New CF - finally...

gee · Jul 10, 2007

g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

Click to expand...

Very sad - and disturbing. I pray that you will re-think and not have to make account of your decisions one day.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Him.

The next stop will be multi-faith - which really, I guess it is already.

But don't you see that being a part of this fellowship can actually HELP him to become a better Christian?

But why would somebody want to be become a "better" Christian if they've already "arrived"? Their own lifestyle, morality etc is good enough for them. They are all a Christian needs to be.

wow. this is so sad..ERWIN. do you see that you sold out?

Very sad, but I don't think he does

meant4worship · Jul 10, 2007

sparklecat said:
What makes you think you're not allowed to? The only thing allowing anyone who wishes to identify themselves as a Christian does at present is make it so that they can use a Christian icon. It doesn't mean you can't disagree with them.

For myself, I certainly hope there's no rule saying that Christians can't disagree on who is and is not a Christian, provided they can do so politely as part of a topical discussion, rather than to flame someone.

Think what will happen when nonbelievers are set into positions of moderator... whose post will be edited or removed when a christian is disagreeing with a nonchristian and, even lovingly, trying to lead them into all truth?

sparklecat · Jul 10, 2007

Vote_For_Pedro said:
Christianity says we are in the same hell-bound boat until we are born again.

Paul says: But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:8)

WIKIanity says truth is consensus

I believe it is the rules that are being decided by consensus, rather than truth.

I hadn't realized you're a relativist, Steve

JimfromOhio · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Not if the believers are not allowed to correct and reprove....

This is just another device of the enemy to confuse the body.... I want no part of it. I wish Erwin would rethink this and go back to the prayer closet.... This is not a Biblical precept!

God uses people with the right life experiences by putting them through the right spiritual directions and teaching them the right spiritual lessons. We must be weary of such doctrines that teaches bad theology. There are bad theologies will do anything to avoid the "truth". "A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself" (A.W. Tozer). We should be judging ourselves rather judging others. Paul said, "But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment" (1 Corinthians 11:31). We can escape the critical judgment of God by doing our own exercising of critical self-judgment. It is better to judge ourselves before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people (believers and unbelievers). "Each one should test his own actions. . . ."(Galatians 6:4a).

Vote_For_Pedro · Jul 10, 2007

Marriage icons are for anyone thinking they are married.
More compromise.

ChaliceThunder · Jul 10, 2007

Thing said:
Heh.

It's amazing how pervasive tribalism is.

Them and us.

It's funny.

I always thought that the message of Christianity was also that we are all in the same boat, all worthy of fellowship and compassion, especially those we would count as enemies.

I always thought that the message of Christianity was that nobody's that much better than anyone else; that we're all flawed creatures doing the best we can.

I always thought that the message of Christianity was that extending the hand of friendship and a welcome in your home to tax-collectors, prostitutes and the like was the right thing to do; that this gratuitous fellowship and refusal to exclude people was the whole point.

I always thought the message of Christianity was that altruism was more powerful than evil, that it simply worked better; that love was the universal solvent.

And so, get a bunch of particularly devout Christians together in a place like this, and look what happens.

They build fences to forcibly separate 'them' from 'us'. They worry that they will be contaminated or dragged down by walking among those outside their group. They hoard their friendship and welcome among themselves, refusing to waste it on others, as though they might somehow run out of the stuff. And they simply do not trust that their way works better, shielding themselves from the 'wolves' of other beliefs and hostility, lest it overpower love.

And people wonder why I'm a cynic.

QFT.

Jesus did not come to create or enshrine doctrine. (Indeed, he came to end it!)

Doctrine and legalistic rule-following is something that feeble humankind created in order to have some kind of hold on God.

WHEN will we learn that we don't need to follow any rules except to love God and one another.

A wise rabbi once said: "Everything else is commentary."

Lisa0315 · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Think what will happen when nonbelievers are set into positions of moderator... whose post will be edited or removed when a christian is disagreeing with a nonchristian and, even lovingly, trying to lead them into all truth?

