Pastor K

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Hi, I am a Pastor and Father of 4. My wife and I have been married for nearly 11 years. For the past 4-5 years my wife has slowly begun to pull away from me physically, relationally and even spiritually. At this point, she refuses to kiss me, pulls away when I hug her, and we haven't been together "intimately" for 7 months (we've been intimate 3 times in 2 years). When she is home, she is quieter than normal and buries herself in correcting homework (she is a teacher), or she'll justify not spending time with myself (or our children) by attempting to keep the house absolutely spotless.
I have asked her to attend marriage counseling with me, and every time I ask, it usually ends in an argument. When she does speak to me, it is often very critical and negative, and I see this also happening in her relationship with our kids.
As a pastor, I feel it is important to have an active spiritual relationship with my family (obviously). I am very spiritually active in my children's lives, and have attempted to do so in my wife's life since day one. Her simple response, is that her relationship with God is her business and that I will never be her spiritual leader, so I need not try. This has also been a point of contention for many years, but have yet to make any positive progress.
She is active in her faith with her female friends, and is far more cordial and "nice" to them than she is to her own family. She leads a women's ministry that is effective and seems to have positive fruit.
In any case. I don't believe she has been un-faithful, although I admit the question has crossed my mind. But neither do I believe that our marriage is following the Biblical roles that God presents in His Word. I have tried to breach the subject many times with her, and it usually ends with her crying and not talking, or her taking off for a "drive". When I tell her that I love her, she will respond "love you too", but it is very empty if you know what I mean. I have tried for years to get her to "fall in love with me" again, but none of Chapman's "5 Love Languages" seem to work; she simply refuses to accept love, and if she is trying at all to show it, she is surely struggling.

I could use some suggestions from wives out there who've been in similar circumstances (husbands too if you have positive suggestions). My wife is in her early 30's and has had a child in the last year (Child was literally 1/365 chance if you know what I mean). The Hormones are obviously something to consider, but it doesn't explain the steady decline over 4 years.

Please feel free to lend me your thoughts, and if I am in the wrong please feel free to let me know. My desire is to encourage her and bring her out of this "funk", not chastise her or guilt her into the facade of a healthier relationship.

Blessings,

Pastor K,
 

pdudgeon

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do you know your wife's family or her history with them? especially with her father?
i may be wrong, but i think that might need some looking into.
secondly have you had a chance to observe or ask her how she sees herself both as a woman and as a wife? as a preacher's wife she might be feeling overwhelmed in such a role, and could be having trouble separating the job title from the person that she is and who is screaming inside to get out.

if she is pulling away from intimacy there's a reason behind that as well.
she might feel overwhelmed by her family--as wondrful as they are--and need time to herself to rediscover who she is and that there's much more to her than just being a wife and mother.
as important as those roles are, she is a woman and a person first. but that person might be in danger of being swallowed whole in the roles that she has to fill.

i would suggest setting aside a regular day each week where she does things for herself. she needs to feel both important, worthy of love, and cherished just because of who she is, not because of what she is or what she does. and as a pastor's wife and mother, it's very easy to become so busy keeping track of everyone else that you loose track of yourself.

but somewhere inside is the girl she once was, full of hopes and dreams who probably needs to have a play day in order to reconnect and see just how special she really is.
 
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blackribbon

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See if she would go to counseling alone...someone able to write prescriptions (I am thinking an antidepressant may be needed even if for a short period of time)...even have her get a recommendation from her OB so that it is less confrontational. I would lean toward postpartum depression or clinical depression or she is interested in someone else even if it hasn't moved beyond an emotional affair. And then make sure you continue to court her....tell her you love her and make her a priority...
 
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Pastor K

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Thank you Both for the Wisdom. Her parents relationship is also complicated. Her mother and father are happily married, but her father is far from the spiritual leader in their home (partially why my wife doesn't trust me to be hers). Her relationship with her father is strong, although not particularly healthy... She love him, but treats him rather dis-respectfully in my personal opinion. Her mother also treats her father disrespectfully even though he seems to tolerate it. I do know (although I often wish I didn't) that her parents still have a healthy physical relationship in spite of their un-unusual matriarchal arrangement.
My wife actually gets out pretty often. I would say once every 2 weeks she is able to get out for 8-10 hours and spend time with her mom or her friends away from the kids and myself. Each Wednesday she has about 4 hours after school where she is by herself at the school with freedom to do as she wishes alone. I do agree that her role's do exhaust her. I would love for her to not teach and have more time for herself, but I believe she actually re-charges her batteries through teaching. I will spend some time praying and thinking about how best to arrange more alone time for her, thank you for the idea.
I will also pray about approaching her for independent counseling. I admit I haven't considered that yet. As for the potential for an emotional affair, she did admit to me during our last argument that she thinks I should have married someone else instead of her.... That was a red flag, but I refuse to let my mind wander without any proof.
I agree it is important to keep "courting" or "wooing" her, but I must admit I am growing weary from the rejection. Gifts given, favors done, often are met with criticism and any physical vulnerability I show is often met with stern rejection.

