New Depth of Depravity: Book of Daniel

[bliz]

I didn't say I wanted to have a discussion about something I don't know. I said basically I value your opinion. I don't care to see it. The commercial upset me so badly I wish I had not had the misfortune of seeing it. You are the first person I've ever asked to give me a review of a television or movie that retorted with "uh,uh,uh Not til you've seen it first. Movie critics wouldn't stay in business very long if they would only share reviews with people who have seen the movie. I am basically willing to keep an open mind if a brother or sister in Christ want to share any redeeming value they find in this show. Right now I've got other things I would rather do with my time than be upset because they are representing Christ as mistreating one of His own.
You are a grownup. You feel free to watch any garbage you want but please don't accuse me of being close minded because something doesn't seem to pass the Phil 4:8 test.

Why would you want to hear my take on it? You have already decided that the show is garbage. You sound ready and willing to participate in a campaign against the show to potential advertisers, even though you have not seen it.

If you don't want to watch the show, fine. But to be ready to launch an attack on companies who advertise on the show, while the show is yet unseen, is simply irresponsible.

And how will you respond to a neighbor who says to you: "You go to church and know about God and stuff... I watched this show last night, is your God really like that?" We are to be in the world but not of it. It's very hard to redeem a culture when we are running away from it.

 

[CyberPaladin]

If you don't want to watch the show, fine. But to be ready to launch an attack on companies who advertise on the show, while the show is yet unseen, is simply irresponsible.

The commericals for the show give us clear indication of how bad the show is going to be and it's not irresponsible to launch on those mock our Lord and those that support them.

And how will you respond to a neighbor who says to you: "You go to church and know about God and stuff... I watched this show last night, is your God really like that?" We are to be in the world but not of it. It's very hard to redeem a culture when we are running away from it.

I have better question for you how do you redeem anyone if we take your suggestion and embrace the world's sin culture as our own?
There alot of things out there that we as Chirstians shouldn't particpate in we definetly be aware of them but that doesn't mean should embrace them.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Why would you want to hear my take on it? You have already decided that the show is garbage. You sound ready and willing to participate in a campaign against the show to potential advertisers, even though you have not seen it.

If you don't want to watch the show, fine. But to be ready to launch an attack on companies who advertise on the show, while the show is yet unseen, is simply irresponsible.

And how will you respond to a neighbor who says to you: "You go to church and know about God and stuff... I watched this show last night, is your God really like that?" We are to be in the world but not of it. It's very hard to redeem a culture when we are running away from it.

Yeah, maybe you should watch the Victoria's Secret Lingerie Modelling Contest show before you decide whether it is worth watching as well.

 

[thunderbyrd]

Bliz: i think you have a fair enough point. i think i might watch the 1st episode to see how Christ is potrayed. If i feel that it is objectionable, then i'll protest it. For myself, the commercial struck me very badly - i saw it as a network take-off on "Six Feet Under", a very perverse show, IMHO. I am very tired and disgusted with the whole "mainstreaming of homosexuality/lesbianism" phenomenon, that and a probable disrespectful potrayal of Christ was enough to draw my ire. But you're right, i should wait until i've seen it before i make total judgement. maybe it'll be OK. but if i was a gambling man...

 

[RenHoek]

The Jesus I know would never be sarcastic

Joh 8:7 -

When they persisted in questioning Him, He stood up and said to them, "The one without sin among you should be the first to throw a stone at her."

Matthew 8:

9 For I too am a man under authority, having soldiers under my command. I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes; and to another, 'Come!' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it." 10 Hearing this, Jesus was amazed and said to those following Him, "I assure you: I have not found anyone in Israel with so great a faith!

Matthew 23:13-33 – too much to post, but not unsarcastic



A bit biting and sarcastic. The ways He responded to the Pharisees was always a bit pointed and sarcastic too.

I have to assume that the copy writers for NBC are going to put their best foot forward on the show by the way they describe it.

Exactly the point. You assume. Controversy sells, so perhaps they are putting their worst foot forward…

You have already decided that the show is garbage. You sound ready and willing to participate in a campaign against the show to potential advertisers, even though you have not seen it.

And how will you respond to a neighbor who says to you: "You go to church and know about God and stuff... I watched this show last night, is your God really like that?" We are to be in the world but not of it. It's very hard to redeem a culture when we are running away from it.

