New Covenant - fulfilled?

[mkgal1]

This may seem out of place on the eschatology forum, but this has come up and there's disagreement over the fulfillment of the New Covenant. This does inform our view of eschatology, so that is why I'm bringing it up here.

This is from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible. This was the understanding of the apostles and the early church:

Quoting From the Orthodox Study Bible (Old Testament)
The Prophet Ezekiel prophesies a “covenant of peace” inaugurating a future era of peace and prosperity for Israel under the care of “one shepherd . . . My Servant David” (Ezk 34:20-21; see 37:15-28). Jeremiah and Ezekiel envision this “new covenant” (Jer 38:31-34; Ezk 36:22-28) to be based on the spiritual cleansing and renewal of men’s hearts. Isaiah foresees the new, “everlasting covenant” when God will gather all peoples to share in the blessings of Israel (Is 2:1-4; 49:6; 55:5; 60:1-6; see Jer 3:12-17; 4:1, 2; Ps 71:1-19).​

The New Testament (or New Covenant), prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, is inaugurated on earth by Jesus Christ, the “Son of David” (Mt 21:9-11; Mk 10:46-48), the one Shepherd (Jn 10:1-16, 25-28) who comes to gather all people to Himself in spiritual unity and who sends the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) on Pentecost to dwell in His followers. Jesus declares at the Last Supper, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood” (Lk 22:20), thus directly linking this new covenant with a covenant meal-the Eucharist. Calling Christ the “Mediator of a better covenant” (Heb 8:6), the Book of Hebrews dramatically demonstrated how He fulfills and supersedes the old covenant made with the Israelites (3:1-10:22).
"God's Covenant - St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Church Bellingham, Washington" God's Covenant​

 

[mkgal1]

It was also stated that Abraham, Moses, and King David had nothing to do with the New Covenant. I wanted to discuss that here as well.

 

[Francis Earl]

It was also stated that Abraham, Moses, and King David had nothing to do with the New Covenant. I wanted to discuss that here as well.

For this, I think making Jesus the eternal priest in the Order of Melchizedek is an important assertion... recall that it was he who initiated Abraham. So while Jesus fulfills Gods promise to Abraham, it is not actually really the Jewish religion.

We see this also in Galatians 4:21-31 because the Jews (and the Muslims, which is odd because Sanai is on the Arabian peninsula) are obsessed with the worldly Jerusalem, yet for the Christian Jerusalem is not a physical place.

 

[Douggg]

This may seem out of place on the eschatology forum, but this has come up and there's disagreement over the fulfillment of the New Covenant. This does inform our view of eschatology, so that is why I'm bringing it up here.

This is from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible. This was the understanding of the apostles and the early church:

Quoting From the Orthodox Study Bible (Old Testament)
The Prophet Ezekiel prophesies a “covenant of peace” inaugurating a future era of peace and prosperity for Israel under the care of “one shepherd . . . My Servant David” (Ezk 34:20-21; see 37:15-28). Jeremiah and Ezekiel envision this “new covenant” (Jer 38:31-34; Ezk 36:22-28) to be based on the spiritual cleansing and renewal of men’s hearts. Isaiah foresees the new, “everlasting covenant” when God will gather all peoples to share in the blessings of Israel (Is 2:1-4; 49:6; 55:5; 60:1-6; see Jer 3:12-17; 4:1, 2; Ps 71:1-19).​

The New Testament (or New Covenant), prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, is inaugurated on earth by Jesus Christ, the “Son of David” (Mt 21:9-11; Mk 10:46-48), the one Shepherd (Jn 10:1-16, 25-28) who comes to gather all people to Himself in spiritual unity and who sends the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) on Pentecost to dwell in His followers. Jesus declares at the Last Supper, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood” (Lk 22:20), thus directly linking this new covenant with a covenant meal-the Eucharist. Calling Christ the “Mediator of a better covenant” (Heb 8:6), the Book of Hebrews dramatically demonstrated how He fulfills and supersedes the old covenant made with the Israelites (3:1-10:22).
"God's Covenant - St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Church Bellingham, Washington" God's Covenant​

What the New Covenant is has been fulfilled in Jesus's death on the cross and rising from the grave on the third day.

But what has not been fulfilled is Israel, the Jews, receiving the New Covenant. Which is the eschatology aspect of it.

 

[Francis Earl]

Also, they are still not cleaving to God in Malachi... so why are they still blessed?

 

[Francis Earl]

God cannot break his promise... but Galatians 3:28 says Jew and Gentile are made on in Jesus...

Through Jesus he has brought the whole world to him, but the Jews never obeyed... the OT is basically a chronical of disobedience and a God trying time and again to do something about it... they are never holy people.

 

[Francis Earl]

This sort of gets close to anti-semitism, sorry if I'm hurting anyone... I love all, but I reject Israel as special... only those with the Spirit are actually special.

