Neo-Nestorianism in Modern Protestant thought?

[bbbbbbb]

I do not understand what you mean by wincing at the "inaccurate phraseology of the 'deification' of Mary", which part did I say that was inaccurate? I also do not know what you mean by "the extreme fringe of Catholicism".

Anglian exhorted me to not use the term "deification" without explaining it because it is a term unfamiliar to many Protestants. Some Protestants use the word "glorification" to express the process by which we are made "in the image of Christ", at St. Paul says. That is to say, the process by which we become holy, like God, and able to live in Heaven with Him. I'm sorry if I caused confusion. I believe I said, "deification (salvation)" to equivocate between those two terms. I hope that clarifies things.

Thank you, as well as Anglian, for the clarification. I think you understand my concern about deification. I looked up the word in dictionary.com and came up with the following:

de⋅i⋅fi⋅ca⋅tion [dee-uh-fi-key-shuh

n] –noun

1. the act of deifying.
2. the state of being deified.
3. the result of deifying: Their gods were deifications of their ancient kings.

Origin:
1350&#8211;1400; ME deificacion < LL deific&#257;ti&#333;n- (s. of deific&#257;ti&#333, equiv. to deific&#257;t(us) (ptp. of deific&#257;re; deific(us) deific + -&#257;tus -ate 1 ) + -i&#333;n- -ion

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

Link To deification

Related Words for : deification
apotheosis, exaltation
View more related words »

de·i·fi·ca·tion (d&#275;'&#601;-f&#301;-k&#257;'sh&#601;n, d&#257;'-) n.

1. 1. The act or process of deifying.
   2. The condition of being deified.
2. One that embodies the qualities of a god.

That seemed to me to be a rather circular definition, so I also looked up deify and came up with the following:


de&#8901;i&#8901;fy /&#712;di

&#601;&#716;fa&#618;/ [dee-uh-fahy]

&#8211;verb (used with object), -fied, -fy&#8901;ing.

1. to make a god of; exalt to the rank of a deity; personify as a deity: to deify a beloved king.
2. to adore or regard as a deity: to deify wealth.

Origin:
1300&#8211;50; ME deifien < OF deifier < LL deific&#257;re. See deification, -ify

Related forms:
de&#8901;i&#8901;fi&#8901;er, noun

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009. http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=deify&ia=luna
Link To deify


de·i·fy (d&#275;'&#601;-f&#299;', d&#257;'-) tr.v. dei·fied, dei·fy·ing, dei·fies

1. To make a god of; raise to the condition of a god.
2. To worship or revere as a god: deify a leader.
3. To idealize; exalt: deifying success.

As you can see, the standard definition involves actually making a god of, or raising to the condition of a god. Unfortunately, most of us non-Catholics hold that definition.

I think that in the future you should avoid confusion and use glorification, instead.

Thanks again.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I think that in the future you should avoid confusion and use glorification, instead.

Unfortunately, that's not a solution. Glorification means something different in Eastern theology (similar to canonization) and is not a Western Catholic term relating to the state of the blessed (i.e. apart from glorifying God). It's particular to some forms of Protestantism. It's better to use our own terms when referring to our own theology because using someone else's term can imply things that we don't mean.

While I said that we are referring to largely the same things when we use the terms theosis, deificiation, divinization, or glorification -- the last is rather different. In my understanding of the Protestant term "glorification", it refers to a particular event that occurs at the Resurrection of the Dead:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption; and this mortal must put on immortality. And when this mortal hath put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?

They refer to being "washed in the Blood of the Lamb":

These are they who are come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The Protestant notion of "glorification" (I don't know how many denominations use this term) is, I think, related to their notion of imputed righteousness. It is the idea that sinful man gets a "cloak" of righteousness or Jesus sneaks sinners into Heaven like Odysseus' men escaping the Cyclopes tied under sheep. So the idea is we "accept Jesus into our heart", die / get raptured, wait for the Resurrection, and then "receive our heavenly bodies" in an event called "glorificiation".


The Orthodox-Catholic theology sees salvation/theosis/divinization/deification as a process. We are becoming like God now (hopefully). and this process of becoming like God, this process of salvation, is continual. Traditional Christian theology does not accept Luther's "imputed righteousness" but rather "infused righteousness". That is to say, we are not sinful individuals snuck into Heaven but rather people in the rocky process of becoming holy.

But we all, beholding the glory of the Lord with open face, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord.

So our different understandings of salvation means that we cannot use the same terminology. It would be a denial of our faith to adopt the Protestant term glorification instead of deification, divinization, or theosis.

 

[Anglian]

Dear PilgrimtoChrist,

That was one of the best accounts of the differences between our theology and that of the Protestants - outstanding post. Thanks.

peace,

Anglian

 

[Polycarp1]

Dear PilgrimtoChrist,

That was one of the best accounts of the differences between our theology and that of the Protestants - outstanding post. Thanks.

peace,

Anglian

Beautiful job!

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

*blush*

 

[Christos Anesti]

As you can see, the standard definition involves actually making a god of, or raising to the condition of a god. Unfortunately, most of us non-Catholics hold that definition.

Thats exactly what it is . We become god by grace. As St Athanasius said " For the Son of God became man, that we might become god".

"He has called men gods that are deified of His Grace, not born of His Substance."

- St Augustine

"the Word became flesh and the Son of God became the Son of Man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God"

&#8212;St. Irenaeus, Adv Haer III 19,1

Souls wherein the Spirit dwells, illuminated by the Spirit, themselves become spiritual, and send forth their grace to others. Hence comes . . . abiding in God, the being made like to God, and, highest of all, the being made God

&#8212;St. Basil the Great, On the Spirit

let us become the image of the one whole God, bearing nothing earthly in ourselves, so that we may consort with God and become gods, receiving from God our existence as gods

&#8212;St. Maximus the Confessor

'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."

- St Symeon the New Theologian