Nearly every voting bloc moved to the right in this election

rjs330 · Nov 11, 2024

mark46 said:
OK, yes schools indoctrinate students in the accumulated history and culture of the country because they believe in the foundational ideologies of the country.

They are to teach the students the history, mathematics, science, English, reading and culture. Not indoctrinate them.

mark46 said:
If teachers choose to teach that this is not a racist country, IMO, they should be fired for non-performance.

If a teacher taught this IS a racist country tgey should be fired. If they taught this country participated in a world wide phenomenon called slavery then I would approve. If they taught that in the South Jum Crow laws existed along with white supremecy and the KKK I approve. If they taught that America IS a racist country I would want them dismissed.

mark46 said:
I would say the same if they taught that unvaccinated student should be allowed to attend public schools.

I would say they have a right to believe whatever they want. If they taught the kids in their classrooms that unvaccinated kids shouldn't be there they should be dismissed.

mark46 said:
They should be required to teach the consensus truths as is currently believed the scientific and other academic communities.

They should be required to teach that scientific consensus is not scientific truth. That theory is not truth. I'm okay with saying that it's our best understanding at this time, but we could be wrong. That we don't really KNOW.

mark46 said:
scientific and other academic communities. They are not free to teach outright falsehood like Trump won the 2020 election or that Pence had the legal right to refuse to certify the election.

I agree.

mark46 said:
Democrats lost many votes because of their positions on sexual orientation and identity and how the schools should treat these issues.

Schools shoild leave this subject alone. They aren't properly trained.

mark46 said:
The methods and indoctrination by college teaching is simply a travesty. When I entered college in the mid-sixties, the faculties were often very liberal. That has always been true. Now, it has gone way beyond simply teaching far left propaganda and calling it truth. No debate is allowed.

Totally agree.

mark46 said:
And, of curse, since the vast majority of teamers and academics are Democrats, we bear much of the blame.

Agreed.

Fantine · Nov 11, 2024

BPPLEE said:
They inadvertently contributed to what they were trying to prevent .
It was the appearance that Trump was being unfairly prosecuted that gave him the nomination

The operative word being "appearance" to people predisposed to see the Victor as victim.
When your position has zero facts to back that up, successfully playing the victim obviously can be astonishingly effective.

BPPLEE · Nov 11, 2024

Fantine said:
The operative word being "appearance" to people predisposed to see the Victor as victim.
When your position has zero facts to back that up, successfully playing the victim obviously can be astonishingly effective.

The cases are all falling apart. It may have been more than an appearance

RDKirk · Nov 11, 2024

rjs330 said:
They are to teach the students the history, mathematics, science, English, reading and culture. Not indoctrinate them.

If a teacher taught this IS a racist country tgey should be fired. If they taught this country participated in a world wide phenomenon called slavery then I would approve. If they taught that in the South Jum Crow laws existed along with white supremecy and the KKK I approve. If they taught that America IS a racist country I would want them dismissed.

I would say they have a right to believe whatever they want. If they taught the kids in their classrooms that unvaccinated kids shouldn't be there they should be dismissed.

They should be required to teach that scientific consensus is not scientific truth. That theory is not truth. I'm okay with saying that it's our best understanding at this time, but we could be wrong. That we don't really KNOW.

I agree.

Schools shoild leave this subject alone. They aren't properly trained.

Totally agree.

Agreed.

It would be correct to teach that racism is still an issue that is being rectified in America, with great progress having been made since 1965.

The thing to beware is any teaching that asserts a conflict in the United States between a class of Oppressors and a class of Oppressed. That's a key earmark of Marxist Critical Theory, and it comes to no good end.

mark46 · Nov 11, 2024

rjs330 said:
I would say they have a right to believe whatever they want. If they taught the kids in their classrooms that unvaccinated kids shouldn't be there they should be dismissed.

mark46 · Nov 11, 2024

The society has every right to protect its children from polio, whooping cough, measles and lots of other diseases.

Individuals have the freedom to not have their children be vaccinated. However, the society has every right to insist that unvaccinated children not be in the schools, unless the school district wants to pay to have separate facilities, classrooms and teachers for the unvaccinated.

This is a matter of law (and common sense). Of course, individual communities can vote to ignore the advice of the medical and scientific community. We do have a democracy. Voters can choose to expose their children to polio and other diseases. Children have no national right to be protected from polio.

