Need advice

Heissonear · Nov 12, 2018

From my understanding, which some aligns with other posters:

1. Go to the source to confirm (pastor and his wife)

2. If so, find a new church

3. If not, (this is what I do) if an argument is fixing to start, stop talking completely (remain silent) other than once or twice say you love her; and before God have an inner prayer to Him that you love her (husbands love your wifes Scripture).

Item 3 may need time to mature.

Danielwright2311 · Nov 12, 2018

Live by example and be a good example.

Dave L · Nov 12, 2018

The more I think about it, use the Billy Graham rule and hold your pastor and wife accountable to it. The Billy Graham rule is a practice among male evangelical Protestant leaders, in which they avoid spending time alone with women to whom they are not married. It is named after Billy Graham, a proponent of the practice, although recently has also been called the Mike Pence rule.

ChristopherinLA · Nov 12, 2018

Thanks. I will try reminding her that I love her when we have conflict next time. It reminds me of 1 Peter 4:8 that I have hanging on my wall. "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins."

MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah · Nov 12, 2018

I used to be in a similar situation.
The thing to realize is, your pastor and his wife, and your wife. They're all humans.
Sometimes subconsciously we see them as holy, above us kind of people.
In which case, their words are more impactful.

First, your wife "betrays" you, because she should take your side if she loves you.
Second, your church leader "betrays" you, because he's supposed to be righteous and just.
Thirdly, these people who you thought were close to you, are gossiping. Which is a sin.

"Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it."

You should as you say, "overlook this", but overlook it with love.
If you must show enemies love, how much more your brother and sister in Jesus?
Don't hold it against them. Don't keep a bad thought about them in your heart. If you see them in person and have a bad thought or a pressure on your heart.
You carry the sin of murder.
As much as we like to play the victims, even if we are. We must find forgiveness.
Take example from our Lord.
He was sinless, He had everything in heaven, He came to this sinful world to be our servant. He caused no one harm, and even then he forgave those who persecuted him.
If that's the case, then what's it to us to hold against someone who gossips?
I assume you have enmity in your heart, because you are hurt and want another church. Also, because I had the same feelings in my situation.

Without love, there's nothing.
If you can't love your brother, then you can't love God. Then you can't obey the greatest commandment. Love God will all your heart, soul, mind, strength.
But with these in mind, don't let it create a barrier for accepting criticism.
Your pastor will learn from your love. He won't learn from your resentment.

ChristopherinLA · Nov 12, 2018

How would this solve my problem? Could you elaborate some more please?

MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah · Nov 12, 2018

Your pastor will learn from your love. He won't learn from your resentment.

whereloveandmercymeet · Nov 12, 2018

I don’t know you apart from your own description but I’d say in this context I wouldn’t call ‘militant’ a good description of you. Militant to me would be going to an abortion clinic and forcing your views on them, bullying them, physically stopping them. To me, praying outside is a strong indication of passion and compassion, whether you’re praying for the babies, mothers or staff. I’m not pro-life or pro-choice so it doesn’t come from a certain viewpoint. I know it’s not quite what you were asking but I know if my pastor had called me militant in my faith I would actually be a little hurt, because of my interpretation of what that implies, so I just wanted to say you don’t sound militant to me, but passionate would have been a better word choice in my opinion.

Radagast · Nov 12, 2018

Sounds to me like you need to find a new church. And get some serious marriage counselling.

Danielwright2311 · Nov 12, 2018

Sure, A good example would be to forgive and forget, love and not regret, lead with love and truth. Lets things go easily and dont get upset or frustrated about he said she said story's that do nothing to you but upset you.

Go to your wife and tell her you love her and you love the church also but you would rather not hear these things as they hurt you in a way.

Even if you know they talk about you treat them with love and understanding.

DamianWarS · Nov 12, 2018

your wife might be right that you don't understand the context but if that's the truth than it would seem she also does not understand the context as she is using them against you. We can talk about people when they are not present and there isn't inherently anything wrong with this but it's when we do so in a way that has a negative impact on them than it become wrong or deceitful. After all you're talking about your wife right now asking for advice, and she may be doing the same thing, are you doing it with the wrong focus, maybe for return fire in the arguments? Maybe for honest advice? Your wife may be asking our of sincerity too.