Then, don't vote for them. Better yet, don't break the rules.

Also, please remember that there will be ubermods and we can always appeal in a PUBLIC forum.

Lisa

sparklecat · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Think what will happen when nonbelievers are set into positions of moderator... whose post will be edited or removed when a christian is disagreeing with a nonchristian and, even lovingly, trying to lead them into all truth?

It depends if either of the posts are breaking rules, really.

It's hardly a case of the Christians or the non-Christians always moderating unfairly. It's a case of some people doing so and others not. So just as some of the Christian mods would do their work in a biased fashion, so will some of the non-Christian mods. But with the new open system, we can see who does such and remove their power if they're inclined to abuse it.

JimfromOhio · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
I agree with you 100%... you cannot, however, disregard the absolute truth of Scripture. In the Word of God homosexuality is an abomination. To allow a homosexual couple to add wedding rings to their profile is an abomonation to God! Throws the Word right into the face of God. To say "if you say you're a christian, you're a christian, who are we to judge" slaps the teachings of Jesus right back in His face!!! He was all over the Pharisees for not being who they said they were. And, to limit my ability to judge the fruit of another's life and interact with them accordingly limits my ability to fulfill what God has called me to do... what He has called you to do.... be salt and light. Do I want to keep nonbelievers out... absolutely NOT! Do I want to sit in judgement over their lifestyles... yes... over them... NO. Jesus loved the sinner and hated the sin. We cannot embrace the sin at the same time we embrace the sinner and expect God to bless it. This isn't about legalism or doctrine. It is about being Christian--Christ-like! The new CF just doesn't fit the bill... Erwin might consider changing the name to Religious Forum... that is what you've ended up with... Religion. Having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof....

I do not accept homosexual lifestyle or any other lifestyles that are not biblical. At the same time, I am here to minister to them and allow God to change them. It is not too late until the day they die.

gee · Jul 10, 2007

joyshirley said:
Forgive me if this is an assumption which is way off, but hasn't the possiblilty always existed for folk who join CF to claim a Christian icon which may not necessarily have reflected their actual stance?

Yes, that was possible. But the "belief" of the board was that a Christian had certain beliefs, and that there was ONE way to eternal life (which there is). Now, anyone with any beliefs can call themselves a Christian and the forum has no stand as to what defines a person to be that.

ChaliceThunder · Jul 10, 2007

Vote_For_Pedro said:
Marriage icons are for anyone thinking they are married.
More compromise.

Compromise, or a reflection of the truth?

(y'all can guess how I feel about it! )

JimfromOhio · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Think what will happen when nonbelievers are set into positions of moderator... whose post will be edited or removed when a christian is disagreeing with a nonchristian and, even lovingly, trying to lead them into all truth?

You don't think God is in control of this matter?

meant4worship · Jul 10, 2007

joyshirley said:
Forgive me if this is an assumption which is way off, but hasn't the possiblilty always existed for folk who join CF to claim a Christian icon which may not necessarily have reflected their actual stance?

Yes, Joy, I have always thought that and been very deliberate about where I've allowed my kids to visit on the site for just this reason.

But, it goes beyond posting under a "christian" symbol. Erwin is silencing believers without even realizing he is doing it. Just the way we've been silenced for years. Little by little, believers are told what they can and cannot say... how they can interact with others.... our freedoms are being stripped away and we're allowing it. Seem a little mellow dramatic...maybe. But, I also used to be able to start every school day with the Word of God and prayer... and it was a public school. If you tell me that in a forum such as this I cannot interact and reprove and correct someone that is living a life in total opposition to God's Word, you've just stripped me of that right....

Plus, as I already stated, all roads do not lead to God! This is just the beginning of breaking down the defenses toward a one-world religion.

JimfromOhio · Jul 10, 2007

Vote_For_Pedro said:
Marriage icons are for anyone thinking they are married.
More compromise.

Judging based on appearance and doctrines are man-centered more than God-center. Appearance is one thing but fruit of the Spirit is the other. "You should not judge", is not the same as "fruit inspector", or "discerning true and false teachings".