Fantine · Nov 11, 2024

BPPLEE said:
The cases are all falling apart. It may have been more than an appearance

As someone who believes the victim over enough abundant evidence to fill up an 18 wheeler, your answer is what I expected.
BTW, Judge Merchan can choose to give the convicted man a suspended sentence, but there isn't a soul in NYS or NYC government who will ever pardon him.
They can be tremendously proud of letting truth triumph over $100 million in lawyers and a massive disinformation campaign in right wing media.
I am so proud of my home state for bringing this criminal to justice.

Fervent · Nov 11, 2024

mark46 said:
I strongly disagree.

We should not make believe that the situation is somehow worse because we have come very far with regard to overt racism (and sexism for that matter) since 1948. We shouldn't in any way equate the MAGA good old days of the 50's and today. All of us are much better situations. Our changes in the treatment of women, blacks, and homosexuals have been truly impressive, and most obvious in the changes in the granting and enforcement of legal rights.

I agree, there have been great strides made and the situation has improved. But what's left to do is more difficult to deal with precisely because it doesn't involve prevalent negative attitudes, but self-perpetuating structures that create disadvantages. The problems are far harder to see for those outside of marginalized groups, and the combination of the real challenges and the complete denial of those challenges gives the perception that the negative attitudes are still widespread.

BPPLEE · Nov 12, 2024

Fantine said:
As someone who believes the victim over enough abundant evidence to fill up an 18 wheeler, your answer is what I expected.
BTW, Judge Merchan can choose to give the convicted man a suspended sentence, but there isn't a soul in NYS or NYC government who will ever pardon him.
They can be tremendously proud of letting truth triumph over $100 million in lawyers and a massive disinformation campaign in right wing media.
I am so proud of my home state for bringing this criminal to justice.

Selective prosecution and over charging just made Trump more popular

Chesterton · Nov 12, 2024

mark46 said:
Congrats on staying home and allowing others to choose for you.

Well I didn't say I was proud of my decision, I was just being honest.

RDKirk · Nov 12, 2024

Fervent said:
I agree, there have been great strides made and the situation has improved. But what's left to do is more difficult to deal with precisely because it doesn't involve prevalent negative attitudes, but self-perpetuating structures that create disadvantages. The problems are far harder to see for those outside of marginalized groups, and the combination of the real challenges and the complete denial of those challenges gives the perception that the negative attitudes are still widespread.

Those are economic and cultural issues, however, from a variety of view points--some of them self-inflicted--and shouldn't be taught as continued racism.

probinson · Nov 12, 2024

mark46 said:
The society has every right to protect its children from polio, whooping cough, measles and lots of other diseases.

Individuals have the freedom not to have their children not be vaccinated. However, the society has every right to keep insist that unvaccinated children not be in the schools, unless the school district wants to pay to have separate facilities, classrooms and teachers for the unvaccinated.

This is a matter of law (and common sense). Of course, individual communities can vote to ignore the advice of the medical and scientific community. We do have a democracy. Voters can choose to expose their children to polio and other diseases. Children have no national right to be protected from polio.

This is a weird stance on its face. If vaccines protect people, how do people not getting vaccines pose a threat to those who choose to be vaccinated? Logically, they'd be a threat to other unvaccinated people, who are, as you say, choosing to not get vaccinated knowing the risks it carries to them. But when you say that those who are vaccinated are now at risk because of people not getting vaccinated, you're kind of straight up admitting that the vaccine isn't quite as protective as you're implying.

I'm not anti-vax by any means. Both of my kids had all of the required vaccines to attend school. But if COVID taught me anything, it's just how corrupt pharmaceutical companies are and how complicit government agencies are in furthering their dubious claims. The government overstepped in mandating vaccines and requiring vaccination cards for a vaccination that was completely unnecessary, especially if someone had been infected and recovered from COVID. They abandoned science in favor of profits, and the result has been a complete decimation of trust in public health. The CDC and the FDA are in dire need of reform.

BCP1928 · Nov 12, 2024

BPPLEE said:
The cases are all falling apart. It may have been more than an appearance

No, they are being shut down because he is President and thus immune from prosecution. That will happen whether there is any substance to the cases or not.

BPPLEE · Nov 12, 2024

BCP1928 said:
No, they are being shut down because he is President and thus immune from prosecution. That will happen whether there is any substance to the cases or not.

That has no bearing on the state charges. They were falling apart before he was elected.

SuperCow · Nov 12, 2024

JSRG said:
Your claim is inaccurate. There are still about 95% of the votes counted, which--by the calculations I gave in my prior post--has about 8 millions votes outstanding.

