Nephilim?

[HiddenMe]

Has anyone looked up on this?? They are fallen angels and human hybrids. They existed in Noah's days and still do. I just want to let everyone know that the KJV bible translates nephilim into "giants"...it made me thinks things over....just look it up. Its interesting

EDIT I say still exists because in one verse, I can't remember it 100%, says that they were there in Noah's days and after. Signifying after as j. After the flood.

 

[TillICollapse]

I find most are well aware of Gen 6 and the Sons of God/Nephilim controversy. Here's a few recent threads if you like:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7782756/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7808073/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7801680/
http://www.christianforums.com/t7757440/

And if you really want to blow your mind, read Enoch I, specifically the Book of the Watchers (skip down to Chapter 6 if you wish):

The Book of Enoch, Section I

 

[Old Ned]

Has anyone looked up on this?? They are fallen angels and human hybrids. They existed in Noah's days and still do. I just want to let everyone know that the KJV bible translates nephilim into "giants"...it made me thinks things over....just look it up. Its interesting

They still exist today? Where?
Never heard of one being seen or documented.

And the translation in the KJV... well, that's arguable.

This story has lead to the breed that believe Alien Abductions are actually Nephilim and the space ships are gods protective shroud etc etc.
All I see is once again people desperately looking for some sort of vague link in the bible that explains something modern that was never mentioned in the bible.

Why can't people just take the bible for what it is? Surely if you truely believe then you don't have to reinterpret things and try to prove it right, this just shows fear that it is not correct and it IS fallible... In my opinion, a true believer simply believes what it says and has no need to defend it because they believe it truly in their heart... even though the heart only pumps blood

 

[Sayre]

They still exist today? Where?
Never heard of one being seen or documented.

And the translation in the KJV... well, that's arguable.

This story has lead to the breed that believe Alien Abductions are actually Nephilim and the space ships are gods protective shroud etc etc.
All I see is once again people desperately looking for some sort of vague link in the bible that explains something modern that was never mentioned in the bible.

Why can't people just take the bible for what it is? Surely if you truely believe then you don't have to reinterpret things and try to prove it right, this just shows fear that it is not correct and it IS fallible... In my opinion, a true believer simply believes what it says and has no need to defend it because they believe it truly in their heart... even though the heart only pumps blood

We believe things in our heart because that's where people used to believe the centre of our body was and where our beliefs and thoughts and mind was - not in the brain.

And yeah - I agree. People who actually valued the bible as inspired, inerrant and infallible text wouldn't go around making up stories willy nilly to explain strange stuff like the "giants". They would let it be what it is.

Hint: myth.

 

[Old Ned]

We believe things in our heart because that's where people used to believe the centre of our body was and where our beliefs and thoughts and mind was - not in the brain.

And yeah - I agree. People who actually valued the bible as inspired, inerrant and infallible text wouldn't go around making up stories willy nilly to explain strange stuff like the "giants". They would let it be what it is.

Hint: myth.

lol I know where the phrase comes from, I was being sarcastic

And yes exactly, if you truly believe it then just believe it... to keep making up extra stories like these of Nephilims and aliens and the like and dinosaurs on the ark from an extremely vague line about Behemoths , twisted and spun to come to a conclusion of dinosaurs is childish at best.

I would have more respect for a believer who just says "Nope, the bible says different"
Even someone who would say "Nope, Dinosaurs didn't exist, I can't explain the bones and I don't care"
This commands more respect than constantly changing their ideas and definitions to suit an argument against new evidence to the contrary.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would have more respect for a believer who just says "Nope, the bible says different"

* cough cough *

Excuse me ... * cough * ... carry on.

 

[Old Ned]

* cough cough *

Excuse me ... * cough * ... carry on.

And I have said many times Av that that is why I respect you more than most, because most of the time you will just say "Nope"
You have your moments too though...2+2=5?

 

[Strathos]

I don't think they still exist on earth.

 

[Dizredux]

This is something that has interested me because 2+2 can equal five for sufficiently large values of 2.

2.6+2.6=5.2.

Games admittedly but interesting.

Dizredux

 

[JustMeSee]

This is something that has interested me because 2+2 can equal five for sufficiently large values of 2.

2.6+2.6=5.2.

Games admittedly but interesting.

Dizredux

Interesting math you have there. Why not 6 or 10?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why not 6 or 10?

23/3 + 24/4 = 6

 

[ChetSinger]

I don't think any exist anymore. I think they'd stand out if they did.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I asked a Jewish Rabbi once about the Nephillim. (And I didn't record the exchange and don't remember the gentleman's name; it was a Jewish educational website.)

