Need Advice

[fireman1173005]

I received an email from the senior pastor of another church in nearby town. Well here is a copy of the email

Hi Brian,

I have a concern that I really need to share with you about our youth that attend and are members here at B..... I know that from time to time some of them attend where you serve on occasion, either by choice or by invitation.

There is a biblical principle that is taught by Jesus in Matthew 6:24 that applies not only to our loyalty to Jesus versus money, but to all other areas of our life as well.

Jesus said, “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Matthew 6:24

Brian when you permit youth to attend your youth group that belong to another church you are enabling them in divided loyalties. Giving them a choice that they should not have to make. According to what Jesus said, they will hate one, love the other, be loyal to one, despise the other. This is a learned behavior and when we enable this at an early age, it carries further on in life. It will one day affect their loyalties in their marriages, work, family, church, every aspect of life.

Please, let's do what's best for those youth, and teach them that if the Lord planted them in one place, that they need to bloom there.

Your friend and co-servant in Christ,


Now I understand where he is coming from to a point, although I think he is over reacting a bit. This young man was invited by a student at my church and has attended 3 Wed. nights in the past 2 months.

The following is a email from a very good friend who is also a senior pastor at his church, this is his opinion and basically mine too.

My personal opinion is that these mentioned students are only visiting with their friends once in a while at Laverty...so what is wrong with that? I would rather see kids going to church with friends than not going at all...or worse yet...being with non-christians that might help to lead them away from Jesus!!! Now if this person(persons) is attending Laverty all the time...then they need to relate that back to B..... in some fashion, such as a move of membership from B..... to Laverty or a call to the youth leader at B..... to let them know where the student is now attending.
I don't agree with the mentioned scripture text as applying to this situation...but again that is my opinion. I would point out that we have about three students from L.... First Baptist that attend our Wednesdat nite High School youth meeting after they have attended their own 30 minutes before. Again, I say 'Big Deal". I would rather have them with their Christian friends from L.... Methodist that out messing around. Thats my two cents worth buddy!!

Anyway just wondering u guys thoughts.

Brian

 

[drich0150]

This is the kind of thing is exactly what keeps me from public ministry.

If we are the body, what does it matter what we call ourselves? Isn't it the same Jesus that is served, praised, and glorified at B..... as he is at Lavarty??? In Matt 6 Jesus is Speaking about serving 2 different masters GOD and Something completely different!
Whether we serve at one building or another this student or anyone else is still serving/praising the same master!!!

That is assuming that B..... is in fact serving God and not some other master.

 

[heymikey80]

We're a small group in the shadows of many large groups. Some of our kids go to other churches. I've found I love the kids who come to my church. They are immense, and fun to be around.

They're not our kids. They're God's kids. As long as the Spirit of God is growing on them, I'm overjoyed.

I've never begrudged the Spirit's ministry to a child. Children often look for the place where they're cared for. As long as it's that, then great, care away. Love them to a fault. Be relevant to their lives. Christianity isn't a competition sport among teams.

If the pastor would like to confront someone with something morally substantial, have him confront the child. This situation doesn't involve "two-masters". Aren't you both following One Master? Unless one of you is not following the same Master, then you're both serving the same Master, and neither should be a problem.

I'm also an elder in a Presbyterian church. If this "two masters" issue were problematic, it would be problematic for more than one elder to lead a church. But that's false, as the New Testament demonstrates that multiple elders were appointed in individual churches.

Would I like for each church body to serve and grow each child well? I sure would. But that's not for me to establish in another church.

That's for the pastor.

And there is a specific danger here. The child may be trying to avoid something "less fun" and stick around activities that are "more fun". The kid may also simply be trying to avoid some much tougher or "higher-reach" that a church -- and maybe God -- it pointing him to. It's possible. It happens. But if a kid is growing in another youth group, boy, I would be jumping for joy. It's happened to some of my kids before. And I've often been relieved and joyful that they're being fed spiritually where they need it, and for things where we couldn't quite cover.