Whether Jew or otherwise, even a Muslim with the authentic Spirit is my brother... even the Bhakti saints have it. It is suggesting you are blessed merely because of genetics, or even that you are cursed by them, that I am offended by.

 

[Douggg]

Francis Earl, although the Jews, Israel are presently enemies to the gospel, Ezekiel 39:21-29 indicates they will turn to Jesus before He returns.

 

[Francis Earl]

Francis Earl, although the Jews, Israel are presently enemies to the gospel, Ezekiel 39:21-29 indicates they will turn to Jesus before He returns.

They have never been obedient, so we'll see I suppose.

Honestly, I am not very concerned with such matters... none of this actually affects salvation at all.

Revelation 22:5 says God will be our light, but you seem to like lamps.

 

[Francis Earl]

Michael means "like God" so for me Revelation is not a prophecy at all... it is an imaginative description of John's enlightenment.

This is further evidenced by the frequency of 7's which are the number of perfection...

Therefor, the throne is Johns heart.

 

[Francis Earl]

Also, the second coming is said to be within those who are there's lifetime... so either this is fulfilled in Galatians when he saw Jesus, or it is not a physical event but our own coming to the Spirit, becoming Christ...

 

[Douggg]

Honestly, I am not very concerned with such matters... none of this actually affects salvation at all.

That's true.

 

[jgr]

This sort of gets close to anti-semitism, sorry if I'm hurting anyone... I love all, but I reject Israel as special... only those with the Spirit are actually special.

Whether Jew or otherwise, even a Muslim with the authentic Spirit is my brother... even the Bhakti saints have it. It is suggesting you are blessed merely because of genetics, or even that you are cursed by them, that I am offended by.

You need not be concerned about antisemitism, because God's identification criteria for His Chosen People have absolutely nothing to do with physical DNA i.e. genetics; and absolutely everything to do with spiritual DNA i.e. faith and obedience.

Paul could have been considered antisemitic, declaring that a physical Jew was not a Jew at all unless he was a spiritual Jew:

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

But he was merely identifying the irrelevance of physical DNA in identifying the genuine Jew, who is a spiritual Jew.

The nation of Israel was always comprised of two nations within; those faithful and obedient to God's covenant, and those unfaithful and disobedient to God's covenant.

The former, He blessed and preserved.

The latter, He punished and slew.

Physical DNA never did, nor ever will, save them.

Spiritual DNA alone did, and will.

 

[swainkas]

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

God showed His face to Israel by coming in the flesh as Jesus. And, He poured out His Spirit on the house of Israel the day of Pentecost (most by far of Christ's early followers were Israelites).

 

[Douggg]

God showed His face to Israel by coming in the flesh as Jesus. And, He poured out His Spirit on the house of Israel the day of Pentecost (most by far of Christ's early followers were Israelites).

Gog/Magog has not happened yet. Ezekiel 39:17-20 is 7 years after the destruction of Gog's army. Ezekiel 39:17-20 = Revelation 19:17-18.

Ezekeil 39:21-22 and the remainder of Ezekiel 39 is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth.

 

[Timtofly]

God cannot break his promise... but Galatians 3:28 says Jew and Gentile are made on in Jesus...

Through Jesus he has brought the whole world to him, but the Jews never obeyed... the OT is basically a chronical of disobedience and a God trying time and again to do something about it... they are never holy people.

Sounds like the harlot church of the last 1990 years, that killed and martyred the true church many times over.

 

[mkgal1]

So while Jesus fulfills Gods promise to Abraham, it is not actually really the Jewish religion.

It's biblical Judaism though.....just not modern-day Judaism. Jesus and Christianity are the completion or fulfillment of the ancient Hebrew Scriptures.

However.....the Sinai religious system (the Mosaic Covenant) has "disappeared" just as the author of Hebrews had written it would:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear​

We see this also in Galatians 4:21-31 because the Jews (and the Muslims, which is odd because Sanai is on the Arabian peninsula) are obsessed with the worldly Jerusalem, yet for the Christian Jerusalem is not a physical place

Right. And even Abraham himself understood that :

Hebrews 11:10
Abraham was confidently looking forward to a city with eternal foundations, a city designed and built by God.
​

What's interesting to me is that (from my understanding) not all Jews nor all Muslims are focused on the physical land.....and Christians aren't united on that issue either. All 3 Abrahamic religions have a group within that's focused on the physical.....and their theology seems very similar.

I've shared this documentary in other threads. It's a full documentary (about an hour and a half in length) but I believe it offers good insight:


Trailer:

Full documentary:

 

[nolidad]

This may seem out of place on the eschatology forum, but this has come up and there's disagreement over the fulfillment of the New Covenant. This does inform our view of eschatology, so that is why I'm bringing it up here.