Now, it's true most are from California; California is 72% done according to the election reports, and with about 12.4 million votes counted, that leaves about 5 million votes from there. Even with California favoring Harris, this will result in an increase for both.

Comparisons of the total number of votes in 2024 for the candidates compared with 2020 are basically pointless to do until the final vote is actually in for 2024.

I'll update the numbers when the votes are certified. At the moment they are only going up by about 100K per day. I think that will take his totals past 75M, but not 76M. Harris totals will close the gap by a narrow amount, but in the end she'll still be a few million behind in the individual votes.

Also, there's 5-6M more people in the country than there were last election, so the number that stayed home that voted last time is probably higher than the 10M I mentioned in 2020.

BCP1928 · Nov 12, 2024

rjs330 said:
They are to teach the students the history, mathematics, science, English, reading and culture. Not indoctrinate them.

If a teacher taught this IS a racist country tgey should be fired. If they taught this country participated in a world wide phenomenon called slavery then I would approve. If they taught that in the South Jum Crow laws existed along with white supremecy and the KKK I approve. If they taught that America IS a racist country I would want them dismissed.

I would say they have a right to believe whatever they want. If they taught the kids in their classrooms that unvaccinated kids shouldn't be there they should be dismissed.

They should be required to teach that scientific consensus is not scientific truth. That theory is not truth. I'm okay with saying that it's our best understanding at this time, but we could be wrong. That we don't really KNOW.

I agree.

Schools shoild leave this subject alone. They aren't properly trained.

Totally agree.

Agreed.

In other words, You are not apposed to indoctrination, so long as it is indoctrination you approve of.

rjs330 · Nov 12, 2024

Fervent said:
but self-perpetuating structures that create disadvantages.

A lot of self -perpetuating structures involve cultural issues within the black community.

There aren't any structural issues outside the community that create disadvantages because they gave been torn down.

Individual racism still exists. Hispanics have racism against blacks and blacks have racism against Hispanics. Racism on an individual level exists. It always will.

Fervent said:
The problems are far harder to see for those outside of marginalized groups, and the combination of the real challenges and the complete denial of those challenges gives the perception that the negative attitudes are still widespread.

No one is denying that there are challenges. We all have challenges to face. It's harder for a poor person that it is for a rich person. Wealth provides ease. The self perpetuating issues within the black community itself is holding them back. Black people are just as smart and talented as anyone else. And if they are living in these inner cities in poverty it's not easy to get out. But not impossible. But if they continue to perpetuate the issues there, it just makes it harder. They are in desperate need of new leaders who will work to break those cultural chains that are holding them back in the inner cities. Cause once they are out they do better.

rjs330 · Nov 12, 2024

BCP1928 said:
In other words, You are not apposed to indoctrination, so long as it is indoctrination you approve of.

We need the truth and facts taught. That is not indoctrination. Not ideology.

RDKirk · Nov 12, 2024

rjs330 said:
A lot of self -perpetuating structures involve cultural issues within the black community.

There aren't any structural issues outside the community that create disadvantages because they gave been torn down.

Individual racism still exists. Hispanics have racism against blacks and blacks have racism against Hispanics. Racism on an individual level exists. It always will.

No one is denying that there are challenges. We all have challenges to face. It's harder for a poor person that it is for a rich person. Wealth provides ease. The self perpetuating issues within the black community itself is holding them back. Black people are just as smart and talented as anyone else. And if they are living in these inner cities in poverty it's not easy to get out. But not impossible. But if they continue to perpetuate the issues there, it just makes it harder. They are in desperate need of new leaders who will work to break those cultural chains that are holding them back in the inner cities. Cause once they are out they do better.

Unfortunately, we have few black leaders. I think I've given my theory about that before. There are chiefs and there are shamans. The role of the chief is to direct the people to daily actions that enhance their ability to thrive and survive, to organize them, and to hold them accountable. The role of the shaman is to entreat the "higher powers" for a benign environment.

We have a lot of black shamans (which includes all black politicians). We have very few black chiefs. The closest we have to chiefs on the national level are Nation of Islam ("Black Muslims"); they are the only ones who attempt to direct the people to daily actions that enhance their ability to thrive and survive, to organize them, and to hold them accountable.

RDKirk · Nov 12, 2024

rjs330 said:
We need the truth and facts taught. That is not indoctrination. Not ideology.

Neo-Marxist Critical Theory says that your truth and facts are merely the tools of the Oppressor and must be discarded so that we are "not held back by what has gone before."

Nearly every voting bloc moved to the right in this election

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