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New Christian

Robert Sanders

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Robert Sanders
 

AGTG

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Saying you should decide implies that you know what's best. This is not a humble position to work from.

How about this: Are you willing to let God define who He is and what His plan is for you for Himself? Real, authentic Christianity is revelatory. That means Father God Himself will reveal His truth into your heart if you humbly present an open mind to Him.

It's good that you're reading the Bible, as that is the standard which will anchor us intellectually, because God won't reveal things that are contrary to what's in the Bible. The more we spend time in His Word, the more He can reveal truth clearly to your heart. This must be coupled with prayer time with Him, though, as it is the Spirit of truth that brings understanding.

Seek His face, and He will teach you and reveal truth straight into your heart. Isn't that neat? There is no middle-man, perse, between you and God but Jesus Christ. And He made it so you can straight to Father God's throne for everything you need including wisdom and understanding.
 
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AGTG

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How did you decide what to believe?

I didn't "decide," I positioned my heart to receive and accept whatever He "decides." This is called humility before a holy God. He will not turn you away if you simply come to Him as a little child looking for His perfect Fatherly ways and advice.

It just turned out that His Word really is true. Then, as I sought Him out, He taught me directly through His Word and He led me by His Spirit to other solid teachings from teachers He had appointed in the world. He will do the same for you, if you want Him to.
 
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abacabb3

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I became a Christian when I was 22 by the grace of GOd and I am happy to hear that He is working in your life!

I am here to defend a Reformed Baptist view of the faith.

In Acts 17, Paul tells the Ephesian elders that in his absence He commends them to the Holy Spirit and to the Scripture. So, our ultimate source of authority is God Himself working in our hearts by the Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

Being that the Holy Spirit will not compel us to contradict Scripture, which He has revealed, it is important that whatever beliefs we have are derived from Scripture in a consistent way. So, we cannot hold one set of criteria reading one teaching in Scripture (i.e. reading plain teachings literally when there is no obvious allegory or metaphor) and not apply the same method to another teaching. For example, the Scripture says plainly several times that women cannot exercise authority over men in several different situations. We have to be willing to accept teachings like these if we are willing to accept other clear commandments that are similar (we are to submit to our government, for example.)

Further, we need an inerrant view of Scripture, which means any interpretation we have must make sense with everything the Scripture teaches on something. For example, the Bible teaches that if we draw near to God, He will draw near to us. However, the Scripture also teaches that there are none that seek God. Further, the Scripture teaches that God will put a new heart within us that will cause us to follow His ordinances.

How do these contradicting things make sense? Well, it does not make sense that I can draw near to God if by default, I don't seek Him. It is also not possible that I will never seek God, because God promises to give me a new heart that will cause me to. So, the only logical interpretation of all three principles is that none of us seek God purely out of our own power, but God gives us new hearts that cause us to walk in His ways, and in doing so we draw near to God out of the desire of this new heart, and then God draws even closer to us in result.

Lastly, when something is unclear in Scripture, it is wise to at least look to early Christian authorities to see how they interpreted something. For example, were children baptized in household baptisms? In Acts, in three out of the four situations it is explicit that everyone in the household believed before being baptized. The one situation where it doesn't say, it doesn't mention that baptizing of infants which leads me to believe it can be inferred that they also believed before being baptized. Then, in early Christian history, baptisms were generally delayed well into adulthood.

I think the above are all simple reasons why a reformed baptist view is the most Scriptural these days and conforms to correct Christian practice.

Let me know if you want to talk about the triune nature of God or any of those matters.
 
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catholichomeschooler

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Robert Sanders

I was born again as a Baptist and spent many years in a Methodist Church.

I am now a Catholic and I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus started.

It is 2000 years old and it has maintained it's doctrines and moral teachings. Also, when reading the views of early Christians we can see that they believed as Catholics believe today.

My two cents!
 
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Robert Sanders

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I was born again as a Baptist and spent many years in a Methodist Church.

I am now a Catholic and I believe that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus started.

It is 2000 years old and it has maintained it's doctrines and moral teachings. Also, when reading the views of early Christians we can see that they believed as Catholics believe today.

My two cents!
That is an amazing transformation. If you were born again as a baptist, how come you left the Baptist?
 
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Harry3142

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Robert-

I believe that we have assurance of salvation because of what God himself was able to accomplish:

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

and-

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written:

"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." (Romans 9:30-33,NIV)

This is the sole foundation of Christianity. In order to progress on the Christian path, we must first accept that we are sinners who have been saved from our shortcomings not through our own efforts, but rather through God's.

The logical next step for us would be to accept a set of laws as our guide, and then resolve to follow that set of laws perfectly. But we humans have a flaw in our psyche that dooms to failure anything we might try to do:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do - this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:14-25a,NIV)

2,000 years after St. Paul wrote this passage psychologists verified the exact flaw he described as being a part of all of our psyches; they gave it the name 'paradoxical intention'. What it 'boils down to' is our total inability to successfully accomplish anything that we try to do. In order for our efforts to be successful, they must come naturally, or they won't come at all. There's even a saying which describes this flaw: "The harder you try, the faster you fail."