Thank you!
Blessings,
 
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blackribbon

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I agree it is important to keep "courting" or "wooing" her, but I must admit I am growing weary from the rejection. Gifts given, favors done, often are met with criticism and any physical vulnerability I show is often met with stern rejection.

I know that it is hard on you to not get anything back but if she does leave, you will never feel the guilt for not trying hard enough. This is your chance to love her like God loves you...unconditionally. Stop expecting anything and take anything you get as a gift, not as "FINALLY".

If she is having a mental/emotional affair, then you won't give her any room to say that you didn't give her enough attention or support. She is probably trying to push you to the point where she can justify her dissatisfaction.

If she is medically depressed, then she just can't feel much of anything or can only feel dissatisfaction, emptiness, and a void of emotions. Please don't rule this out as a distinct possibility...and if so, it most likely will take medication to get her back...This is a medical problem where the brain chemicals are imbalanced and need intervention the same as diabetes needs interventions.
 
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pdudgeon

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Thank you Both for the Wisdom. Her parents relationship is also complicated. Her mother and father are happily married, but her father is far from the spiritual leader in their home (partially why my wife doesn't trust me to be hers). Her relationship with her father is strong, although not particularly healthy... She love him, but treats him rather dis-respectfully in my personal opinion. Her mother also treats her father disrespectfully even though he seems to tolerate it. I do know (although I often wish I didn't) that her parents still have a healthy physical relationship in spite of their un-unusual matriarchal arrangement.
My wife actually gets out pretty often. I would say once every 2 weeks she is able to get out for 8-10 hours and spend time with her mom or her friends away from the kids and myself. Each Wednesday she has about 4 hours after school where she is by herself at the school with freedom to do as she wishes alone. I do agree that her role's do exhaust her. I would love for her to not teach and have more time for herself, but I believe she actually re-charges her batteries through teaching. I will spend some time praying and thinking about how best to arrange more alone time for her, thank you for the idea.
I will also pray about approaching her for independent counseling. I admit I haven't considered that yet. As for the potential for an emotional affair, she did admit to me during our last argument that she thinks I should have married someone else instead of her.... That was a red flag, but I refuse to let my mind wander without any proof.
I agree it is important to keep "courting" or "wooing" her, but I must admit I am growing weary from the rejection. Gifts given, favors done, often are met with criticism and any physical vulnerability I show is often met with stern rejection.

Thank you!
Blessings,

nope, she does need more time just for herself.
That doesn't include time spent doing weekly lesson plans at school, nor spending time with her mom which is just another caretaker committment on her shoulders.

and yep, if her parents had a 'roll-reversal marriage' (ie 'liberated woman') then she needs marriage counseling, because that's not what a Christian marriage is all about, and as such she has no role model of a real Christian marriage to go by--only her parent's worldly model.

There is a vast difference in the expectations of what today passes for a worldly civil marriage.
(which is actually more like a business contract :someone is the boss and the other person is the employee)

as you might expect, the worldly marrige model is based upon living up to expectations and exceeding performance expectations.
this is where your wife's comment that you should have married another person is comming from. she sees herself as a failure and not living up to those standards or expectations.

The Christian marriage model OTOH is based on mutual sacrifice and respect and devotion, and mutual committment for life, that has the love of God given to and received from Him as it's foundation. in otherwords, the two arms of the cross.

so here's what i would suggest. for both of you, because you're in this marriage together.

there is a website called Formed www.formed.org
and on that website is a program called "Beloved", parts 1 &2
it is a Christian marriage program that teaches what a Christian marriage is all about.
it is possible to buy a single subscription to the site, and with that purchase you then have access to the entire streaming of the whole website and all it's programs and movies.
usually the accompanying workbooks for the programs cost about $25.00 each.
think of it as an investment in your marriage.

