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New Heavens and a New Earth??

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VictoryProcured

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The Dilemma:

2 Peter 3 is a passage that has caused a lot of confusion among pre-millennialists. Peter seems to speak of the burning of this present earth, and a "new heavens and a new earth," at the time of Christ's second coming. He speaks of the "Day of the Lord" coming "as a thief," in which the dissolution of the present earth and heaven will take place. He speaks of a "new heaven and new earth" in which righteousness dwells. This seems to follow immediately on the second coming in Peter's eschatology. Yet, Revelation speaks of a "new heaven and new earth" at the end of the Millennium, placing a 1,000 year interval between the second coming and the "new heavens and new earth."

The typical solution is to claim that the "Day of the Lord" is the entire Millennium. The burning be said to occur in the extreme end of the "Day of the Lord." But, such a view destroys Peter's whole point, that the Day of the Lord and the burning of the earth is threatening the scoffers who say, "where is the promise of His coming?"



There are 2 prominent issues that we must address:

1). What is the purpose of the earth's dissolution by fire?
2). When is this dissolution to take place? This last question is inextricably tied into the manner of the Lord's Second Advent!


The Foundations of the Earth will not be destroyed:

"Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever" (Psalm 104:5). Some versions render it "He established the earth upon its foundations,
So that it will not totter forever and ever." Totter means, "to refrain from moving out of place."


The Earth shall pass away, be destroyed, melted, and dissolved:

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up" (II Peter 3:10).

"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (II Peter 3:7).

"That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat" (II Peter 3:12).

"Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind" (Isaiah 65:17).

The Bible is not self-contradictory.....therefore we must interpret the Word of God with sound hermeneutics and with an revering grammatical exposit. The Bible declares the "foundations of the earth will never be removed i.e. destroyed." It also proclaims that this "earth shall pass away....be dissolved.....melt.....burn.....laid bare....destroyed...etc....."

This can be solved along with the above stated dilemma with a solid exposition of 2 Peter 3.

What is the purpose of the earth being destroyed by fire?

What is the premise by which the Lord will take flaming vengeance upon this world and cause the elements to melt in the heat of His fury?

".....in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thessalonians 1:8).


".....the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7), states the purpose of this present earth being destroyed by fire......judgment of the wicked!! To purify this earth of sin and unrighteousness!! Does that sound familiar???

"By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed" (2 Peter 3:6)

"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time" (Genesis 6:5).

"So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth" (Genesis 6:13).

God said He destroyed the earth at that time with water and Peter reiterates that same premise. We know that God did not create a new earth after He destroyed it with water.......to purged it from its present wickedness. The earth following the flood was the same earth, but a new earth in respects to its cleansing....in much the same way, God will purge this earth once again from its sin and wickedness, but will do so with a baptism of fire, instead of water. God will not create a brand new planet, but it will be a new earth in which righteousness shall dwell after its cleansing!! For the destruction of this earth and the fiery judment of the wicked upon the Second Advent of Christ are inextriably woven together!!

The foundations of this earth will never be removed (Psalm 104:5), but the surface of this world and all of its elements shall be destroyed just like in the flood of Noah, which Peter alludes to, "By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed" (2 Peter 3:6). There is no contextual premise by which we need to abandon the notion that the destruction of the earth by fire is in the same manner of the destruction of the earth by water in Noah's day!


When is this dissolution to take place?????


If you are a pre-millennialist, there are only a select few possibilities:

1). There is no literal 1,000 year reign of Christ known as the Millennium and the Post-Millennial and A-Millennial advocates have been right all along. That is to say, upon the second advent of Christ he immediately destroys the heavens and the earth and subsequently creates the new heavens and the new earth, followed immediately by the judgment of both righteous and unrighteous, and then the consignment of the eternal state of both are administered.

2). Upon the Second Advent of Christ He immediately destroys the heavens and the earth and immediately creates the new heaven and the new earth for us to dwell upon during the millennial reign.

3). The Day of the Lord extends throughout the entire millennial kingdom and the destruction of the present heavens and earth takes place followed by the creation of the new heavens and the new earth. And this event would take place at the very extreme end of the Day of the Lord, thus forcing a 1,000 year gap within 2 Peter 3:10, "But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief (1,000 year gap) the heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare"

4). The new heavens and new earth is meant to be taken in a figurative fashion and not in a literal sense. That is to say, God will not create an entirely new heavens and an entirely new earth, but will be a renovation of this present heavens and earth.

In what manner will the Lord return to earth to inaugurate His Millennial Reign? For, how you answer this questions weighs heavily upon the timing of the earth's dissolution.


"....This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven, in blazing fire with his powerful angels" (II Thessalonians 1:7).

"....but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God" (Hebrews 10:27).

"....let the fire reserved for your enemies consume them" (Isaiah 26:11).

"For behold, the Lord will come with fire and with His chariots, like a whirlwind, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by His sword the Lord will judge all flesh; and the slain of the Lord shall be many" (Isaiah 66:15-16).