I'll be honest. If I received that letter from the Presbyterian church where some of my YG kids attend, or if I received that letter from the Catholic church where one of my YG kids attends, or if I received that letter from the agnostic gathering where one of my YG kids is a member -- I would be more concerned about what the kid is going through. Yeah, I might be concerned for my ministry -- for about three seconds. But I'm more interested in the kid. Preach the word, openly commend those who are in authority by God's gift, and don't bother with cherry-picking your kids. Look carefully, and there's beauty in every one of them. They are all worthy of your love -- more worthy than you are of God's love. So love them. Rejoice with their joy, sorrow with their sorrows, probe their depths, and grow them. Most of all, love them to the point of helping the Spirit in their redemption.

 

[fireman1173005]

thank you for your replies and input

 

[BrotherAtArms]

If I may have some input

I agree with the second letter, and your opinion, that at least a kid is going to church. I think the first person took the texts out of context, it's not what Jesus was talking about. It's all God in the end, and as long as a person is being fed and is given the opportunity to serve then who cares how many churches they go to?
Church is important, but in the end, it's up to the believer what church they'll attend each week, or even each day. I'm a youth pastor at one church, and various Tuesdays I attend 2 different churches. Like I said, in the end, it's all about God, not which church it is.

 

[fireman1173005]

Wanted to let everyone know what I replied to this pastor, I felt I needed to let him know how I felt on this subject.

I apologize for the amount of time it has taken me to respond to your email but I wanted to take plenty of time to pray and think about what you said, and how I would respond. I would assume you are talking about N..... First of all, N.... was invited by K...., not by Kara or myself. K... is a member of Laverty Baptist Church and enjoys inviting her friends from time to time. There are a few of her friends who have came with us before that I actively recruit. For example, one girl who as went a few times does not attend church anywhere nor do her parents. Her parents own a bar in town and I know that she does not get the spiritual support she needs from her parents. I would never actively recruit a student who I know is a member or a regular attender of another church. K.... knows that any of her friends are welcome to come to church with us or to any of our activities. Unless the student is disruptive or something like that I see no problem with letting them attend, after all it's not my church, it is God's church. N.... is a good friends of K....'s and another girl who attends Laverty and I believe that is the reason he attends. One young lady who attends Laverty, was saved last year at Falls Creek, and I had the opportunity to baptize her and her little brother this spring. She started coming to Laverty because of a friend who is a member at Laverty. In the last couple months they have not been getting along so this young lady has been attending First Baptist in Anadarko with another friend, actually more than she has been at Laverty. I had the opportunity to visit with her when she and a friend stopped by to visit with Kara and I a few weeks ago at our house. I told her we had been missing her at church and she was always welcome at Laverty and that I understood her situation and was fine with her attending First Baptist. The spiritual growth of these youth means so much to me, not only the spiritual growth of the youth at Laverty but also the youth of B..... I don't want to train the youth at Laverty or anywhere else to grow up to be the kind of person who changes their church membership like they change their shirts. But I would rather them attend a church where they will get fed spiritually than to stay at home because of friend problems, etc. Kara and I don't attend church because of our friends, but we are talking about teenagers who are not spiritually mature. If I can't keep them in church, Laverty, First Baptist, B...., etc, they will never have the opportunity to become spiritually mature. I would have a problem if I did not think they were getting spiritually fed. I have no doubt they would get what they need at B..... and First Baptist. One thing we have to remember is these kids are from a different generation. Unfortunately they have different values, ethics and even morals than when I was a teenager. I think we have to approach these kids from a different angle than when I went to church. Take me for example, my parents took me to church, it wasn't even an option until I started working and had an excuse not to go such as I had to work. I would say about 80% of our regular youth attenders at Laverty have parents who don't attend church regularly. Their parents could actually care less if they come. These youth are very special to me because they want to attend. We play games from time to time and I try to make the lessons interesting so the students want to attend. And as far as permitting them to attend, why would I not? If someone attends Bethel that you know is a member of another church do you ask them to leave?