(disclaimer: i have no association at all with the website itself nor is there any financial interest involved in my recomendation)
 
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LinkH

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In response to the OP,

I am a man, so I hope you don't mind if I respond. My wife is a dynamic individual. She also likes to pray, go to intercessor meetings, and be involved in various types of ministry. Several years ago, she was leading a woman's discipleship meeting, a small group which was part of a larger women's meeting at a church. It really seemed to be bearing fruit. I am not sure if she still had this going on during the time period I am discussing, but that gives a little bit of background about her.

When she got pregnant the first time, she got into this mode where she was really disrespectful to me. She had been so sweet for two years. Then, it was a constant stream of criticism. She was like that up through the end of post-partum blues, but part of that time we were in the US, a new country for her, and staying with my parents. So it was a high stress time. And eventually, she got out of the critical mode. Probably she felt convicted about it.

The last time she was pregnant, she got like that again. As a husband, I wanted to be kind and gentle with her especially because she was pregnant. She'd get upset over the smallest thing. One time I said something so generic and neutral to her, and she broke down crying. She left the house. She'd never done that before. I found out when I saw the car was not in it's parking space outside. Fortunately, she went to a trustworthy older woman's house, a Filippina we knew, who advised her to call me. We agreed for her to spend the night there and come back in time to drive the kids to school in the morning.

I'd been shocked at her disrespect toward me when I was trying to put dishes away, how she rudely bumped me aside and did it her way. At that point, I started thinking about it. She wasn't normally like this, but there was a seed of it that would show up from time to time, and it had occurred to me that I had not consistently prayed for her about it. I realized I was wrong in that area.

So when she was gone that night, I prayed for her to the Lord. My wife had just told me about a word of knowledge she'd gotten for someone, and something that person said that confirmed it. I remembered that. And I told the Lord if he could talk to her about these other people, He could talk to her about her own issues with respect toward me, etc. So I went through a detailed list of things.

I posted a message about this on this forum probably in late 2011 or early 2012 that contained the phrase 'miraculous answers to pray' or something along those lines. I had maybe seven things I'd prayed for.

My argument before the Lord was that it was not His will that His children behave in this manner. I knew He loved His daughter and wanted her to improve in these areas. And the Bible says anything we ask according to His will, we know that we have it. So I knew that He would do what I asked. It was one of those times where I could tell that I believed that I had what I'd prayed for. I had prayed the Lord would speak to her to correct her about these things.

A few nights later, she came back from this 'life change' ministry she was going to. She came back home and was sitting on the coach and invited me to sit next to her.

Uh-oh, did she want to argue or criticize me? Based on the past weeks or months, that was what that would mean. But she had a rather affectionate loving look on her face, so I sat down. She started telling me I was a good husband and giving me reasons why she was saying that. And she started to apologize.

She told me that the Lord had spoken to her that night. At the meeting they were talking about anger that night. Part of the night was spent with small groups discussing at a table. They talked about anger issues. My wife thought to herself that it did not apply to her. Then the leader at the table said if you get upset at your husband for the way he does the dishes, you probably have an anger problem. I think the leader may have said something else that she did. She realized she had an issue that the Lord wanted to deal with.

At great length, she took me through what the Lord had told her about maybe five of my seven prayer requests. I'd tried to talk to her about some of these issues, and it had turned into an argument, and some I had just not been able to bring up. She mentioned issues I'd prayed about how like how her dad and step-mom's relationship hadn't given her a good role model in some ways for marriage and gave her some wrong expectations. I'd been wanting to mention that to her. She told me about certain ways she'd let her mind think negative thoughts about me that weren't true-- something I specifically prayed about. It went on and on down my prayer list. If I'd prayed a sentence, and she was telling me a couple of prayers about each sentence.

Over the next several weeks, she came to me on different occassions and told me how the Lord spoke to her about other things. For example, I'd prayed something related to I Peter 3, and she came to me telling me how the Lord had spoken to her about that. I am purposefully being vague about it because this forum does not allow discussion of wives submitting to their husbands the last I checked.

The great thing about this was after the prayer and the Lord working on her, she really changed. She just became so sweet. For a while there, though, I'd see her standing alone by herself crying. She'd remember some harsh word she'd said to me, and was crying because of doing that. She'd apologize. It was like our marriage reset. We stayed up talking, one night until 2 AM, just enjoying each other's company as if we were newly weds. It's like emotionally, we went through another Honeymood period (though she was quite far along in the pregnancy, so it wasn't exactly like a Honeymoon.)