"A fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns; the land is like the Garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; surely nothing shall escape them" (Joel 2:3).

"For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up" (Malachi 4:1).

".....in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thessalonians 1:8).

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up" (II Peter 3:10). What manner will the Lord return???? In the Day of the Lord as a "thief" suddenly upon the ungodly....."in which" this earth shall be destroyed.

There is no contextual nor Scriptural reason to abandon what the Bible clearly states here and that is when the Lord returns He does so in a manner of fiery destruction upon the ungodly and the sinfulness of this world! His judgment is immediate and pronounced! This judgment of destruction does not occur 1,000 years later; there is no Scriptural basis for such an allegation! It is only an assumption and/or a lack of hermeneutic proficiency!

It is quite obvious that when the Lord descends to earth to usher in His Millennial Reign, He does so in a manner of pure fury! The Lord returns in flaming vengeance to destroy the wicked and unrighteous of this world. In doing so, this earth shall be completely devoured by His Righteous Fire and dissolved by His heat of vengeance! The judgment of the wicked and the destruction of this earth are inextricably woven together! When the Lord returns He shall devour this earth with His fire and purge this world of its unrighteousness, much in the days of Noah! The earth that shall emerged from the ashes of His flaming passion shall be a new earth in respects to its thorough cleansing!
There will be no brand new created planet, but it shall be this same earth, but a purged and cleansed earth after proceeding through the refiners fire of righteousness! I believe that Scripture clearly portrays this exposition from the passages I have share with you.

Remember, Peter's terminology regarding the flood was total destruction of the earth, just like God said in Genesis, followed by a new heaven and a new earth. Here Peter used precisely the same type of language to describe the day of destruction of the scoffers by fire. Peter was saying that the earth will not be totally destroyed (for Psalm 104:5 says that will never happen) any more than it was totally destroyed by the flood. Rather, he was borrowing from Old Testament terminology where purging fire and destruction accompanies the Second Coming of Christ and the Day of the Lord.

Again, remember what Peter said in verses 1,2 that he was REMINDING them of what they already knew from the Old Testament prophets. That they were already familiar with this is also evident in his comments that his readers were presently looking for a new heaven and a new earth in verses 13,14. This strongly implies Peter was relying heavily upon Old Testament prophecy, and was NOT given them new revelation previously unknown to his readers.

One contextual reason why this destruction of the earth cannot take place after the millennium is found in 2 Peter 3:3-4 where scoffers come and say "where is the promise of His coming?" The wicked scoff and will be overtaken suddenly by the day of fiery judgment....if it happened after the millennium, 1,000 years later....??? what's the point? the scoffers are long gone, Christ has returned, righteousness is reigning??? The scoffers can only be made foolish to their question of His coming AT HIS COMING, not AFTER HIS COMING!! And their fiery judgment can occur AT HIS COMING, not AFTER HIS COMING!! For the fiery judgment of the wicked and the destruction of this earth are one and the same event!! "By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men" (2 Peter 3:7)!!!



Just an added note:

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the Lord, so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me says the Lord. And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me, their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind" (Isaiah 66:22-24).

How could the dead bodies of the unrighteous being lying around if this new earth is an entirely newly created planet???? The answer is obvious, because it is the same earth, an earth that has been purged by fire, purged from all the sin and unrighteousness; exactly in the same manner that God purged all the sin and unrighteousness with the flood when He destroyed the earth at that time!!! There is no contextual premise by which we need to abandon the notion that the destruction of the earth by fire is in the same manner of the destruction of the earth by water in Noah's day!

Scrolling back to the 4 options of when this dissolution takes place:

1). I am a pre-millennialist and this particular email is not set about to support this premise of pre-millennialism. So, just for the sake of making this even longer, that just content that pre-millennialim is the true existing foundation.

2). This closely resembles what Scriputure supports, the only factor contrary to it is that God will not literally create an entirely brand new planet.

3). I believe from Scriptural support and the preceding defense.....the Day of the Lord cannot extend throughout the Millennial Reign.

4). The Scriptural support of this view I believe is quite obvious and supporting from internal evidence of Peter, Paul, and God from the days of Noah!

May the love of God reign in your hearts!!

Only By His Grace,

Roger
 

LittleLambofJesus

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Just an added note:

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the Lord, so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me says the Lord. And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me, their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind" (Isaiah 66:22-24).

How could the dead bodies of the unrighteous being lying around if this new earth is an entirely newly created planet???? The answer is obvious, because it is the same earth, an earth that has been purged by fire, purged from all the sin and unrighteousness; exactly in the same manner that God purged all the sin and unrighteousness with the flood when He destroyed the earth at that time!!! There is no contextual premise by which we need to abandon the notion that the destruction of the earth by fire is in the same manner of the destruction of the earth by water in Noah's day!
Is that cleanup of the bodies before or after the millenium? I had heard somewhere that it took about 7 months or so to cleanup Jerusalem after the destruction and for the life of me, I cannot remember where I saw that. Anyone know? Peace.