He told me the ancient Jewish scholars accepted the translation as meaning 'fallen angels', but without any further explanation - of how they fell, or why and so forth.

He went on to explain this view had changed over time (and I'm sure various types of Rabbis would still argue the matter, but probably not in front of Gentiles) and the current understanding was simply 'giant' - but again without any explanation of from where they came or their DNA make up or if they looked like Ted Cassidy.

However, from a Bible believing student of the Bible, there is NO particular doctrine or tenet of either Judaism or Christianity which depends on the nephilim. The mention of them (in two episodes) seem to be incidental to the main stream of thought, almost a foot note.

I have half a notion this may be a reference to the interbreeding of early Cro Magnon man with Neanderthal man. But I'm not going to lose sleep over it if I'm wrong.

Just for the record, it seems the reference to the interbreeding of 'them' and 'us' happened prior to the flood event. So unless Noah was a result of such interbreeding, they all died in the flood. If Noah was a result of such interbreeding, then we are all such hybrids. (Too late to worry about it.)

 

[TillICollapse]

However, from a Bible believing student of the Bible, there is NO particular doctrine or tenet of either Judaism or Christianity which depends on the nephilim. The mention of them (in two episodes) seem to be incidental to the main stream of thought, almost a foot note.

How are you using the terms "doctrine and tenet" here ? Plenty of people who claim to believe in the Bible and call themselves Christians also claim various beliefs regarding the nephilim (one such belief is that the spirits of the nephilim are "demons", etc). That at the very least, seems like a "tenet" to me, if nothing else. I'm not arguing anything concerning the topic itself, only regarding what you mean by tenets and doctrines. Is this a True Scotsman thing ?

 

[PersephonesTear]

How are you using the terms "doctrine and tenet" here ? Plenty of people who claim to believe in the Bible and call themselves Christians also claim various beliefs regarding the nephilim (one such belief is that the spirits of the nephilim are "demons", etc). That at the very least, seems like a "tenet" to me, if nothing else. I'm not arguing anything concerning the topic itself, only regarding what you mean by tenets and doctrines. Is this a True Scotsman thing ?

I don't think it is a True Scotsman type of statement because - suppose demons are either drowned Nephilim or they are fallen angels, but not both? Either origin for the demonic does not seem to change or have any bearing on how we, as Christians, are supposed to handle them.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

How are you using the terms "doctrine and tenet" here ? Plenty of people who claim to believe in the Bible and call themselves Christians also claim various beliefs regarding the nephilim (one such belief is that the spirits of the nephilim are "demons", etc). That at the very least, seems like a "tenet" to me, if nothing else. I'm not arguing anything concerning the topic itself, only regarding what you mean by tenets and doctrines. Is this a True Scotsman thing ?

Not using the 'True Scotsman' thing intentionally. (By the way, I am of Scottish ancestry, according to my surname and family oral tradition.)

There is no doctrine which demands the 'giants' to be anything in particular, in order that - any number of things, such as '...therefore Moses lived...' or '...therefore Jesus rose from the dead..." or '...that proves cheese grows mold!'.

What you describe is a 'theory of explanation'. Maybe they were 'this' or maybe they were "that'.

However, supply my want here: Does the 'demon' idea lead anywhere? Are they then the ones who serve Satan here? Or are they responsible for any other catastrophe? I am unaware of anything past the question of what the heck they really were.

 

[TillICollapse]

I don't think it is a True Scotsman type of statement because - suppose demons are either drowned Nephilim or they are fallen angels, but not both? Either origin for the demonic does not seem to change or have any bearing on how we, as Christians, are supposed to handle them.

That's not how I was meaning "True Scotsman". It had nothing to do with the topic of what nephilim are or aren't, rather, those with beliefs concerning the topic in Christianity.

The post I was responding to was framing the comment in the apparent context of a Bible believing Christian having no doctrine or tenet depending on their understanding of nephilim. IOW, is someone who claims to believe in the Bible and also be a Christian, yet DOES have a doctrine or tenet depending on the nephilim ... not a "true Christian" ?

I was anticipating a certain type of response, but didn't want to be rude and go ahead and assume that type of response. Thus, I asked "Is this a True Scotsman thing ?" hoping to clarify before assuming and putting words in someone's mouth. It had nothing to do with the beliefs specifically, rather the statement about NO doctrines or tenets within Christianity concerning it and what that was implying. Whatever your responding to is not what I was addressing.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Hello, Tear; I didn't see your post when I replied. You did in fact understand what I wrote as I intended.