I have to agree with this. I don’t think, as Christians, we can stick our heads in the sand to society. Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors why shouldn’t we. I would doubt, when He ate with them, that he did not listen to them but pontificate why they were all wrong. He would have listened, sympathized, and related to them in a way that they could understand. The pharisees of that day didn't like it either.

Mt 11:19 -

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."

I must agree that if we can use it as a conversation starter, we should at least understand what it is about. The only way to do that s to check it out. I am glad God does not judge me before He sees what I do.

 

[bliz]

I have better question for you how do you redeem anyone if we take your suggestion and embrace the world's sin culture as our own?
There alot of things out there that we as Chirstians shouldn't particpate in we definetly be aware of them but that doesn't mean should embrace them.

I'm sorry - I must have been posting in my sleep - I compleatly missed the post where I suggested embracing the world's sin culture.

I have said that before anyone throws rocks at the show, they should see it. I may end up on the front lines of the rock throwers; I don't know. I haven't seen it and neither has anyone else posting here.

I have also said that sometimes we can use examples from the culture that people are familiar to effecftivley witness to them. Gone are the days where everyone knows the Bible and Bible stories, has been to church or where there is a common cluture that almost all of society is part of. We are in a post-Christian era and our culture is incredibly diverse. Movies and TV remain one thing that a whole lot of the culture is familiar with.

Often I find nuggets of God's truth shinning through the muck of TV and movies, and when someone has seen that show, I can refer to it and we now have a point of reference. Even if they didn't see a particular episode, they will know the main characters.

I remember an episode of NYPD Blue (which I'm sure most of your good Christians avoided, I mean, once in awhile they'd show a naked rear end!) in which a corrections officer forgives a prisoner for a wrong done to him. He has every reason to be unforgiving and throw the full weight of the law at the guy, but he chooses to forgive. It was a powerful show. The show Rescue Me, again, which I'm sure most Christians avoided, also had Jesus appearing to the protagonist - a very pathetic, sinful New York firefighter who uses and abuses everyone and everything. Jesus has been coming to him and having conversations with him and when the guy's son is killed by a drunk driver, he is ready to literally murder the guy. For once friends and family are in agreement with him, even his father and his cop brpother are involved and at the last minute, our firefighter remembers things Jesus has been telling him, and he cannot do it - he lets the guy go.

Jesus told many stories of people doing the wrong thing - the prodigal son, the good Samaritan, 10 virgins, unmerciful servant, house on the rock, rich fool... If Jesus himself used stories that depicted wrong doing, why do we find such storytelling offensive? To be sure, Jesus was right there to make the point of the story... But that is exactly the role we can play when we talk to people! We can take the story told by the pagan and show the nugget of God's truth in there.

All of you who find that too difficult or too complicated or fear that you will get sucked in by shows and start to think like the world, PLEASE! Don't watch Daniel, or anything else on TV, for that matter. Get rid of your TVS, don't go to movies avoid all literature.

(I can assure you, I have not been corrupted by those quick glimpses of naked bottoms!)

 

[RenHoek]

yup, what she said

 

[RenHoek]

Just got this email


[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=+1]NBC Affiliate says "NO" to The Book of Daniel[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Other local affiliates bombarded with phone calls, having second thoughts about carrying the program.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1] Terre Haute, Indiana, NBC affiliate WTWO has become the first station to announce that it will not carry the anti-Christian program The Book of Daniel. We urge you to call your local NBC affiliate and ask them to join WTWO in not carrying the program. Please call today and ask others to call. The phone calls do make a difference![/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Click Here to read a review of the show by AFA's Ed Vitagliano, who has viewed the entire premiere episode of NBC's The Book of Daniel.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]AFA has also learned that NBC is having trouble securing sponsors for the program. It appears that NBC will be forced to fill the available ad spots with "distressed merchandise" ads which are sold at pennies on the dollar of the going rate, and with "make good" ads which bring in no money to the network.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Please call local companies which advertise on your NBC affiliate and ask the local advertisers in a nice way to cancel their advertising on the local affiliate if it carries the program.[/size][/font]



[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]It is time to make our voice heard at NBC that we will not long remain silent about their anti-Christian bigotry. Here is what NBC considers to be a positive portrayal of Christians and Christianity:

• The program's main characters include Daniel Webster, a drug-addicted Episcopal priest; his alcoholic wife; his son, a 23-year-old homosexual Republican; his daughter, a 16-year-old drug dealer; a 16-year-old adopted son who is having sex with the bishop's daughter; his lesbian secretary who is sleeping with his sister-in-law; and a very unconventional white-robed, bearded Jesus who talks to the priest.
• It is written by Jack Kenny, a practicing homosexual who describes himself as being "in Catholic recovery," and is interested in Buddhist teachings about reincarnation and isn't sure exactly how he defines God and/or Jesus. "I don't necessarily know that all the myth surrounding him (Jesus) is true," he said.