This is from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible. This was the understanding of the apostles and the early church:

Quoting From the Orthodox Study Bible (Old Testament)
The Prophet Ezekiel prophesies a “covenant of peace” inaugurating a future era of peace and prosperity for Israel under the care of “one shepherd . . . My Servant David” (Ezk 34:20-21; see 37:15-28). Jeremiah and Ezekiel envision this “new covenant” (Jer 38:31-34; Ezk 36:22-28) to be based on the spiritual cleansing and renewal of men’s hearts. Isaiah foresees the new, “everlasting covenant” when God will gather all peoples to share in the blessings of Israel (Is 2:1-4; 49:6; 55:5; 60:1-6; see Jer 3:12-17; 4:1, 2; Ps 71:1-19).​

The New Testament (or New Covenant), prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, is inaugurated on earth by Jesus Christ, the “Son of David” (Mt 21:9-11; Mk 10:46-48), the one Shepherd (Jn 10:1-16, 25-28) who comes to gather all people to Himself in spiritual unity and who sends the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) on Pentecost to dwell in His followers. Jesus declares at the Last Supper, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood” (Lk 22:20), thus directly linking this new covenant with a covenant meal-the Eucharist. Calling Christ the “Mediator of a better covenant” (Heb 8:6), the Book of Hebrews dramatically demonstrated how He fulfills and supersedes the old covenant made with the Israelites (3:1-10:22).
"God's Covenant - St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Church Bellingham, Washington" God's Covenant​

I think you means Jer. 31:31-34 not 38.

everything you have written here I agree with!

Jesus has inaugurated a new covenant with Israel. Remember the New covenant is a Jewish Covenant and we gentiles are partakers of the benefits, but it still belongs to Israel.

The question isthis: does God go back on promises that He did not place conditions on like the Mosaic covenant had conditions?

If God is not an Indian Giver then He will fulfill these promises as declared.

Teh battle is between a literal vs. allegorical interpretation of the promises God made to Israel.

Some of teh big covenant theologians like Cox, Allis, Hokema, Boettner all agree that if we are to read these promises literally, then Israel has a future kingdom awaiting them. They however has chosen to allegorize (retranslate) them and make them spiritually apply to the church.

If God will pull His promises from Israel- how can we His New Testament people be assured He will not pull the promises He said He will do for us away as well?

You quoted the key verse in Ezekiel 37:15-22 He won't.

Why will He fuflill His promises to the nation of Israel in the future?

21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Not necessarily for Israel but for HIS HOLY NAMES sake!

 

[mlepfitjw]

I believe that it the new testament is fulfilled. Jesus Christ talked more with his disciples than he ever did us.

There is no scripture or letter that says, and this message is for future generations to do also as the 'previous generation' Jesus Christ had told them, that they 'would' see these things happen ie: matthew 24, and then you have the acts of the apostles, then the wrap up, in revelation for the Lord to come back to get the bride that once was, and is no longer here on this earth.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

This may seem out of place on the eschatology forum, but this has come up and there's disagreement over the fulfillment of the New Covenant. This does inform our view of eschatology, so that is why I'm bringing it up here.

This is from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible. This was the understanding of the apostles and the early church:

Quoting From the Orthodox Study Bible (Old Testament)
The Prophet Ezekiel prophesies a “covenant of peace” inaugurating a future era of peace and prosperity for Israel under the care of “one shepherd . . . My Servant David” (Ezk 34:20-21; see 37:15-28). Jeremiah and Ezekiel envision this “new covenant” (Jer 38:31-34; Ezk 36:22-28) to be based on the spiritual cleansing and renewal of men’s hearts. Isaiah foresees the new, “everlasting covenant” when God will gather all peoples to share in the blessings of Israel (Is 2:1-4; 49:6; 55:5; 60:1-6; see Jer 3:12-17; 4:1, 2; Ps 71:1-19).​

The New Testament (or New Covenant), prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah, is inaugurated on earth by Jesus Christ, the “Son of David” (Mt 21:9-11; Mk 10:46-48), the one Shepherd (Jn 10:1-16, 25-28) who comes to gather all people to Himself in spiritual unity and who sends the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26) on Pentecost to dwell in His followers. Jesus declares at the Last Supper, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood” (Lk 22:20), thus directly linking this new covenant with a covenant meal-the Eucharist. Calling Christ the “Mediator of a better covenant” (Heb 8:6), the Book of Hebrews dramatically demonstrated how He fulfills and supersedes the old covenant made with the Israelites (3:1-10:22).
"God's Covenant - St. Sophia Greek Orthodox Church Bellingham, Washington" God's Covenant​

They are completely correct in all they say about the new covenant except that the word for "new" used in new covenant in the New Testament (covenant) means something like "new-and-improved," since it is the covenant with Abraham and then Israel changed from a national form (the outward form) to the international church (the inner principles, which still apply to believers today).