Since it is your wife that is engaging in these conversations perhaps you should talk to her about it first and ask her to defend and respect you and not use what is said against you. This seems to be the root of the issue because i'm sure you care less about what your pastor's wife thinks of you than what your wife thinks of you. But does she have a point? Are you spiritual militant? and could you be more spiritual free? if so perhaps you could partner with your wife (what a novel concept in a marriage!) to work on respect to you and at the same time you could maybe take some feedback from her and steps to show you care about what she desires for you. If you both agree on steps going forward instead of using ammunition against each other you can use your agreements to keep each in check, not for ill purpose but for gain. and if you agree on something follow through, your are the spiritual leader of your household so if no one takes the first step it is your job to start.

Yarddog · Nov 12, 2018

It sounds like you need some external counseling, away from your church, to find out if she may be making unfounded claims.

BlessedVegan · Nov 12, 2018

I would be angry. I would expect your wife to defend you at church. And that fact that she’s using this as ammunition against you is bothersome. And the fact that preachers wife is saying you take church too seriously. It’s all just crazy.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 12, 2018

There are two things going on that are wrong. One, the pastor and his wife are talking badly about you behind your back. That is wrong. If they have a problem, they ought to come to you directly. Second, your wife is repeating this. Now my guess is that she is hurt that they say bad things about you to her. I would be if our pastor and/or his wife would say bad things about my husand to me.

Now that is what is wrong in principle. Pardon me if I evaluate what is said rather dryly without emotion. It does not mean I don't feel for you but feelings will not help us think about the matter.Here is my perception of what is actually said.

I find it really odd that a PASTOR and his wife would think anyone in their congregation is taking church too seriously since she gets her living from people taking church seriously. If people took church very lightly and came only now and again and gave only now and again, she would face some serious financial challenges and very personally. So why criticize the source of your income?

It seems to me that you must be taking Christ more seriously then that wife does and it sounds more like jealously. So take it as a compliment. You take Christ too seriously. Sounds different than you take "church" too seriously, doesn't it? Now as to the pastor's slander, what exactly does he want you not to believe or be militant about? I don't know you and cannot say. I mean are you insisting Jesus is coming in the next 10 years and anyone who does not think this is off? That I would admit is militant.

But are you insisting we obey the teachings of Christ in loving others as we love ourselves? Does you wife think your beliefs are militant? What in particular? Do they say? This only you can say. There are those who are militant about matters that arise not from scripture but from their own emotional need. But then if a believer insists on forgiving others or praying or readng the Bible and memorizing scripture, well, that is a part of Christianity and yes, one is not going be liberal on those points without losing something in their relationship with Christ.

What should you do? Well, you could talk to the pastor and his wife and tell them to stop telling your wife bad things about you. IT is making the marriage difficult, it is unchristlike (quote the scripture about going to the person when there is a problem), it is gossip, and this needs to stop today. She might not like it because they will know that she passed on the information. On the other hand, she does not have to hear from them negative things. So you could tell them that they are not to put your wife in the position of having to hear them slander her husband. Defend her against them. Frankly speaking, even the atheists I know do not criticize a spouse to the other spouse no matter what they think. WHen my friends have criticzed their own spouse to me I listen in silence and never agree. They love that man so I am not going to agree that he is (insert slander here.) That is not for me to say true or not true.

So I think you need to defend your wife against the pastor and his wife attacking her by slandering you. Protect her. It hurts her that they do this is my guess and she does not want to confront them so she wants you to change so they stop slandering you. This, of course, never works if the root is jealousy. They can say positive things to her about you but the slander needs to stop. She does not deserve to hear those things about the man she loves.

And truthfully speaking, I bet she hates hearing these things but is defenseless. So go defend her in the name of Christ.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 12, 2018

I am sorry about what you are going through. Things like this can happen because it is a part of man's order and not God's order.

Please carefully check out these threads here at Christian Forums and study and read the Scripture verses in prayer.