Grace is about loving other people that we have the freedom to do so but at the same time, respect how they practice their beliefs. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" Everyone will have different view based on their "convictions". Nothing holy and genuine will be done in someone's life until their will is surrendered in active obedience to the Holy Spirit. This is between the believer and God. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with minor doctrine issues.

meant4worship · Jul 10, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
God uses people with the right life experiences by putting them through the right spiritual directions and teaching them the right spiritual lessons. We must be weary of such doctrines that teaches bad theology. There are bad theologies will do anything to avoid the "truth". "A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself" (A.W. Tozer). We should be judging ourselves rather judging others. Paul said, "But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment" (1 Corinthians 11:31). We can escape the critical judgment of God by doing our own exercising of critical self-judgment. It is better to judge ourselves before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people (believers and unbelievers). "Each one should test his own actions. . . ."(Galatians 6:4a).

I do not disagree with you.... this is not about judging a person. This is about allowing someone to believe they are right in their sin.... I can guarantee you if A.W. Tozer were a part of a forum that said a homosexual couple could say they were married, he'd be saying the same things I am... As believers, while we cannot judge the heart of a man, we can judge the fruit of his life and our job is to come along side and be honest where honesty is needed and to hold up their arms in battle when it is needed. We cannot do any less!!!

Vote_For_Pedro · Jul 10, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
You don't think God is in control of this matter?

God is in control in judgment too.
Does that mean we should not warn folks to repent of compromise?

"The bridge is OUT, turn BACK"

How judgmental. Instead say,

"Enjoy the ride... the view on the way down is breath taking I bet."

meant4worship · Jul 10, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
You don't think God is in control of this matter?

No, I really don't....a nonbeliever isn't listening to the voice of God!

Lisa0315 · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Yes, Joy, I have always thought that and been very deliberate about where I've allowed my kids to visit on the site for just this reason.

But, it goes beyond posting under a "christian" symbol. Erwin is silencing believers without even realizing he is doing it. Just the way we've been silenced for years. Little by little, believers are told what they can and cannot say... how they can interact with others.... our freedoms are being stripped away and we're allowing it. Seem a little mellow dramatic...maybe. But, I also used to be able to start every school day with the Word of God and prayer... and it was a public school. If you tell me that in a forum such as this I cannot interact and reprove and correct someone that is living a life in total opposition to God's Word, you've just stripped me of that right....

Plus, as I already stated, all roads do not lead to God! This is just the beginning of breaking down the defenses toward a one-world religion.

Where in the world do you get this out of Erwin's rule? I just had the liberty to set a Mormon straight. I was respectful but to the point. He said he was a Christian. I said that he may call himself one all he wanted, but he could not be a follower of Christ until He believed Jesus was who Jesus said that He was.

There is NOTHING in the rules that say we cannot correct false doctrine.

Lisa

JimfromOhio · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
Yes, Joy, I have always thought that and been very deliberate about where I've allowed my kids to visit on the site for just this reason.

But, it goes beyond posting under a "christian" symbol. Erwin is silencing believers without even realizing he is doing it. Just the way we've been silenced for years. Little by little, believers are told what they can and cannot say... how they can interact with others.... our freedoms are being stripped away and we're allowing it. Seem a little mellow dramatic...maybe. But, I also used to be able to start every school day with the Word of God and prayer... and it was a public school. If you tell me that in a forum such as this I cannot interact and reprove and correct someone that is living a life in total opposition to God's Word, you've just stripped me of that right....

Plus, as I already stated, all roads do not lead to God! This is just the beginning of breaking down the defenses toward a one-world religion.

There are Christians who are willing to compromise sound doctrine for the sake of "_______________" but I don't allow the world to control my beliefs except God.

Lisa0315 · Jul 10, 2007

meant4worship said:
No, I really don't....a nonbeliever isn't listening to the voice of God!

hmm...So, if they are deaf to the Holy Spirit, how did you and I come to God?

Lisa

New CF - finally...

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