• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Nested Hierarchy: Evidence for Evolution

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟158,395.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
All you have to do is look at the reaction creationists get, even on Christian forums. We're all treated like idiots because how dare we question almighty science!

No, not because you "dare to question science".

Question, is how science makes progress. It's an indespensible and hugely important aspect of science.

The problem however, is that you don't just "question". Instead, you argue against it and even call it a "lie". In essence, that wouldn't be a problem either IF it was well-motivated.

But that's the thing now, isn't it.... it's anything BUT well-motivated. In fact, it is only motivated by fundamentalist religious beliefs.

Worse still, I have yet to meet a creationist who calls "evolution a lie" and/or who spells it "evilution" and who actually also understands what the theory is all about.

I mean seriously... just about every thread on here on this topic... we end up having to explain the very basics of the basics of evolution theory.

Only to then see a couple days later that the same poster is again making the same false claims.

So, no, the problem is not that creationists "question science".

The problem rather is that they
- are dishonest
- don't listen
- demonize science (instead of just questioning it)
- motivate their "questioning" not with better science, but rather with fundamentalist religious beliefs
- don't actually understand the science that they are "questioning", in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Creation.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

- you did not explain things well enough.
 
Upvote 0

DogmaHunter

Code Monkey
Jan 26, 2014
16,757
8,531
Antwerp
✟158,395.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
- you did not explain things well enough.

Sorry, but such feigned ignorance is no excuse.
Plenty of people here have explained things in ridiculous detail and with the patience of angels that I don't even believe exist.

And if that isn't enough for you, there's a wealth of information out there in all kinds of science books with various degrees of "dificulty".

In this information age, you really have no excuse at all for not having a correct understanding of the established scientific theory you wish to argue against (because of your religious beliefs).
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single

at first i gave you one example and you said that its only a single trait. then i gave you example of about 24 traits and then you said its not sufficient too. so how many contradict traits we need to find to change your mind about nested hierarchy?
 
Upvote 0

Ronald

Exhortations
Site Supporter
Jul 30, 2004
4,620
981
southern
✟111,578.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

This is absurd. Man, his intelligence, talents, abilities, rationality, creativity, communication, spirituality, likeness with God is so _so far more advanced and different than it is worth any effort at all comparing similarities with animals. It is a joke to even illustrate man having to do with this fictitious tree, that in itself is an illusion of absurdity. I guess we can both pick up a banana and eat it similarly ... actually I think they bite the whole skin too. I liked Caesar in the Planet of the Apes, it's funny -- but that's Hollywood.
Life came from life and it was made in finished forms. All life forms were made as you see them and whatever forms are extinct were just forms that became extinct, not forms that were at any time anything else. Adaptive mechanisms were programmed into the genetic code and so we do see micro-evolution, changes within the species to adapt to different environmental changes; but not macro-evolution, the changing of one kind into a completely different kind.
Darwin was a fool, he went down the wrong path and his imagination twisted and distorted our historical perspective or our origins. We were made finished as was a peacock was always a peacock and a rose was always a rose. An amoeba is still an amoeba. A bird was never a reptile or anything else. The design in each and every kind is unique and fits into this vast eco-system, also part of a gran design, created by a Designer.
You can look at similarities, but stop, otherwise you will also be foolishly deceived into thinking there is no God, nature is all there is ... or even that God started things out and evolution took it from there.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
... or even that God started things out and evolution took it from there.
Yes that is a possibility. As a possibility it is far superior to what creationists have to offer: a shallow and theologically unsatisfying interpretation of Genesis wedded to an ugly and unAmerican right-wing political agenda.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ronald

Exhortations
Site Supporter
Jul 30, 2004
4,620
981
southern
✟111,578.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Have you read "The Origin of the Species"? What in particular do you take issue with?
It is pointless to argue the premise of the TOE with an atheist, it always leads to a wall that divides us. You are unable to see what's on the other side of that wall. You first need to be enabled. You have a disability in a sense that I cannot fix.
 
Upvote 0

Jimmy D

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2014
5,147
5,995
✟277,099.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

I wasn't after an argument, I was wondering why you thought one of the most influential scientists of the last 200 years is a fool.

Can we assume, from your cop-out answer that you haven't read it? Don't you think that what you said is extremely hypocritical, and rather uncharitable under the circumstances? Don't you care?
 
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
This is absurd. Man, his intelligence, talents, abilities, rationality, creativity, communication, spirituality, likeness with God is so _so far more advanced and different than it is worth any effort at all comparing similarities with animals.
-_- humans have only a handful of mental capabilities that are above any other organism. I mean, chimps even have better memories than we do. The biggest one is problem solving; humans are really good at problem solving. Problem solving is not exclusive to humans, we are just the best organism we know of at doing it.

Life came from life and it was made in finished forms.
-_- no one is claiming that a human ancestor was a human waist down and nothing waist up. Organisms don't evolve "incomplete".

All life forms were made as you see them and whatever forms are extinct were just forms that became extinct, not forms that were at any time anything else.
Then why aren't there any human fossils among trilobite fossils? If everything existed at the same time at some point, fossils would reflect that.

Adaptive mechanisms were programmed into the genetic code and so we do see micro-evolution, changes within the species to adapt to different environmental changes; but not macro-evolution, the changing of one kind into a completely different kind.
Lol, the "adaptive mechanisms" you are referring to is just the imperfect DNA replication system. Doesn't matter how beneficial a mutation is, as far as eukaryotes like ourselves are concerned, they are all the result of mistakes. Not with prokaryotes, though, but that's because not all alterations to their genomes are the result of mutations.

Lol, then why do developing chicken embryos briefly have teeth?

Evolution has 0 to do with why I am an atheist. Most people that are atheists don't have evolution contribute to it.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Your argument is also full of holes, and is not readable.
 
Upvote 0

Snappy1

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2018
858
601
34
Arkansas
✟45,041.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
In Relationship
This would be a good post if someone actually ya know....read it.
 
Upvote 0

Snappy1

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2018
858
601
34
Arkansas
✟45,041.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,409
3,198
Hartford, Connecticut
✟358,453.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

I agree in principal, just wanted to point out, while the explosion itself might havel lasted some 50 million years in expanse, it occurred around 500-550 million years ago, as opposed to the 20-50 million years ago, which would have place the cambrian some time in the cenozoic. I suspect this was just a typo.
 
Reactions: USincognito
Upvote 0

Snappy1

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2018
858
601
34
Arkansas
✟45,041.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Yes.
In this case, I, the student, am better than the teacher.
I'm guessing you're just as good of a teacher as you are a student.
 
Upvote 0

Snappy1

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2018
858
601
34
Arkansas
✟45,041.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
In Relationship
lol

That level of self-contradiction without the faintest hint of understanding probably demonstrates you are both a bad teacher and a bad student.
My good sir, I'll have you know you're speaking to the geologist that declared that rocks are alive.

Edit: Sorry, claims he's a geologist, all evidence to the contrary obviously.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0