[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Finally, join nearly 500,000 individuals who have already emailed NBC about their anti-Christian bigotry. Click here to send your email. PLEASE FORWARD TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS! WE CAN WIN THIS BATTLE IF WE ALL WILL GET INVOLVED![/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Would you consider a small financial gift to help AFA continue this battle? Click here to help.[/size][/font]



[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Sincerely,[/size][/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Don[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman
American Family Association[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]P.S. Please forward this e-mail message to your family and friends![/size][/font]

 

[bliz]

Just got this email:
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]
It is time to make our voice heard at NBC that we will not long remain silent about their anti-Christian bigotry. Here is what NBC considers to be a positive portrayal of Christians and Christianity:[/size][/font]

• [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][size=-1]The program's main characters include Daniel Webster, a drug-addicted Episcopal priest; his alcoholic wife; his son, a 23-year-old homosexual Republican; his daughter, a 16-year-old drug dealer; a 16-year-old adopted son who is having sex with the bishop's daughter; his lesbian secretary who is sleeping with his sister-in-law; and a very unconventional white-robed, bearded Jesus who talks to the priest.[/size][/font]

First, I must say that "a very unconventional white-robed, bearded Jesus who talks to the priest" sounds like a very accurate description of the Jesus. He was clearly unconvnetional and I believe he wore robes of some color or other and probably sported a beard. He also talks to people, myself included. That description seems to me to be one Christians should embrace.

Second, we have a list of some of the characters in the show and brief descriptions of them. Something like:

Meet the Characters in the book The Bible

Moses, a murderer who hides in the desert and needs his brother to do his speaking for him

Rahab, a disloyal prostitute who helped spies against her city

Lot, a man who offered up his daughters to appease homosexuals who wanted him, and then later impregnated those daughters

Samson, this guy literally brought the house down - on top the Philistine rulers

Jael, a woman who pounded a tent stake into a man's head

But instead of being repulsed by these characters, you tell your children all about them, and want others to learn of them as well, and most of us read about them again and again.

This is the difference between the content of a story and it's point. We do not yet know what the TV show is going to say, what it's point will be, and, interesetingly, the Christian-media- zealots don't either! Insted they give us a description of the charcters, which is about as helpful as my description of the Bible characters. Quite accurate, you must admit, but it doesn't tell us anything about the Bible's purpose or what we can learn from reading about it.

I've read many postings from Christians on this site who have some interesting lives... former drug and alcohol use, and struggles to keep it in the past, gay and lesbian family members, incest, sexual abuse, adultry... All of this in one family is a little over the top, but hardly outisde of the realm of reality.

One more time: I am not defending the show. I haven't seen it yet so I could not possibly do so.

​

 

[bliz]

Well...

I really enjoyed watching The Book of Daniel!

The best part of it, the far and away best part, is when Daniel and Jesus get to talk. Wow! All of us should have such conversations throughout our days... wait! we can!

I was dissapointed in that any and all sexual encounters of any kind seem to be equally OK in the values of the show... the pastor and his wife (which was cool) but also everyone else without spouses of the opposit gender on the horizon... So far, in the first 2 hours, nothing questions the appropriatness or sinfulness of certain sexual encounters... but I have a feeling even that may come up for examination inj the future...

Anyone who saw the show and declared that it was "The Depth of Depravity" clearly has no idea exactly how depraved human beings can be, and obviously did not "get" the show.

The potential is there to be a major watercooler show, except that is airs on Fridays, but if it does, Christians would be smart to watch is when they can so they knowledgably participate in the discussion. To declare "The show is depraved! I won't watch it!" is to walk away from a tremendous opportinity.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

WHY do people get offended so easily? If people want to make it an peopel want to watch it...WHY protest? It is absolutely senseless to me. People are far too easily offended and EVERYONE of every ideology is ready to jump and scream and whine when they don't like something.

 

[RenHoek]

Well...

I really enjoyed watching The Book of Daniel!

The best part of it, the far and away best part, is when Daniel and Jesus get to talk. Wow! All of us should have such conversations throughout our days... wait! we can!

