatever to do with 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:1-8.


Quasar92

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Paul in 2 Thess. 2 was warning of the imminent emergence of the apostate papacy. The Reformers confirmed it more than 1000 years later.

Markwsmith2020 said:

When does the new or heavenly Jerusalem arrive?

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Hi mark,

Someone has probably given you this answer already. I'm not going to read through 5 pages of posts.

The new Jerusalem, according to the Scriptures comes after the day of God's judgment. It comes down from heaven dressed as a bride to be the place where God's people will live for eternity. Never needing the light of the sun or moon for God will be it's light. There will be 12 gates around the city and within the walls of that city, the people will be God's people and God will be their God.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

jgr said:

Paul in 2 Thess. 2 was warning of the imminent emergence of the apostate papacy. The Reformers confirmed it more than 1000 years later.

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2 Thess.2 was Paul's clarification and amplification to the Thessalonian Church issues pertaining to the coming pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. there is nothing whatever in it pertaining to the papacy.


Quasar92

Quasar92 said:

2 Thess.2 was Paul's clarification and amplification to the Thessalonian Church issues pertaining to the coming pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. there is nothing whatever in it pertaining to the papacy.


Quasar92

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Have you ever heard of the Reformation?
We are commemorating the 500th anniversary this year.

Do you know anything about the Council of Trent and the Counter-Reformation?

.

BABerean2 said:

Have you ever heard of the Reformation?
We are commemorating the 500th anniversary this year.

Do you know anything about the Council of Trent and the Counter-Reformation?

.

Click to expand...

Which has little to nothing, to do with the interpretation of Biblical prophecy, as to what I was doing, you contributed the above to.


Quasar92

Quasar92 said:

Which has little to nothing, to do with the interpretation of Biblical prophecy, as to what I was doing, you contributed the above to.


Quasar92

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You've echoed your prophetic godfather accurately:

"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."
John Nelson Darby, 1839

Ever heard of Lacunza, Ribera, and the Jesuits?

They're Darby's prophetic godfathers from the apostate papacy.

That's quite a lineage.

Quasar92 said:

Which has little to nothing, to do with the interpretation of Biblical prophecy, as to what I was doing, you contributed the above to.


Quasar92

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Your "Full-Futurist" interpretation comes from the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, and therefore it has everything to do with the Counter-Reformation.

.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Lol, I didn't say I don't want people to fund it, I said no one but me is. So the PayPal link is there in hope.

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OK thanks for the clarification

Quasar92 said:

2 Thess.2 was Paul's clarification and amplification to the Thessalonian Church issues pertaining to the coming pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. there is nothing whatever in it pertaining to the papacy.


Quasar92

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Your theology is founded in the Jesuit teaching of the Counter Reformation. Which Darby then Scofield amplified using the vision of the Fox sisters.

YOu need to study the history of your theology.

I did and had to change my understanding 39 years ago I pray that you will.

Quasar92 said:

Which has little to nothing, to do with the interpretation of Biblical prophecy, as to what I was doing, you contributed the above to.


Quasar92

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Has everything to do with it

Quasar92 said:

It hasn't. It' a long way off yet. By the following sequence of events: The rapture of the Church; the seven year tribulation; Jesus second coming to the earth; the first resurrection; Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth; the Great White Throne Judgment; then the present heaven and earth pass away and God provides a new heaven and earth, recorded in Rev.21:1. [I have purposely left out some of the details]


Quasar92

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Your sequence is not biblical
1- "The rapture of the Church"
This happens at the first ressurection there is not a secret rapture

2-"the seven year tribulation"
Not biblical no where to be found in the bible execept in Scofields notes.

3- "Jesus second coming to the earth"
Jesus does not touch this earth until after the 1000 years
This happens after the thousand years when New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven

4-"the first resurrection"
Jesus comes in the clouds and the dead in Christ are risen from thier sleep and we which are alive are caught up to him, those left behind are put to sleep by his Glory till the secon ressurection.

5-"Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth"
Not so. Jesus takes the first ressuration to heaven with him and they reigh in heaven for a thousand years.

6-the Great White Throne Judgment
This is going on right now it started at the end of the 2300 day prophecy in 1844. "Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"

7- "then the present heaven and earth pass away"
This happens at the first ressurection when Jesus comes for his people

8-"and God provides a new heaven and earth,"
this follows after Rev 20 14 & 15 after the wicked and satan are consumed.

Here is the proper sequence
Great White Throne Judgement
First resurrection taken to Heaven with the Lord
1000 years in Hevean
New Jerusalem comes to earth
Second resurrection
Wicked consumed
New Heavens and Earth created
We reign with Jesus on the New Earth for Eternity

No one is immortal except God till the first resurrection

Original Happy Camper said:

Your sequence is not biblical
1- "The rapture of the Church"
This happens at the first ressurection there is not a secret rapture

2-"the seven year tribulation"
Not biblical no where to be found in the bible execept in Scofields notes.