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.
 
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inhisdebt

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I would disagree,
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Your statements assume that the day of the lord and the day of God are the same. I believe they are not. And rev seams to agree, Both appear to take place in simular manner however the magnitude is very differant.
Some of the old testiment referances to the millinium show that the sea is presant after the day of the lord. However all indications are that after the day of God (new heavens and new earth) the there is no more sea.
Note also that paul said that Jesus must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet the last of wich is death, then he will turn over the kingdom to the father, (God) note that victory over death is acheaved on the day of the lord but the destruction of death is not obtained untill after the mellinial reign just before the new heavens and new earth statements.
Thus i surmise that the day of the lord begins the millinial reign and it is fineshed when he turns it over to the father on the day of God. Both mentioned by peter however they accur a thousand years appart.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Is that cleanup of the bodies before or after the millenium? I had heard somewhere that it took about 7 months or so to cleanup Jerusalem after the destruction and for the life of me, I cannot remember where I saw that. Anyone know? Peace.

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Temple of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Temple [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.
Some of the old testiment referances to the millinium show that the sea is presant after the day of the lord.
You believe it is a literal sea of water?:eek:
 
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ross3421

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VictoryProcured said:

1). There is no literal 1,000 year reign of Christ known as the Millennium and the Post-Millennial and A-Millennial advocates have been right all along. That is to say, upon the second advent of Christ he immediately destroys the heavens and the earth and subsequently creates the new heavens and the new earth, followed immediately by the judgment of both righteous and unrighteous, and then the consignment of the eternal state of both are administered.



Roger,

Good post. I agree with it except for the part of the 1000 year reign as I see # 1 as the correct answer. I will bump up my thread on the matter.

Notice that when the earth and the heavens are burned up so to are the works therein which is to represent judgement passed.

Mark.
 
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FreeinChrist

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inhisdebt said:
I would disagree,
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Your statements assume that the day of the lord and the day of God are the same. I believe they are not. And rev seams to agree, Both appear to take place in simular manner however the magnitude is very differant.
Some of the old testiment referances to the millinium show that the sea is presant after the day of the lord. However all indications are that after the day of God (new heavens and new earth) the there is no more sea.
Note also that paul said that Jesus must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet the last of wich is death, then he will turn over the kingdom to the father, (God) note that victory over death is acheaved on the day of the lord but the destruction of death is not obtained untill after the mellinial reign just before the new heavens and new earth statements.
Thus i surmise that the day of the lord begins the millinial reign and it is fineshed when he turns it over to the father on the day of God. Both mentioned by peter however they accur a thousand years appart.

I agree. Plus, as the vision given to John did not occur until 96 AD, meaning Peter didn't have the benefit of knowing Rev. 20, he was giving a general statement.

Now in regards to the "the sea", I believe that represents the nations. After the end of the millennium, after Satan's little season after he is out of the pit, there will be no more sea (nations) - just the Kingdom of God.
 
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inhisdebt

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LittleLambofJesus said:
You believe it is a literal sea of water?:eek:
In the context that those scriptures is given in yes, there are other places that it is mentioned in wich i do not. however it is quite possible it has an alagorical meaning as well. as a habit i choose a literal interpritation to stay on track and keep from being derailed, alagorical interpritations often can lead astray as there is no firm guidelines without a literal structure in scripture to support it
 
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Jesusmyfriend said:
You know most Christians have this idea that your natural body is leaving in the rapture. NO WAY, flesh and blood cannot enter into heaven. Your uncorrupted new spiritual body is what is raptured. Your natural body is put to death in less time than it takes to split an atom. That is why Jesus said where you see the eagle you will find the body also, the body as in his church. The word vulture was replaced by the word eagle because the greek word used for this means bird of prey, so they thought eagle was better. However when you consider what Jesus said vulture is the correct word. The dead natural bodies of Christians left behind because of rapture bring vultures not eagles. Scholars however thought eagle might be more palettable reading. When you are raptured you are put to death first. It happens so fast it is painless. The greek word for rapture as in the twinkling of an eye is the word atomos. Which means less time than it takes to split an atom. However your natural body is very dead when you leave the planet.


S.Paul says in 1Cor 6, 13: Food is for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will put an end to them together

Surely God in the new Heaven will create a new food, if it's as I think then God will change our body also.....
Maybe also He will cover our bodies as the flowers......etc....


:angel: :angel:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You believe it is a literal sea of water?:eek:
inhisdebt said:
In the context that those scriptures is given in yes, there are other places that it is mentioned in wich i do not. however it is quite possible it has an alagorical meaning as well. as a habit i choose a literal interpritation to stay on track and keep from being derailed, alagorical interpritations often can lead astray as there is no firm guidelines without a literal structure in scripture to support it
Any other views on the sea in revelation 21 being a literal "body of water"? I believe most of revelation is "alleghory" and follows Ezekiel and Danile very well and I am sure you do not view Daniel as "literal" do you?

[SIZE=+2] [/SIZE]Gala 4: 24 which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;
 
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