After that, if she behaved in ways that were disrespectful to me (which could happen a bit a few months later), I'd call her on it right away. Like once she was being a bit bossy talking to me with her hands on her hips and I pointed that out. I didn't like it, so I told her. I realized there is a lot of stuff in the Psalms about rebuking someone you love appropriately.

These issues in my marriage were mostly helped by God working on my wife, but I can do my own part. My wife has her own relationship with God. I don't see where the Bible uses 'spiritual leader' for the man. It does say the man is the head, and encourages women to ask their husbands questions. The Bible speaks of the bride being washed with the water of the word.

I am thinking now I probably need to pray more with my wife, and not just briefly. I am probably better at doing that with the kids. But one thing I started doing with my wife from time to time, is just reading the Bible to her. It didn't have to be anything fancy. I know she knows a lot of stuff.

For you, I just wanted to encourage you to pray for your wife, and pray with faith. If you know it is not God's will for your wife to behave a certain way, then take that verse about knowing you have what you ask for if it is God's will and run with it. (I can't really think of a good case for the 'Calvinist' type usage of the 'will of God' in the Bible, the idea that everything that happens is His will.) Pray in faith and believe God.

Other things you might try are the type of rebuking in Proverbs. If she's billigerent, then that may be difficult, since it can turn into an argument. I have found at times, calling my wife on doing something wrong or displaying a bad attitude toward me can be effective on the occasions it happens.

My wife is a good wife, too. She's a blessing to so many people, myself included. She has gone through some grumpy times, and like all of us, there are things that need 'tweeking.' I'm sure she could describe many things about my that have changed and how she's prayed for me, too. I know posts like this can seem one-sided.

If the women's ministry is from your church, and she's teaching the young women, but isn't there for you or her own children, you should also consider your pastoral responsibilities. She may recharge her emotionally batteries doing this ministry, but if she reproduces herself in these people so to speak, when she has these marriage problems, is that really a good thing. I know I am talking about something that could lead to a big argument, but you have to consider it.

Some women may be the type that will fight you tooth and nail over a decision, be angry at you, but later not respect you if you didn't hold your ground. About some things, you may need to have to risk her arguing with you if you need to make a decision and you are in the right, and let her cool down or whatever.

As far as affairs go, I don't anything about your wife. It wasn't an issue with my wife's attitude, but of course she was pregnant at the time of the events I posted about. Even if she said you should have married someone else, that doesn't necessarily mean she is having an affair. You could be on the lookout for clues. Pray about it. Don't become irrationally jealous, of course. Some women turn cold emotionally toward their husbands because of affairs. Some just turn cold for other reasons. Your wife is distant from her children, you say. So some people are thinking depression rather than an affair.

Maybe you could read up on depression, talk to her, and see if she has any symptoms. If she is distant from you, that doesn't mean she has a medical condition. As far as meds go, Americans take so many times more meds than the rest of the world. I am not saying medicine couldn't help, but if there is some other spiritual or practical solution, maybe she could take that.

Is there something she likes doing with you? Does she like going for walks? Does she like talking for hours? Did she in the past? If it's a steady stream of criticism toward you, I wouldn't go for that for hours if I were you, until that attitude got changed. Maybe there are some activities you can do together.

If her attitude toward you and other issues are a sore point, you could talk to her about how important it is to have prayer in the family. Then you could tell her you wanted to spend some time praying and reading the Bible with her and with the kids every day or every night.

What I have found with my wife, is on rare occasions, we'll get into a rut where we don't get along. Usually this happens during times of stress, like during unemployment, extended visits to in-laws, etc. Basically, she'll often say things critical of me-- sometimes legitimate, sometimes not. Then something about the way I talk to her comes off as I don't want to engage with her. So that puts her in a more critical mode. It's a cycle. So if that starts happening, I'll just ask her to pray with me. We confess our sins to each other, ask God for help. That's gotten us out of that cycle. On her end, if she's being negative and critical, I think she knows it and doesn't want to be that way.

We went through a week or two of that cycle a few months back while visiting my mom for a while. We went outside, prayed through, and asked God for help, and that stopped the cycle and we could get back on track with a more normal relationship where we can enjoy each other's company again. Relationship issues can be hard to fix, but there are not to hard for the Lord.
 