3- "Jesus second coming to the earth"
Jesus does not touch this earth until after the 1000 years
This happens after the thousand years when New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven

4-"the first resurrection"
Jesus comes in the clouds and the dead in Christ are risen from thier sleep and we which are alive are caught up to him, those left behind are put to sleep by his Glory till the secon ressurection.

5-"Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth"
Not so. Jesus takes the first ressuration to heaven with him and they reigh in heaven for a thousand years.

6-the Great White Throne Judgment
This is going on right now it started at the end of the 2300 day prophecy in 1844. "Then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"

7- "then the present heaven and earth pass away"
This happens at the first ressurection when Jesus comes for his people

8-"and God provides a new heaven and earth,"
this follows after Rev 20 14 & 15 after the wicked and satan are consumed.

Here is the proper sequence
Great White Throne Judgement
First resurrection taken to Heaven with the Lord
1000 years in Hevean
New Jerusalem comes to earth
Second resurrection
Wicked consumed
New Heavens and Earth created
We reign with Jesus on the New Earth for Eternity

No one is immortal except God till the first resurrection

Click to expand...

By what recognized Christian authority do you arrive at the above views? And where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible? Review the following Biblical chronological order of end time events:

The chronological order of end time events:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.



Quasar92

jgr said:

You've echoed your prophetic godfather accurately:

"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."
John Nelson Darby, 1839

Ever heard of Lacunza, Ribera, and the Jesuits?

They're Darby's prophetic godfathers from the apostate papacy.

That's quite a lineage.

Click to expand...

Show me where John Darby has anything at all to do with the original teachings of the pre-trib rapture.

The original teachers of the pre-trib rapture of the Church was Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as recorded in the following link. As such, you can cut out using John Darby asa crutch to try supporting your arguments.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

Original Happy Camper said:

Has everything to do with it

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Then provide your Scriptura support to verify your meaningless opinion, if you think so.


Quasar92

Original Happy Camper said:

Your theology is founded in the Jesuit teaching of the Counter Reformation. Which Darby then Scofield amplified using the vision of the Fox sisters.

YOu need to study the history of your theology.

I did and had to change my understanding 39 years ago I pray that you will.

Click to expand...

What I teach comes directly from the Bible you try making Jesuit teachings out of. You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about The following is an example of what refutes you:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

BABerean2 said:

Your "Full-Futurist" interpretation comes from the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, and therefore it has everything to do with the Counter-Reformation.

.

Click to expand...

May I suggest to you that you discontinue your false allegations against me and where my teachings come from. They come directly from the Bible, and I challenge you to prove otherwise or desist from commenting on what I post!


Quasar92

Quasar92 said:

Show me where John Darby has anything at all to do with the original teachings of the pre-trib rapture.

The original teachers of the pre-trib rapture of the Church was Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, as recorded in the following link. As such, you can cut out using John Darby asa crutch to try supporting your arguments.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

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Ribera laid the foundation. Lacunza built on it. Both were Jesuits espousing the same as what you claim is original NT doctrine. Both had ulterior agendas sanctioned by the apostate papacy. The Jesuits have been avowed foes of the true Christian Church ever since their formation in the 16th century.

You seem to be keeping close company with them.

Quasar92 said:

May I suggest to you that you discontinue your false allegations against me and where my teachings come from. They come directly from the Bible, and I challenge you to prove otherwise or desist from commenting on what I post!


Quasar92

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Here is your proof.

The source of Full-Futurism is found below.

It is one of the greatest deceptions in the history of the Church.


.

jgr said:

Ribera laid the foundation. Lacunza built on it. Both were Jesuits espousing the same as what you claim is original NT doctrine. Both had ulterior agendas sanctioned by the apostate papacy. The Jesuits have been avowed foes of the true Christian Church ever since their formation in the 16th century.

You seem to be keeping close company with them.

Click to expand...

The following link documents the original teachings for the pre-trib rapture of the Church, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, in the first of the four posts.

In the fourth of the four posts, is a listings of esteemed men of God, from every wqlk of Christian teaching, who fully endorse the three posts above it.

John Darby had nothing to do with the original teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, at the 19th century level of its origin. But rather, he restored its teachings from being held captive by the RCC teachings of Amillennialism for more than 1,600 years. Wgich deny the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth and the pre-trib rapture of the Church, the Bible clearly teaches.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...


Quasar92

BABerean2 said:

Here is your proof.

The source of Full-Futurism is found below.

It is one of the greatest deceptions in the history of the Church.

Click to expand...

Your above contribution to my quote you posted, I completely unrelated. You are again attempting to denigrate the material I post that comes directly from the Bible, into one of your man made labels. You didn't post a single view of mine your response is rebuking. The subject is about the New Jerusalem, as recorded in the following, directly from the Word of God, our Bible:

Rev.21:1 "Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”a for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’b or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”


Quasar92