I was dissapointed in that any and all sexual encounters of any kind seem to be equally OK in the values of the show... the pastor and his wife (which was cool) but also everyone else without spouses of the opposit gender on the horizon... So far, in the first 2 hours, nothing questions the appropriatness or sinfulness of certain sexual encounters... but I have a feeling even that may come up for examination inj the future...

Anyone who saw the show and declared that it was "The Depth of Depravity" clearly has no idea exactly how depraved human beings can be, and obviously did not "get" the show.

The potential is there to be a major watercooler show, except that is airs on Fridays, but if it does, Christians would be smart to watch is when they can so they knowledgably participate in the discussion. To declare "The show is depraved! I won't watch it!" is to walk away from a tremendous opportinity.

I must agree. It was nowhere near what I thought it would be. It was far to sensational for my taste, but it was not bad.



I found it interesting how Pseudo-Jesus got on the priest about the drugs, but then left him to his own devices after a bit. I think this is quite accurate. God warns and warns, then lets us suffer the consequences.



I also liked the repentance scene with the pastor who used the Lords name in vain. There were earthly consequences when the person died and the pastor felt bad, but Pseudo-Jesus was as understanding as the true Jesus of the gospels.



The only problem I had was with all the homosexuality. I just don’t understand how 1% of the population gets so much airtime. I also think it helps broach the subject of what you do if your children are lead astray in such a manner. How do you balance Christ’s love vs. tolerance of sin.

 

[Pointman7]

I personnally believe there isn't enough quality programming to make television worth my time or money. Television did nothing but waste my life and allow me to compromise my morals. Even the news was peppered with pornographic commercials.

Good words!

 

[bliz]

What channel do you watch the news on??? Commercials on the news tend to feature cars, financial services companies and the Aflac duck... to be sure, the duck is usually naked... but pornographic?

 

[Bunnaroo]

I went ahead and watched it. Okay, I got interested when my wife turned it on, but still...

I am very disappointed with the portrayla of homosexuals as normal people, as opposed to comedic element. I don't find that entertaining, nor do I want The Cub absorbing that message. That alone kills the show for me.

However, here's a few other thoughts:

* NBC put it on Friday night. I have two words for any show that is placed on Friday Night: Death Sentence. Friday night has low viewership, since people go out to play on Friday night!

*There were very few sponsors. Most of the commercials were for NBC programs, as well as a few "music videos" advertising their coverage of the Winter Olympics.

* The writing is horrible. I have seen better written series from the sixties. (Am I the only one that thought it was a cheap rip-off of Seventh Heaven, sans family entertainment value?)

* It is quite possibly not my taste. I mean, I prefer the original CSI and House. I cannot defend them as great Christian entertainment, either.

 

[RenHoek]

* The writing is horrible.

 

[Ave Maria]

Here's some information to help you all protest:

http://www.afa.net/petitions/issuedetail.asp?id=175

 

[soblessed53]

The commericals for the show give us clear indication of how bad the show is going to be and it's not irresponsible to launch on those mock our Lord and those that support them.

I have better question for you how do you redeem anyone if we take your suggestion and embrace the world's sin culture as our own?
There alot of things out there that we as Chirstians shouldn't particpate in we definetly be aware of them but that doesn't mean should embrace them.

I cannot comprehend how any Christian could not find offense with the way this show portrays Christians! I certainly don't know of any Christian families who have ALL of this depravity going on in their families! Guess I shouldn't be surprised these days when you only have to go to the movie and book forums to see what they are willing to watch and read!

 

[bliz]

One family with ALL these problems? We're talking about sinful sexual behavior, drug use, and theft... Yeah, I've met Christian families with those problems in the present or in the past. You'll find people on these threads with this particular combination of problelms in their families.

Why should Christian families get a whitewashing from the world when the reality is, we are often no better than the rest of the world? If Christians were remarkable for the very low percentage of divorce, drug abuse and homosexuality, you might have a point, but we're, sadly, not. Read these threads... many of the posters here struggle with these very issues in their lives, or have Christian friends who have, or who have pastors who do.

Sure, for a TV show it's over the top and made surealistic... I would not claim it to be an excellent show, or an excellent depiction of Christian family life - but extraordinary depravity??? No. We are looking at an exaggerated reality.

 

[writer4him]

My problem with it is simply the fac that they are portraying it as all Christians are like this, you may know some people with these problems, but that's no the point. The point is that there is a vast majority of Christian families who don't deal wiht all of these problems, or even just some. I know for a fact that most of the families in my church don't deal with these within their own homes.