I don't see how this will cause any kind of problem later in life, nor do I see how they will hate another church. If one of the students at Laverty goes to another church, especially a Baptist church, and feels more comfortable attending there then I say they should attend there. It's only their decision where they will attend. We are their spiritual shepherds not their parents, it is between them and their parents where they attend church. Take M... A....t for example, His parents started attending B.... for their children's best interest. They wanted their children to be at a church where their was a youth group that could provide the spiritual nourishment they needed. A very wise choice if you ask me, they put aside their personal interest for the betterment of their family. I think God has something great in store for M.... if he will let the Lord use him. But my question to you is, did you try to talk them out of attending Bethel, after all they were members of Virginia Avenue?

When I saw your usage of Mathew 6:24 I was very surprised. I had never thought of this verse in that way and I still don't. I have looked in all of my Bible commentaries and have only found this verse speaking of things that are being idolized. I sought the input of my pastor and another very good friend of mine who is a pastor and neither of them agreed with your usage of this verse. I even polled a few other pastors, which I withheld your name from, and not one of them agreed with your usage of this verse. It almost seems as you are using this verse in a different way than Jesus intended for it to be used, possibly for your own benefit and argument. While thinking about this a verse came to mind from Romans 16:17-18 "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people." I believe we serve the same God. And some times while serving Him we need to think about what is best for His kingdom, not just our ministry.

I understand that sometimes in churches there are problems with attendance and this may be your concern. This reminds me of a key difference in the fences around various countries. Some are set up to limit immigration and others are there to slow down emigration. The best way to loose members of your flock is to forbid them from going anywhere else. Now I realize that all church's have problems. As a shepherd of a church it is impossible to please everyone, and there are always the people who love to keep the pot stirred up just because they can. But it seems to me that a church that is loosing members or at least is having trouble with attendance needs to look at why that is and they need to take action to correct it to the best of their ability. Sometimes change is good although it can be extremely tough to do in a congregation that is set in their ways.

When I received this email from you I was hurt. I want to tell you that I have always respected you and your spiritual guidance, I just don't agree with you on this subject. I hope that I did not insult you as I view you as a friend and I hope this does not affect that relationship. I will be praying for you, your ministry and B.... and I hope you can see where I am coming from on this subject. I look forward to your reply on this as I would like to know your opinion on my opinion.

Brian

 

[BrotherAtArms]

Sounds like it is being handled well so far, only time will tell his reaction. But I believe you got it right, stay strong and don't allow yourself to be pulled in any other direction. God be with you

 

[lace]

Hi
Jesus says to all-COME AS YOU ARE!
I help with young youth at my chruch and there are many young teens that bring their friends along....
The thing is we go by the spirit.....and who ever Jesus brings in the doors we except them....remembering that these children belong to the lord.
The youth dont belong to us..they are Gods....we dont care if they dont belong to a church!...
How are we surpose to reach out to the children-If we have rulse and regurlations,saying that they cannot come if they dont belong to our church,this is not right,and if we did do this-we wouldnt have any young teens comming.

The children are drawen to us-because they see Jesus in the leaders.
Please be very careful in who you listen too...God or Man?
And most of the teens that do come to youth-come from disfuctional familys-and we love them to bits
I can share with you so much more about this subject...but my avice is to just carry on doing what your doing......Get those young one`s of the streets and preach the gospel of salvation & forgiveness.....this is what its all about...saving souls,and raising up strong leaders-worriers for God.

Stand strong and follow Jesus,dont be a afraid of MAN....
Disregard the letter,because I have never heard of such a thing,the enermy will try and destroy things of God.
STAY CLOSE TO JESUS

And the leaders that help with the youth -one comes from another church and she is also a yourth leader thier,and some of the children do belong to a church and some dont go at all.....and yes thier parents do allow them to attend youth
Who are we to say that they are not welcome...(because they aready have a church or because they are not christains or their parents dont believe and have`nt a faith.
Our loyaltys are with Jesus Christ...not a church...which is a building..
Dont get me wrong here...I respect the church,but I stand by Jesus Christ

 

[lace]

It sounds like your on to it......your be fine
hugs-lov
sister in christ