Till I Collapse. Yes, I understand the 'True Scotsman' fallacy. If I did in fact commit that, it was not intentional.

I'll re-phrase: I am unaware of any chain of reasoning in Christianity which (1) depends on the Nephillim being anything in particular while simultaneously (2) having a bearing on how we, as Christians, are suppose to act or respond to God.

Consequently, the Nephillim are completely unimportant to my understanding of God, salvation or my relationship to either God or man. If it were more important, I am passing certain there would be more information on the subject. I rather expect to find out the details when I arrive in Eternity.

If you know of any such belief, please tell me.

 

[TillICollapse]

Not using the 'True Scotsman' thing intentionally. (By the way, I am of Scottish ancestry, according to my surname and family oral tradition.)

No true Scotsman would use the True Scotsman intentionally.

(har har har) lol

There is no doctrine which demands the 'giants' to be anything in particular, in order that - any number of things, such as '...therefore Moses lived...' or '...therefore Jesus rose from the dead..." or '...that proves cheese grows mold!'.

What you describe is a 'theory of explanation'. Maybe they were 'this' or maybe they were "that'.

You still didn't directly answer my question really ... in what way are you specifically using the word "doctrine" or "tenet" ? You may have kinda/sorta answered it with "theory of explanation", because the way I would use the word "tenet" would be a step above "theory of explanation". If someone does not believe it to be theory, but believes it to be factual (i.e. nephilim became demons, or Sons of God were angels, etc) that would at least be a "tenet" of their belief. So again, saying there is no such tenets involving nephilim in Christianity seems flat out wrong, based on the fact that many who claim to be Christians believe thusly (tons of websites, for example). It's been awhile since I've done a proper study on it, but concerning "doctrine" ... I do specifically remember some of the Early Church Fathers and such claiming things along these lines, and (I'm pulling this out of my youknowhat a bit ) I recall that even the Book of Enoch is part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church ? I do not ascribe to their faith, but I'm sure they call themselves Christian. So perhaps "doctrine" might fit concerning their branch ?

So perhaps what *you* meant by doctrine and tenet needs some clarification.

However, supply my want here: Does the 'demon' idea lead anywhere? Are they then the ones who serve Satan here? Or are they responsible for any other catastrophe? I am unaware of anything past the question of what the heck they really were.

Like I said, it's been awhile since I've done a proper study so I'm not going to be reference ready, but I'm sure quick Googles will feed this want lol:

From what I understand, the idea is that the fallen angels who helped to create the nephilim in the past, may come again to the earth at a future point in time. Some of the various spirits mentioned in Revelations would also allude to the idea that doctrines of demons would be at play, and that the "fathers" of said demons would also return and be part of the end times scenarios (what once was, now is not, yet will be, etc). What comes out of the abyss, as it was in the days of Noah, so on and so forth. So what they may have been, would reveal more about the nature of the state of the world, society and the goals of society and the end times scenarios, etc, as well as the *whys* behind what the "demons" were able to cause in people and people's reactions to their presence, etc and so forth. I actually thought most Christians who frequently debated such topics were aware there are various camps that often debate these things over and over and over and over (I mean, above and beyond the internet even lol).

 

[TillICollapse]

Hello, Tear; I didn't see your post when I replied. You did in fact understand what I wrote as I intended.

Till I Collapse. Yes, I understand the 'True Scotsman' fallacy. If I did in fact commit that, it was not intentional.

I'll re-phrase: I am unaware of any chain of reasoning in Christianity which (1) depends on the Nephillim being anything in particular while simultaneously (2) having a bearing on how we, as Christians, are suppose to act or respond to God.

Consequently, the Nephillim are completely unimportant to my understanding of God, salvation or my relationship to either God or man. If it were more important, I am passing certain there would be more information on the subject. I rather expect to find out the details when I arrive in Eternity.

If you know of any such belief, please tell me.

Sorry, I'm pretty slow on the draw tonight ... I'm multi-tasking, and getting droopy eyed (but not enough to fall asleep lol). I responded in my last post, before knowing this one was even here.

Your clarification helps a bit for me to understand what you meant ... stating "There is NO" and "I am unaware of" are two different things When people make absolute statements, especially in regards to issues dealing with beliefs within Christianity that are almost as varied as all of the religions combined lol ... I am sometimes interested in clarifying what they meant by those absolutes lol. So thanks for clarifying Slainte (oops, that's Irish, not Scottish lol)