Fortunately for us, God has taken this into consideration. Instead of his insisting that we obey innumerable laws which he knows we will fail to successfully do, he implants within us an entirely new nature. This new nature is yet another gift given to us freely as a result of our accepting the salvation which God offers to us:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

So not only does our salvation depend on what God himself has been able to accomplish, but also our proper behavior as Christians depends on what God is still able to accomplish, namely, the implanting within us of a new nature (the fruit of the Spirit). And the reason for both our salvation and our proper behavior as Christians being to God's credit rather than any of it's being to our own is this: By doing it in this manner God has effectively 'slammed the door' on the most dangerous sin of all, namely, the sin of Pride. We cannot boast of our salvation, because in order to obtain that salvation we must accept it as a free gift, totally unearned and undeserved. Further, in order to live our lives in the proper manner as Christians we need to receive another gift, namely, his Spirit's coming to bond with us, and bringing with him this 'fruit of the Spirit', which he implants within us. So all credit is due him, with we ourselves only to be seen as the receivers of his generosity and compassion.

P.S: I myself am Anglican, but the same teaching can be found in nearly all of the 'mainstream' church denominations, such as the Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and United Church of Christ.
 
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Bible2

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Harry3142 said in post 10:

So all credit is due him, with we ourselves only to be seen as the receivers of his generosity and compassion.

Amen.

It's impossible to believe or continue to believe all the right things apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2) and some measure of his Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it's impossible to perform or continue to perform all the right actions as believers apart from God making it possible for believers to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it's impossible to repent if a sin is committed apart from God making it possible to do that (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if believers do continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus will judge the church at his 2nd coming, he will give obedient believers some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify saved people (e.g. Romans 8:30).

Also, while God makes it possible for saved people to do the right thing (Philippians 2:13, John 15:4-5), he doesn't take away their free will, turning them into robots, or into macabre flesh puppets, mere marionettes whom he forces to dance across the stage as he pulls on their strings. Instead, he leaves them as his real children with free will. And so they have to choose each and every day to deny themselves, to take up their crosses, and to follow Jesus to the end (Luke 9:23, Matthew 24:13). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46, Luke 8:13)
 
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Bible2

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catholichomeschooler said in post 11:

Our spiritual growth doesn't end when we accept Christ, it begins.

That's right.

Initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know they're actually alive, so initially saved people can know they're actually saved. And just as an infant can't "give back" his being born, so a born-again person can't "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there's no assurance children will reach adulthood, so there's no assurance initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. Just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they're to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they're to obtain ultimate salvation (e.g. Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).
 
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dhh712

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Robert Sanders

Well, without being specific, here is a general run-down of the measure of faith I've been given (you can note my denomination by my screen-name there--though there are many sects of it, I belong to the one which is of the Reformed tradition, very conservative; the liberal sect is far more main-stream).

We believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, that it is the final authority on matters pertaining to God and ultimately how we should live while we are here in the world which we are not a part of yet are living in according to God's sovereign plan. He is sovereign meaning that nothing at all occurs without His having ordained it and in fact He has arranged by fore-ordaining everything which has ever happened and will ever happen in the world. Jesus died so that all who would believe upon Him will be able to have eternal communion with God.

There are scores of other beliefs comprising this measure of faith, is there anything you would like to know in particular? (I'm also usually always writing these posts in much haste, so that is why this one is quite brief yet I would be happy to answer any specific questions though it may take me a while to get to them). Also, it is generally known as a rather harsh faith so there are a few things which should not be lightly touched upon (such as the more severe doctrines of election and total depravity; not many people like to find out about such things as it seems either unfair and/or to set God in a negative light).
 
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AGTG

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That is an amazing transformation. If you were born again as a baptist, how come you left the Baptist?

Just for the sake of differing experiences, I was a former catholic that grew up in the faith but as an adult was born again. From what I see in the Bible, the Catholic church has some incorrect understandings of the scriptures (enough so that I would not attend a catholic mass).

That being said, there are catholics who are saved. These things are all matters of the heart and simple truth. If we trust Jesus' blood sacrifice covers the sins upon receiving Jesus, and we continue on with Him in daily prayer relationship (confessing our sins to Him as we grow in the knowledge of His ways), we need not worry about the trappings of denominational tradition.
 
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Soul2Soul

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Robert Sanders


I think that is an earnest request ..... to try and make some sort of sense out of the various interpretations of scripture amongst Christians. Do you have any specific queries that maybe I could share some thoughts about?
 
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seashale76

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Robert Sanders

What Orthodox Christians believe:
OCA - The Orthodox Faith

A basic podcast regarding how we view the scriptures:
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/aftoday/the_eastern_orthodox_approach_to_the_bible
 
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All Souls

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I am in the process, of becoming a Christian.
I have been to several different churches and been
visiting Christian websites and forums on the Internet.
I have noticed that Christians believe many different things
among themselves. I myself are not completely clear just as
to how I believe on certain scriptures pertaining to the Bible.
I have come here to discuss with you the way you believe
and why you believe the way you do. I want to compare
your belief of the scriptures and the Bible, to the other
Christian denominations. Then I can decide for myself
which way I ought to believe.

Sounds good, Robert.
 
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