New Covenant

[Messianic Jewboy]

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about in referance to being able to differentiate 'law'.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

If you can get the Greek behind the above verse and be able to 'get into' the midset of Paul.... Paul isn't talking about the written Torah. He's referring to the halacha of that day(and it even exists today).

What the halacha of that day was and even today(brief) is:

That only Jews and Jews only were and are able to go to 'the world to come'. If a Gentile wanted to go to the 'world to come' they had to become a Jew and go through a ritual conversion. If you were a male that meant circimcision. Then since you 'converted' you were now able to go to 'the world to come'. Or maybe better explained you had to be a Jew to be saved.

There is NOT anywhere in the Old Testament that says that!

What Paul is doing is combatting the halacha of that day, the deeds of the law is referring to the halacha AKA man made traditions/laws.

Marc

 

[Eila]

That's what I said it was in the Old Testament.

Then where did "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy' come from is my point.

You said it was a new commandment.

But it wasn't a new commandment as you scriptually stated.

Maybe you misunderstood me. It was a command in the OC to love your neighbor. It was okay to hate your enemy.

In the NC we have a new command - to not only love our neighbor, but to love our enemy.

The NC command holds us to a higher standard than the OC command.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Maybe you misunderstood me. It was a command in the OC to love your neighbor. It was okay to hate your enemy.

No I didn't.

Where does it say that it was OK to hate your enemy?

Nowhere does the Law say: "Hate your enemy", though of course the Law does say: "Love your neighbor"


Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

One of the difficulties here is that it no one can present a definition of sin. References are made to "disobeying God," or "going against the will of God," but what that means is very much left up to people to decide. It seems various denominations pick and choose what commandments from the "Old Testament" they believe are "applicable" while with premise of the teaching that believers are "not under the law.

Marc

 

[Jerrysch]

The old covenant was the covenant made on Sinai with the Israelites.

Exodus 34 "27And the Lord said to Moses, Write these words, for after the purpose and character of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. 28Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he ate no bread and drank no water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

It is indeed one of the covenants found in the OT, it was the one which was conditional and temporary. It was not the most important covenant however. It was made with a select group of people and on other, your passage states with whom it was made, them of ethnic Israel. It does not apply to any other.

 

[heymikey80]

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about in referance to being able to differentiate 'law'.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

If you can get the Greek behind the above verse and be able to 'get into' the midset of Paul.... Paul isn't talking about the written Torah. He's referring to the halacha of that day(and it even exists today).

What the halacha of that day was and even today(brief) is:

That only Jews and Jews only were and are able to go to 'the world to come'. If a Gentile wanted to go to the 'world to come' they had to become a Jew and go through a ritual conversion. If you were a male that meant circimcision. Then since you 'converted' you were now able to go to 'the world to come'. Or maybe better explained you had to be a Jew to be saved.

There is NOT anywhere in the Old Testament that says that!

What Paul is doing is combatting the halacha of that day, the deeds of the law is referring to the halacha AKA man made traditions/laws.

This is actually a view very similar to my theology, it's interesting the overlap. I wouldn't have expected this overlap in particular. I guess I should have!

That's what Paul is arguing in Romans 4, then?

Does this offer any insight into Paul's explanation in Romans 2?

One of the difficulties here is that it no one can present a definition of sin. References are made to "disobeying God," or "going against the will of God," but what that means is very much left up to people to decide. It seems various denominations pick and choose what commandments from the "Old Testament" they believe are "applicable" while with premise of the teaching that believers are "not under the law.

I think there are a number of things at work to make all these different views.

Dispensationalism -- a popular hermeneutic -- allows a break with any law that's not reiterated in a new dispensation. People come in with that as a preconception, because that's how they learned to read [into] the Bible.

Gentiles have been trying to understand this without a recognition of all the cultural environments. We need help from inculturated Jews.

Gentiles and Jews have been trying to understand this from a modern individuistic culture, we've all been affected by human history. We need the input of the ancients to help understand their special cultural environment.

We tend to press the Spirit above the letter, because that's what Paul says and that's what Jesus implies. Vow-taking is a useless attempt when it's used to enforce vows, says Christ. So intent is critical to fulfilling the Law. And Paul points to the intent of Law as well.

The intent of the Jerusalem Council isn't well understood. What it's scope was in releasing Gentiles isn't well understood.

Finally, we aren't God, but too often our egotism tries to sit on His Throne. =sigh=, for humility, eyes to see, ears to hear.