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dayhiker

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Hi Pastor K .. tough situation. Some good suggestions with her getting counseling for herself, depression, praying together and giving her more space. I didn't sense that those rang a bell for you. In many ways I don't think any of us will know till she tells you. I don't get the feeling that she is telling you what she thinks is going on. Do you think she is intentionally hiding? If she isn't willing to tell you what she thinks is going on, you might ask her if you can talk with her parents saying you don't have any fresh ideas about what parts of your marriage aren't working and you would like their insight into her personality.

One of the things I like about message boards is people can come up with many thoughts on why things aren't working. So I have a couple of other thoughts with not idea if they have any truth in them.

One do you think she is offended by something you did in the past and might be continuing to do and she doesn't want to talk with you about it?

The other is out there, but happens. Could she have struggled with same sex attraction? Church people can be pretty good at hiding that if they feel a lot of shame around it from their youth on. That might fit her pulling away from you and enjoying her work with women.

Just a couple more thoughts to add to the list. Would be so nice if it were depression and some medication would start to turn things around.
 
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sommer12

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Hey there! It is amazing that you are putting yourself out there for your wife. That is admirable to allow yourself to be honest and vulnerable. I am a wife that has pushed away from her husband and I cannot say what she is going through. I can only speak for myself and pray that you find comfort.
I started pushing away from my husband because I was wrapped up in other time consuming tasks. Whenever he approached me physically I felt nauseous. At first I thought it was because I was sickened thinking that he only wanted one thing from me, but when I looked deeper I realized it was something worse and needed to take action. The truth is, I found myself finding less and less respect for him as time went by. I found myself being productive with the changes being done to our life and him stagnating. Bitterness grew. I started to resent him for not being passionate and consistent in pursuing his dreams.
In the book Love and Respect, the author points out that we wives desire to talk to our husbands. In any new marriage this is apparent. As time goes by if your wife begins to talk to you less and less that is something to be terribly worried about. Most of the time your wife starts to feel like she can't talk to you and fears what you will say to her opinions. Even if you are not an aggressive person, you can say something and not even realize that it just destroyed her.
My advice, KEEP PURSUING HER! You are doing a great job being a consistent figure in her life. Get her to open up to a counselor. If she is just opening up to a group of friends that will not help her. We all need a clear new perspective from someone that is unbiased (that's why we have forums). I'll be praying.
 
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HannahT

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As a pastor, I feel it is important to have an active spiritual relationship with my family (obviously). I am very spiritually active in my children's lives, and have attempted to do so in my wife's life since day one. Her simple response, is that her relationship with God is her business and that I will never be her spiritual leader, so I need not try. This has also been a point of contention for many years, but have yet to make any positive progress.

She could be feeling you are pushing and pressing into her life in some ways that feel suffocating. If she feels that way? You continuing the push the point will only make it worse. You can lead by example by showing fruits of the spirit.

You don't need to remind her of your role, and how you want to be her spiritual leader. Your point of contention seems be taken as salt in the wound, so try a different direction. Same goes with your viewpoint of biblical roles.

Could very well be she is taking as you as not satisfied with to much that she does, and that leaves people feeling hopeless. It could very well be you aren't making her feel comfortable in her own skin. From what you wrote she has been sending you signals of this, and it still never came up on your radar.

Could very well be she wants the man she married, and not the man that is using a book's step by step instructions that claim it will make it better. Books can be great tools, but you have to learn to put your own spin on them by working on the dynamics of the relationship that made you fall in love to begin with. People can feel it when others are just going through the motions of something with no true intention of change if the core issues are still there.

If she does feel rejected, not good enough, and constantly feels she can't live up to some standards you have in mind? Being intimate is very hard. It's like hugging a cactus.

Instead of asking her to go somewhere (therapy) to get fixed? Maybe concentrate on your own approach, and how you may have unintentionally caused her harm. It could very well be she feels just as rejected as you do.
 
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akmom

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I agree that it's hard for readers to pick up on what might be wrong with your wife, based on those details. It doesn't sound like she is giving you much to go on, and we only have the details you noticed and found relevant. Plus our own experiences as women, of course.

So obviously any guess is a just a guess, but there is one detail that just kept nagging at me. You said the baby was a 1/365 chance baby. What a coincidence. No intimacy, and then bam, one incident results in conception. That is perfectly possible. What is also possible is that the pregnancy came from an extramarital incident and all she needed was one session with you to make it appear legitimate. Just a suspicion.
 
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