God's Order in the Church vs Man's Order

The Pastor King (New)

Side Note:

My 2 cents worth. Do we ever see anywhere in the New Testament of God's people inviting unbelievers to come to a big building to WORSHIP God alongside believers? What fellowship does light have with darkness? Note: Pentecost does not count because it was a special and unique event that was not really about a praise and worship session that included both believers and unbelievers. Pentecost was about the beginning of the church and it was about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers were not invited to worship God alongside other believers. Fellowship was done within homes and it was only among believers. Evangelization was normally done by the apostles going on mission trips and going door to door two by two.

In the end, when I face God, I am going to have to answer to Him. Did I follow what He said within His Word? Or did I follow what men said? I would want to make sure that my life lines up with what God's Word says and not what man says. Most today do not really want to follow what God's says. They are content to do their own thing. Hence, why there are unnecessary burdens that are tied upon the backs of God's people.

corinth77777 · Nov 13, 2018

It's hard to give advice not knowing what she is referring to...But it does bother you...I would tell her, if you want Counseling honey let's go together. For usually when there is conflict it's on both sides.

Sam91 · Nov 13, 2018

I think your wife is using anything she can to gain some high ground against you.

Rejoice that if that is probably the worst thing the pastor and his wife said about you (it could also have been not said as a criticism, it may have been used to explain the difference in the way you approach things and to help her find a way to be more tolerant). Are you rigid and do you think in black and white in a lot of issues? If so, that is hard to deal with sometimes and I think might be especially hard for a wife. I am not saying you are wrong if you do, a lot of the way you think is due to the way we are raised and obviously mean well. Many of us are like that.

I do not think your paator was gossiping. He might have felt he was helping your wife. You might want to talk to him and get some counselling. He might be more careful in future not to give your wife ammunition. I also wonder why your wife doesn't think her opinion is valid. If she needs to use people's words to bolster her argument it is either that or trying to pick fault and be critical but shows that she thinks her views alone aren't enough. I do think some healthy communication needs to happen here. Pray about it.

Brian Mcnamee · Nov 13, 2018

Brian Mcnamee · Nov 13, 2018

HI as a outsider listening to your story I think there are several possibilities and and many directions this should go. There is a possibility that what they are saying is true. In which case you should pray and ask the LORD to teach you how to be a man of Christian foundation that lives them out in a Christlike way. Another idea is perhaps the pastors family were showing empathy towards your wife and did not intend to be used as leverage in an argument. One thing is sure your wife is not happy with how you are coming across and that is the main issue for you to deal with. If you think about it and let her know you understand how she feels it might open the door for you to share the foundations you are standing on. One thing I know is good Christians can disagree extremely on here and we can do so in the character of Christ. I see Dave on here and we see many issues that we totally disagree on with equally convinced persuasions we are right and Dave is always a gentleman and represents the character of Christ when expressing his errors,(LOL) I hope I am as gracious with those I oppose too. Perhaps it is in this area you lack. Religion and politics can bring out a my side vs your side mentality that can often ignore the command to be loving towards all at all times. if this is where you are failing this is where you need to find ways to stand for your beliefs and not bring in the hypocrisy of worldly envy and self seeking.

devin553344 · Nov 13, 2018

I would take it as constructive criticism like you said. There are a lot of people that take church too seriously. It may be just a stage in your religious evolution like many others. We should remember that church is the collection of people worshiping God, and people are fallible but God is not. Therefore most churches fall short of representing the true God. And it's OK that people don't represent God perfectly, we must allow in our hearts for the imperfections of people when we go to church. This will make us better servants of God.

Marriage is ordained of God and God sees it as important from what I felt of the Holy Ghost when I was married. Good luck and God bless. I hope you can just get past that issue in your marriage. Marriage is more important than churches that put a wedge in that marriage. So the priority is marriage before that church. Put church second to your marriage and perhaps that would help?

HatGuy · Nov 13, 2018

A. The pastor should not be counseling your wife. The pastors wife should.
B. I would take the pastor out for coffee and let him know that his comments are not helping your marriage. As your pastor he should be helping your marriage, not driving a possible wedge in it.
C. If he says he never made those comments or your wife took them the wrong way, (A) once again applies. He should not be meeting your wife and asking these sorts of personal questions. He should be meeting YOU and asking those questions, while his wife meets with your wife and asks those questions.

I don't understand this idea that a pastor (man) would meet with another man's wife. That's what a pastor's wife does.

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