 

[pleasestudy]

James 2:10-11 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, do not commit adultery, said also, do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Holy, who me?

Romans 8:3-4 KJV
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


NASB: because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.


Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross [Col. 2:14]


15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law.

Galatians 3:23

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.



Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


Romans 7:4

So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Law can mean Brit (covenant) or Torah (teaching). In Jer. 31:33 both meanings occur. "But this is the Brit which I will make ... I will put My Torah within them..."


The Brit has changed, the Torah has not. Torah has abiding relevance and authority Malachi 4:4 “ Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, With the statutes and judgments. In Matthew 5:17-18 Yeshua says, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."


God speaks of a new ,Hebrew chadashah, Covenant. The word renewed does not appear. This is reinforced in Hebrews 8:8-12 which translates chadashah as kainos in Greek, meaning of a different nature.


The Sinai Covenant was one of works. Deuteronomy 27:26 says, "Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this Law by doing them." As in Galatians 3:10-12 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

To compare, the New Covenant is one of grace, Jer 31:34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Because of it we have been redeemed from the curse Gal. 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)


Romans 7:1-6 describes our relationship to the Covenant. 1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


Under the Sinai Covenant, we are married to the Law; under the New Covenant, we are married to Messiah. In order for this to happen, we are freed from the Law as Covenant, we are dead to the Law and we are delivered from the Law .


So what has changed?


Moses is no longer the steward. "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our King…
Isaiah 33:22 (For the LORD is our Judge, The LORD is our Lawgiver, The LORD is our King; He will save us);


Instead of an Aaronic high priest there is one after the order of Melchizedek -- Yeshua, the Son of God…..
Psalm 110:4 The LORD has sworn, And will not relent,“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.
Heb. 7:28 says, "For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever."


The Torah is administered under a new Brit. It is no longer written on stone tablets but on the tablets of the heart, by the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor. 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. Same as Jer 31:31-34 isn’t it?


We still need a sacrifice, a high priest to mediate on our behalf, an altar, a sanctuary, a covenant….
Hebrews 9:11-12 1 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


Transgression of the New Covenant is more severely punished than transgression of the Old, according to Heb. 10:28-29 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?


The Sinai Covenant was temporary and was abrogated to make way for the New. Both cannot coexist.



Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

There is a failure to distinguish between the different meanings of the term "law."


Law can mean Brit (covenant) or Torah (teaching). In Jer. 31:33 both meanings occur. "But this is the Brit which I will make ... I will put My Torah within them..."


The Brit has changed, the Torah has not. Torah has abiding relevance and authority Malachi 4:4 “ Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel, With the statutes and judgments. In Matthew 5:17-18 Yeshua says, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."


God speaks of a new ,Hebrew chadashah, Covenant. The word renewed does not appear. This is reinforced in Hebrews 8:8-12 which translates chadashah as kainos in Greek, meaning of a different nature.


The Sinai Covenant was one of works. Deuteronomy 27:26 says, "Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this Law by doing them." As in Galatians 3:10-12 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

To compare, the New Covenant is one of grace, Jer 31:34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Because of it we have been redeemed from the curse Gal. 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)


Romans 7:1-6 describes our relationship to the Covenant. 1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.


Under the Sinai Covenant, we are married to the Law; under the New Covenant, we are married to Messiah. In order for this to happen, we are freed from the Law as Covenant, we are dead to the Law and we are delivered from the Law .


So what has changed?


Moses is no longer the steward. "For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our King…
Isaiah 33:22 (For the LORD is our Judge, The LORD is our Lawgiver, The LORD is our King; He will save us);


Instead of an Aaronic high priest there is one after the order of Melchizedek -- Yeshua, the Son of God…..
Psalm 110:4 The LORD has sworn, And will not relent,“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.
Heb. 7:28 says, "For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever."


The Torah is administered under a new Brit. It is no longer written on stone tablets but on the tablets of the heart, by the Holy Spirit.

2 Cor. 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. Same as Jer 31:31-34 isn’t it?


We still need a sacrifice, a high priest to mediate on our behalf, an altar, a sanctuary, a covenant….
Hebrews 9:11-12 1 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


Transgression of the New Covenant is more severely punished than transgression of the Old, according to Heb. 10:28-29 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?


The Sinai Covenant was temporary and was abrogated to make way for the New. Both cannot coexist.



Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Hi. I disagree with your interpretation of the NC for Israel and Judah and perhaps one reason Orthodox Jews view the Messianics the way they do.

No the Orthodox believe in a New Torah.

The orthodox Jews wait for it expectantly, we live in it and wait for them to enter in, expectantly.

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

A covenant is an agreement between two parties. There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional. A conditional or bilateral covenant is an agreement that is binding on both parties for its fulfillment. Both parties agree to fulfill certain conditions. If either party fails to meet their responsibilities, the covenant is broken and neither party has to fulfill the expectations of the covenant. An unconditional or unilateral covenant is an agreement between two parties, but only one of the two parties has to do something. Nothing is required of the other party.

The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

A covenant is an agreement between two parties. There are two types of covenants: conditional and unconditional. A conditional or bilateral covenant is an agreement that is binding on both parties for its fulfillment. Both parties agree to fulfill certain conditions. If either party fails to meet their responsibilities, the covenant is broken and neither party has to fulfill the expectations of the covenant. An unconditional or unilateral covenant is an agreement between two parties, but only one of the two parties has to do something. Nothing is required of the other party.

The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants.

I agree but what did God say in the Epistle to the Hebrews 8?

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD.

What was the Covenant when He took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt?

Whatever you say we will do? They broke that.

The covenant is not necessarily the Torah per say. The Torah is His Instructions that they said whatever you say we will do.

So as you said a covenant is an agreement by both parties. They broke the covenant at Sinai; whatever you say we will do. But is the covenant His Intructions(Torah)?

So what is the New Covenant?

I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Isn't that true? When you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Your sins as He promisedI will remember no more

 

[IamAdopted]

Lets look at the beginning of the scripture you quote shall we.
Heb 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
Heb 8:2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
Heb 8:4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;
Heb 8:5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Lets look at the beginning of the scripture you quote shall we.
Heb 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
Heb 8:2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.
Heb 8:4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;
Heb 8:5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

IGGL, the word covenant is not in the original text. It's italacized which means it's an added word.

It's obvious that in context Hebrews 8 is referring to the priesthood and not the covenant.

Heb 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

What's the main point?

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

This is the main point.
Heb 7:1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,
Heb 7:2 to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.
Heb 7:4 Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils.
Heb 7:5 And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham.
Heb 7:6 But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises.
Heb 7:7 But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.
Heb 7:8 In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.
Heb 7:9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes,
Heb 7:10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
Heb 7:13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
Heb 7:15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,
Heb 7:16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
Heb 7:17 For it is attested of Him, "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."
Heb 7:18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness
Heb 7:19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath
Heb 7:21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "THE LORD HAS SWORN AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND, 'YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER'");
Heb 7:22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Heb 7:23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
Heb 7:24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
Heb 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
Heb 7:27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Heb 7:28 For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Right so the main point after saying what he said in Hebrews 7 is:

we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

The Law is not part of the NC. For Jesus fulfilled the Law and now the NC is in His shed blood and ressurection. The Law has passed away from us that are in Christ for behold all things have become new.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

The Law is not part of the NC. For Jesus fulfilled the Law and now the NC is in His shed blood and ressurection. The Law has passed away from us that are in Christ for behold all things have become new.

There was someone in another forum that asked a good question:

O.k. now look at what you said this way.

Not eating pork and keeping the sabbath = equals Torah, or the Law as reaffirmed by the Prophets. So, with this in mind, your statement reads;

The Torah is not necessary for salvation. The law as affirmed by the Prophets is not necessary for salvation.

So, what is the Torah for then? And if it was not necessary for salvation, why is Yeshua stating above that it will never be abolished, till the earth be removed?

So, what is the Torah for then? And if it was not necessary for salvation, why is Yeshua stating above that it will never be abolished, till the earth be removed?

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

There was someone in another forum that asked a good question:

So, what is the Torah for then? And if it was not necessary for salvation, why is Yeshua stating above that it will never be abolished, till the earth be removed?

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled

Marc

Because it is to be used lawfully. It is for the sinners and not the righteous..

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Because it is to be used lawfully. It is for the sinners and not the righteous..

Right.

Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (notice He did not condem the Law)
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And:
1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

Laid down=equals enforced. Any law is only enforced against those who break it, as the righteous live and abide by it, and don't have to worry about the penalty thereof. Also those that are righteous by Faith don't have to worry about slip ups.

So the Torah only applies when you break it.

Marc